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#420384 - Wed Jun 05 2013 10:38 AM Foreign Signs?
K W FRITH Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
Foreign signs have always troubled me and partly because of my lack of knowledge on them and also because of the large influx of bogus signs from third world countries!
Thus my interest in the sudden appearance of several here on Old Gas!
I had a call this morning from an interested party that gave me a link to the previous owner of all of these signs and I was surprised to see that they had all originated from the same seller in Argentina?
I have "NO IDEA" as to the authenticity of these signs, whatsoever, but when they junp from a seller in Argentina to the pages of Old Gas, with no explanation as to their origination---I feel the membership should be notified and allowed to make their own decisions!

Ebay#251284155380 with seller jgoff2484

EbaY#121081167095 with seller guidoapothecary from Argentina

Same sign and seems to be the same place the other foreign signs have come from.---You be the judge!

Link to past sales for guidoapothecary---
http://www.ebay.com/csc/guidoapothecary/m.html?nma=true&item=121104951769&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&_sop=3&si=pnG0DG8Up%252B5dnBU8gjtnyEYtGEA%253D&orig_cvip=true&hash=item1c326ae9d9&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc
_________________________
Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133

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Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#420391 - Wed Jun 05 2013 11:23 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: K W FRITH]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Lets start by making it easy to view these signs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251284155380?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121081167095?

Kevin, like yourself; I to am skeptical about these signs. I consider myself an experienced sign collector. I rely on my years of cumulative experience collecting automobiles and such when I state that in my opinion this sign is without any doubt a fake. It can be conclusively concluded that, that is the same sign in both of those listings.

The chipping is not consistent with normal wear & tear but rather appears to support the process of an intentional accelerated, artificially aged process. The formation and coloration of the rust again are consistent with an artificial age process rather than a natural formation over 40-60 years.

The backs also seem to indicate a sloppy application of the porcelain to overstate it's age and the rack marks also seem exaggerated. Old original signs had rack marks but were not that sloppy in appearance and I seldom find rust on the back of a sign that was hung. Only original porcelain signs that have rust on the back are ones that were found buried.

This sign came from a source country of fakes from a known forgerer/manufacturer of these fakes, with a well documented history of selling fakes on e-Bay. Shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. If it smells like, looks like and feels like *****. THEN IT IS *****!

Do you go and buy new furniture from a person selling brand new merchandise out of the trunk of his car in a store parking lot? No, because you know it is stolen. Same logic applied here would clearly lead an informed and prudent individual of average intelligence to clearly and without doubt conclude that this sign is a fake.

I am saddened to note that this ***** is peddled on this site. Flakes selling fakes for profit at the expense of an entire hobby should not be tolerated anywhere!


Edited by Dave's Garage (Wed Jun 05 2013 11:35 AM)
_________________________
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#420398 - Wed Jun 05 2013 11:47 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Dave's Garage]
tomzcollectiblez Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Feb 26 2006
Loc: La Porte, In
Kevin and Dave I agree 100%!!!
I feel foreign signs being sold should be stated as such JUST like repo's or fantasy items...
Also if your going to buy from a known repo seller, then dont try selling it here WITHOUT letting people know its questionable origin...The truth always comes out eventually...

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#420400 - Wed Jun 05 2013 11:53 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: tomzcollectiblez]
texacokie Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Jun 19 2011
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: tomzcollectiblez
Kevin and Dave I agree 100%!!!
I feel foreign signs being sold should be stated as such JUST like repo's or fantasy items...
Also if your going to buy from a known repo seller, then dont try selling it here WITHOUT letting people know its questionable origin...The truth always comes out eventually...


Agreed if it is a repop represent it as so. There are too many collectors who will bust ya if you try and pass this ***** off as original.


Edited by texacokie (Wed Jun 05 2013 11:56 AM)
_________________________
I am always looking for anything Texaco or Oklahoma oil and gas company's, also I am a newbie at seeking globes.

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#420402 - Wed Jun 05 2013 12:03 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: texacokie]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
jgoff is a shady seller... that has been known on OldGas since I joined earlier this year. the only thing that has changed is now he is actually hooking some people. all of his items have some sort of issue with them, whether its foreign, wrong markings, etc.
_________________________
Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

See some of my collection & Items for sale...
www.OnceAlwaysPetro.com

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#420407 - Wed Jun 05 2013 12:17 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: BryceG]
57CameoGuy Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Mar 08 2013
Loc: Kansas
I have had no dealings with this seller, here or on ebay. I thought it kinda strange to see these foreign signs cropping up with so many of them being mass produced south of the border. As a "junior" member I thought I would leave it to the verterans to deal with. Now that it has been brought up, I gotta ask why are any pieces of questionable background allowed here at all? Wouldn't it be nice to have a "safe haven" ?

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#420409 - Wed Jun 05 2013 12:24 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: 57CameoGuy]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
I personally have had some questions about the originality of a couple of the signs that have been offered here...

That is why I contacted the Historian of the Chevron Corporation, the "Parent Company" of Texaco... To see if such signage is mentioned or shown in their Corporate Archives?....

