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#420604 - Thu Jun 06 2013 06:43 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Dick Bennett]
tomzcollectiblez Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Feb 26 2006
Loc: La Porte, In
Jgoff, I realize the michelin and nafta are probably correct yet foreign, But the Pida valor oil and others have the red flag rusty back and chipping at mounting holes Yet NO Grommets! Nor does it look like there EVER was grommets...These are justifiable red flags! Then the fact you bought it from a KNOWN reproduction seller in multiples! Another HUGE red flag!
If someone asks if your sign is foreign or what the little writing at bottom says then answer truthfully and avoid alot of this problem.
For all we know you are Mr stensilwork from India himself with a fake account that set up shop in florida so dont get mad if we question your foreign signs that have serious RED FLags! Red Flags might be a good thing where you OR your signs come from BUT NOT in this country....

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Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#420608 - Thu Jun 06 2013 07:10 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: tomzcollectiblez]
Mattgas Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat May 05 2007
Loc: Nokomis, Il. USA
After reading this whole blog, first it you do not want to get burnt buy from a seller who guarantees what they sell. A seller like this will take the item back long after it is sold but you have to have hard proof that it is wrong.

Second educate your SELF. I have been burnt several times myself, learn from your mistakes.

On furin (foreign) signs there are a lot of great ones. I have found that most foreign made sign do not have grommets, these are real signs not repops. It they are USA made sign for a furin market they will have grommets. This is not written in stone this is just what I have noticed.

One last thing they have been making repops and fantasy signs for 50 years or more. Just because someone says I had that in my collection for 30 years and it cant be a repop, yes it can.

Dan

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#420609 - Thu Jun 06 2013 07:17 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: tomzcollectiblez]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
my comments were simply that what you post on here and what you post on ebay always tell 2 different stories. on here you'll try to pass it off as super rare and then post a price. on ebay you will add info on it that you cannot confirm and then you ask less money - there for exposing that you are trying to take advantage of people on the site. you dont post in any other discussions on this forum, so it shows you are simply fishing for buyers that might pull-the-trigger too early on one of your signs before researching it.

earlier this year your feedback on eBay was like 70%... so apparently its not only oldgas members that are noticing things.

you are correct that I dont know you, so shady might have been the wrong word to use. i think everyone on here just wants to make sure it feels like a community and if someone starts jeopardizing the trust then people react like so.

a lot of the questions people have could probably be answered by some background info on your signs instead of just saying, GREAT DEAL SUPER RARE NICE SIGN and other Ebay like title tags. tell us about the sign, where did it come from, where did you get it, no one is going to ridicule you for obtaining a sign from an auction or somewhere else... so there's no reason to always use 'a friend' & 'picking' as sources for the signs.
_________________________
Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

See some of my collection & Items for sale...
www.OnceAlwaysPetro.com

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#420613 - Thu Jun 06 2013 07:42 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: BryceG]
tomzcollectiblez Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Feb 26 2006
Loc: La Porte, In
here is a link to a reproduction sign jgoff originally tried to pawn off as original!!! remember this??? NO he has NEVER done this before?????
REPO sign jgoff tried to sell as original
I looked thru all the signs he bought from guidoapothecary! Here is guidoapothecary's completed listings.
guidoapothecary completed listings
Lastly, The michelin man sign is BACK on ebay for sale by guidoapothecary!
MICHELIN
After seeing jgoff using guidoapothecary's photos, and the fact that they live close to each other, they both have similar foreign signs, Both argentina signs, etc etc...Im beginning to wonder if they are in cahoots or possibly the same person or team???
The birds of the same feather ALWAYS flock together...dont they?

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#420621 - Thu Jun 06 2013 08:04 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: jgoff]
K W FRITH Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
Originally Posted By: jgoff
Mr. Firth You made a incorrect post on my thread. I called you out on the comment and YOU said sorry my mistake but obviously it hurt your feelings because you decided to take the time to try to trash my name WITH ZERO FACTUAL INFORMATION!! YOU SAID IT YOURSELF ON THIS THREAD YOU HAVE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND NO IDEA ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF THESE SIGNS.YOU SURE HAVE A LOT TO SAY ABOUT THINGS THAT YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF.


