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Foreign Signs? #420384
Wed Jun 05 2013 08:38 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 08:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,675
Devils Lake, ND---USA
K W FRITH Offline OP
Veteran Member
K W FRITH  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,675
Devils Lake, ND---USA
Foreign signs have always troubled me and partly because of my lack of knowledge on them and also because of the large influx of bogus signs from third world countries!
Thus my interest in the sudden appearance of several here on Old Gas!
I had a call this morning from an interested party that gave me a link to the previous owner of all of these signs and I was surprised to see that they had all originated from the same seller in Argentina?
I have "NO IDEA" as to the authenticity of these signs, whatsoever, but when they junp from a seller in Argentina to the pages of Old Gas, with no explanation as to their origination---I feel the membership should be notified and allowed to make their own decisions!

Ebay#251284155380 with seller jgoff2484

EbaY#121081167095 with seller guidoapothecary from Argentina

Same sign and seems to be the same place the other foreign signs have come from.---You be the judge!

Link to past sales for guidoapothecary---
http://www.ebay.com/csc/guidoapothecary/m.html?nma=true&item=121104951769&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&_sop=3&si=pnG0DG8Up%252B5dnBU8gjtnyEYtGEA%253D&orig_cvip=true&hash=item1c326ae9d9&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc


Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: K W FRITH] #420391
Wed Jun 05 2013 09:23 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 09:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,818
Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Dave's Garage Offline
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Dave's Garage  Offline
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Posts: 8,818
Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Lets start by making it easy to view these signs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251284155380?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121081167095?

Kevin, like yourself; I to am skeptical about these signs. I consider myself an experienced sign collector. I rely on my years of cumulative experience collecting automobiles and such when I state that in my opinion this sign is without any doubt a fake. It can be conclusively concluded that, that is the same sign in both of those listings.

The chipping is not consistent with normal wear & tear but rather appears to support the process of an intentional accelerated, artificially aged process. The formation and coloration of the rust again are consistent with an artificial age process rather than a natural formation over 40-60 years.

The backs also seem to indicate a sloppy application of the porcelain to overstate it's age and the rack marks also seem exaggerated. Old original signs had rack marks but were not that sloppy in appearance and I seldom find rust on the back of a sign that was hung. Only original porcelain signs that have rust on the back are ones that were found buried.

This sign came from a source country of fakes from a known forgerer/manufacturer of these fakes, with a well documented history of selling fakes on e-Bay. Shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. If it smells like, looks like and feels like *****. THEN IT IS *****!

Do you go and buy new furniture from a person selling brand new merchandise out of the trunk of his car in a store parking lot? No, because you know it is stolen. Same logic applied here would clearly lead an informed and prudent individual of average intelligence to clearly and without doubt conclude that this sign is a fake.

I am saddened to note that this ***** is peddled on this site. Flakes selling fakes for profit at the expense of an entire hobby should not be tolerated anywhere!

Last edited by Dave's Garage; Wed Jun 05 2013 09:35 AM.

Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Dave's Garage] #420398
Wed Jun 05 2013 09:47 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 09:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,604
La Porte, In
T
tomzcollectiblez Offline
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tomzcollectiblez  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,604
La Porte, In
Kevin and Dave I agree 100%!!!
I feel foreign signs being sold should be stated as such JUST like repo's or fantasy items...
Also if your going to buy from a known repo seller, then dont try selling it here WITHOUT letting people know its questionable origin...The truth always comes out eventually...

Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: tomzcollectiblez] #420400
Wed Jun 05 2013 09:53 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 09:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,810
Oklahoma
texacokie Offline
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texacokie  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,810
Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: tomzcollectiblez
Kevin and Dave I agree 100%!!!
I feel foreign signs being sold should be stated as such JUST like repo's or fantasy items...
Also if your going to buy from a known repo seller, then dont try selling it here WITHOUT letting people know its questionable origin...The truth always comes out eventually...


Agreed if it is a repop represent it as so. There are too many collectors who will bust ya if you try and pass this ***** off as original.

Last edited by texacokie; Wed Jun 05 2013 09:56 AM.

I am always looking for anything Texaco or Oklahoma oil and gas company's, also I am a newbie at seeking globes.
Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: texacokie] #420402
Wed Jun 05 2013 10:03 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,292
Peoria, IL
BryceG Offline
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BryceG  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,292
Peoria, IL
jgoff is a shady seller... that has been known on OldGas since I joined earlier this year. the only thing that has changed is now he is actually hooking some people. all of his items have some sort of issue with them, whether its foreign, wrong markings, etc.


Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

Follow Me & my Finds on Instagram: @bryce_gillespie
Collection & Items for Sale: www.OnceAlwaysPetro.com
Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: BryceG] #420407
Wed Jun 05 2013 10:17 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 10:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 444
Kansas
5
57CameoGuy Offline
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57CameoGuy  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
5
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 444
Kansas
I have had no dealings with this seller, here or on ebay. I thought it kinda strange to see these foreign signs cropping up with so many of them being mass produced south of the border. As a "junior" member I thought I would leave it to the verterans to deal with. Now that it has been brought up, I gotta ask why are any pieces of questionable background allowed here at all? Wouldn't it be nice to have a "safe haven" ?

Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: 57CameoGuy] #420409
Wed Jun 05 2013 10:24 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 10:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
I personally have had some questions about the originality of a couple of the signs that have been offered here...

That is why I contacted the Historian of the Chevron Corporation, the "Parent Company" of Texaco... To see if such signage is mentioned or shown in their Corporate Archives?....