Mr. John Harper is the Historian for the Chevron Oil Corporation...

I asked him, if he was familiar with the Texaco-Vacuum sign(s) posted For Sale on Oldgas:

Here are his replies as of yesterday:

May 16th 2013:

"I would have to research this, given I have never seen such a joint sign. I am not stating a partnership did not exist. Just need to confirm."

June 4th 2013:

"I have not come across such signs. Have checked other sources, too, including Ball's book on Texaco collectibles. Also checked the Texaco Star magazine, which goes back to 1914 or so. No luck. Now, that is not to say they did not exist, especially if there was a partnership. But such brands appearing on the same finished signs have not shown up. Early stations did sell multiple brands from various companies, but the signs were separate. I will keep looking."



As of today; I have also sent a request to EXXON/Mobil asking that their Historian contact me and/or Mr. Harper... I will ask if they show such signage?
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#420410 - Wed Jun 05 2013 12:29 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: BryceG]
Nucky Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 16 2011
Loc: Belgium, Liege
Originally Posted By: baileybee
jgoff is a shady seller... that has been known on OldGas since I joined earlier this year. the only thing that has changed is now he is actually hooking some people. all of his items have some sort of issue with them, whether its foreign, wrong markings, etc.


be carefull last time I posted a message like that I got a message from Jim the webmaster asking me to stop harrassing member....

I think like you that those signs are fantasy, there are so many fakes around now that if you want to be sure to buy originals stay with well known ones with dates and signatures on them which prove the authenticity

by the way if you have any doubt about European signs I can help you, most of them were signed and dated so they are easy to distinguish from reproductions

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#420414 - Wed Jun 05 2013 12:53 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Bob Richards]
47reo-travis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Dec 18 2011
Loc: Fredericktown Missouri
Bob , it will be very interesting to see what the historian of Exxon has to say.Kind of has me curious now!
_________________________
I like SINCLAIR and old American made stuff ... No china items.

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#420421 - Wed Jun 05 2013 01:38 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: 47reo-travis]
Loyd Pierce Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Jan 13 2011
Loc: Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
Been wondering when this was going to blow. As other poster being of limited time in the hobby I thought I best stay out of it. I have felt for a couple of days that Oldgas was a bad place for these signs to land,but the fees are so low here right.
_________________________
*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*

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#420424 - Wed Jun 05 2013 01:48 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Loyd Pierce]
TC Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Jan 11 2008
Loc: Brantford,Ontario, Canada
I myself totally agree with Kevin and everyone else. When I first saw these signs on this site I new they were phonies and the seller even admitted they were from Argentina, funny all these signs look good on one side and the backs aways look like thet were in a bone yard for ever. Ted

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#420435 - Wed Jun 05 2013 03:09 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: TC]
bustermonty Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri May 06 2005
Loc: Indianapolis IN USA
According to the Michelin book the Michelin sign is correct and from Argentina. Most of the others, I'm not so sure. I agree fake, fantasy and repop(I like the word repop) have no place on oldgas without full disclosure.
You have to think there were signs in Argentina. Need a legit collector from that country to shed a little light on the subject.

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#420446 - Wed Jun 05 2013 03:53 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: bustermonty]
Oldgas Offline
Moderator

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Loc: South of St. Louis, MO USA
I don't know much about foreign signs. I have a few French Canadian, European and Australian signs and cans in my collection. I feel comfortable with their authenticity. I have passed on most other foreign signs because of doubts, price, condition and shipping issues. Kind of like it is with any sign from anywhere.

The foreign signs currently offered by a member of Oldgas.com Shop Talk have not been proven to me they are reproduction, or not. They do look like they are not made to USA manufacturing and logo standards. Could be back then the local sign companies didn't do a "world class" job on making them.

For me personally, signs that have the rusty porcelain backs and appear to be artificially aged make me uncomfortable enough to stay away. But it is not enough for me to label them as repro with any certainty because I don't know what a real foreign sign is supposed to look like, or even if there ever was a real one like that.

If you don't have sufficient knowledge about a class of items, or you're not comfortable because of doubts, do some serious thinking before you drop serious money on an item. Foreign or not. Just sayin'.
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Jim "Oldgas" Potts
Your host and moderator

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#420451 - Wed Jun 05 2013 04:07 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Oldgas]
Piokat81 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun May 19 2013
Loc: Pennsylvania
First. how fun would it be to be a historian for one of these companies?

Second this is why it's a bad idea to buy foreign signs. I don't understand people's fetish with them. Stay away they are bad news.

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#420453 - Wed Jun 05 2013 04:21 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Oldgas]
66phillips Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Jan 25 2003
Loc: Mangum, OK USA
The Texaco sign has a makers marker on it, the seller just didn't shoot a close-up of it. I think we should let the guy get up, before we kick him again. I've had lots of foreign signs through the years. Like American Mfgs, they didn't mark all of them. I can't compare any seller to the known foreign seller of American brand repops

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