Mr. John Harper is the Historian for the Chevron Oil Corporation...

I asked him, if he was familiar with the Texaco-Vacuum sign(s) posted For Sale on Oldgas:

Here are his replies as of yesterday:

May 16th 2013:

"I would have to research this, given I have never seen such a joint sign. I am not stating a partnership did not exist. Just need to confirm."

June 4th 2013:

"I have not come across such signs. Have checked other sources, too, including Ball's book on Texaco collectibles. Also checked the Texaco Star magazine, which goes back to 1914 or so. No luck. Now, that is not to say they did not exist, especially if there was a partnership. But such brands appearing on the same finished signs have not shown up. Early stations did sell multiple brands from various companies, but the signs were separate. I will keep looking."



As of today; I have also sent a request to EXXON/Mobil asking that their Historian contact me and/or Mr. Harper... I will ask if they show such signage?


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: BryceG] #420410
Wed Jun 05 2013 10:29 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 10:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 466
Belgium, Liege
Nucky Offline
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Nucky  Offline
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Posts: 466
Belgium, Liege
Originally Posted By: baileybee
jgoff is a shady seller... that has been known on OldGas since I joined earlier this year. the only thing that has changed is now he is actually hooking some people. all of his items have some sort of issue with them, whether its foreign, wrong markings, etc.


be carefull last time I posted a message like that I got a message from Jim the webmaster asking me to stop harrassing member....

I think like you that those signs are fantasy, there are so many fakes around now that if you want to be sure to buy originals stay with well known ones with dates and signatures on them which prove the authenticity

by the way if you have any doubt about European signs I can help you, most of them were signed and dated so they are easy to distinguish from reproductions

Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Bob Richards] #420414
Wed Jun 05 2013 10:53 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 10:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,378
Fredericktown Missouri
47reo-travis Offline
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47reo-travis  Offline
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Posts: 1,378
Fredericktown Missouri
Bob , it will be very interesting to see what the historian of Exxon has to say.Kind of has me curious now!


I like SINCLAIR and old American made stuff ... No china items.
Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: 47reo-travis] #420421
Wed Jun 05 2013 11:38 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 11:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,849
Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
L
Loyd Pierce Offline
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Loyd Pierce  Offline
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Posts: 1,849
Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
Been wondering when this was going to blow. As other poster being of limited time in the hobby I thought I best stay out of it. I have felt for a couple of days that Oldgas was a bad place for these signs to land,but the fees are so low here right.


*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*
Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Loyd Pierce] #420424
Wed Jun 05 2013 11:48 AM
Wed Jun 05 2013 11:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 263
Brantford,Ontario, Canada
T
TC Offline
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TC  Offline
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T
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 263
Brantford,Ontario, Canada
I myself totally agree with Kevin and everyone else. When I first saw these signs on this site I new they were phonies and the seller even admitted they were from Argentina, funny all these signs look good on one side and the backs aways look like thet were in a bone yard for ever. Ted

Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: TC] #420435
Wed Jun 05 2013 01:09 PM
Wed Jun 05 2013 01:09 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,468
Indianapolis IN USA
bustermonty Offline
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bustermonty  Offline
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Posts: 1,468
Indianapolis IN USA
According to the Michelin book the Michelin sign is correct and from Argentina. Most of the others, I'm not so sure. I agree fake, fantasy and repop(I like the word repop) have no place on oldgas without full disclosure.
You have to think there were signs in Argentina. Need a legit collector from that country to shed a little light on the subject.

Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: bustermonty] #420446
Wed Jun 05 2013 01:53 PM
Wed Jun 05 2013 01:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,811
South of St. Louis, MO USA
Oldgas Offline
Moderator
Oldgas  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,811
South of St. Louis, MO USA
I don't know much about foreign signs. I have a few French Canadian, European and Australian signs and cans in my collection. I feel comfortable with their authenticity. I have passed on most other foreign signs because of doubts, price, condition and shipping issues. Kind of like it is with any sign from anywhere.

The foreign signs currently offered by a member of Oldgas.com Shop Talk have not been proven to me they are reproduction, or not. They do look like they are not made to USA manufacturing and logo standards. Could be back then the local sign companies didn't do a "world class" job on making them.

For me personally, signs that have the rusty porcelain backs and appear to be artificially aged make me uncomfortable enough to stay away. But it is not enough for me to label them as repro with any certainty because I don't know what a real foreign sign is supposed to look like, or even if there ever was a real one like that.

If you don't have sufficient knowledge about a class of items, or you're not comfortable because of doubts, do some serious thinking before you drop serious money on an item. Foreign or not. Just sayin'.


Jim "Oldgas" Potts
Your host and moderator
Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Oldgas] #420451
Wed Jun 05 2013 02:07 PM
Wed Jun 05 2013 02:07 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 131
Pennsylvania
Piokat81 Offline
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Piokat81  Offline
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 131
Pennsylvania
First. how fun would it be to be a historian for one of these companies?

Second this is why it's a bad idea to buy foreign signs. I don't understand people's fetish with them. Stay away they are bad news.

Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Oldgas] #420453
Wed Jun 05 2013 02:21 PM
Wed Jun 05 2013 02:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 826
Mangum, OK USA
6
66phillips Offline
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66phillips  Offline
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6
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 826
Mangum, OK USA
The Texaco sign has a makers marker on it, the seller just didn't shoot a close-up of it. I think we should let the guy get up, before we kick him again. I've had lots of foreign signs through the years. Like American Mfgs, they didn't mark all of them. I can't compare any seller to the known foreign seller of American brand repops

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