Sorry Guido or Joe Goff, or whoever you are? I only made factual statements in starting this post. Me thinks tho dost protest too much??
_________________________
Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133

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#420650 - Thu Jun 06 2013 10:36 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: K W FRITH]
Oldgas Offline
Moderator

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Loc: South of St. Louis, MO USA
It does not do this community much good to make judgements when you don't know much about the item in question. If you are not an experienced collector of South American signs, you really can't say for certain which sign is real and which is reproduction. You CAN say a sign is suspicious to you and that you wouldn't buy it.

To generalize and say that ALL items from a certain place or a certain seller are reproduction is carrying generalization too far. To say that YOU wouldn't buy from a certain place or seller because of what you have seen is more responsible.

Having doubts and suspicions is always enough to walk away from a sale. But unproven suspicions are not enough to absolutely brand everything that a seller has and his character.

But people are judged, fairly or not, by the company they keep. Vendors are judged by the items and the way they sell. Reputations can be damaged by reselling items from a tainted seller.

The responsible thing is to state only what you know for certain when it involves someone's reputation. Fair to say you would not buy an item or deal with a vendor. Not fair to call a vendor names and to make damaging statements as fact when they are really unproven opinions.
_________________________
Jim "Oldgas" Potts
Your host and moderator

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#420656 - Thu Jun 06 2013 10:58 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Oldgas]
Savinsam Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2006
Loc: northwestern Pa.
Amen, Jim. I'm just curious as to what effect it would have to this site if the "For sale, wanted, trade" forum was eliminated? I'm not suggesting for that to happen,but it appears that some members use the Oldgas site strictly for selling & nothing else, which in turn causes all of these arguments and mud slinging. My ears are tired!

Sam

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#420657 - Thu Jun 06 2013 11:00 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Oldgas]
Wes Maxwell Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Oct 15 2004
Loc: Central Ohio
Just as selling fakes can hurt the value of original items, calling an original a fake can do the same. I am no expert on signs, let alone foreign ones. A person can only do research and go on what he decides. As always with everything, buyer beware...
_________________________
US Air Force Retired, 1981-2007

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#420660 - Thu Jun 06 2013 11:42 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Savinsam]
Nucky Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 16 2011
Loc: Belgium, Liege
Originally Posted By: Savinsam
Amen, Jim. I'm just curious as to what effect it would have to this site if the "For sale, wanted, trade" forum was eliminated? I'm not suggesting for that to happen,but it appears that some members use the Oldgas site strictly for selling & nothing else, which in turn causes all of these arguments and mud slinging. My ears are tired!

Sam


I'm with you with that suggestion or any new member has to post at least 50 messages in general petroliana or showcase before having the opportunity to sell an item so members registered here would be mostly collectors or passionate people and not only sellers who come here to sell items at high prices

but it's just my opinion

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#420661 - Thu Jun 06 2013 11:45 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Oldgas]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
I've never been one to ignore the oblivious. You can look at any situation from whatever angle you want and convince yourself of whatever you want to believe. Some will have a bleeding heart approach while others will refuse to have the wool pulled over their eyes.

Facts speak louder then bleeding heart sentiments.

Facts are:

-In third world impoverished countries. Automobiles weren't as plentiful. The infrastructure to market and sell gas and oil did not come to be till much later. Items were sold in markets, where there was very little need for signage. Scrap metal had a higher demand and was re-purposed immediately because of the need for those raw commodities as well as no shortage of poor people looking for items to profit from. Very little if any signage was used in these markets and because of the demand for metals chances are slim of it surviving.

-Guidoapotecary sells reproduction signs.

-Jgoff has bought signs from this seller.

-Every sign Jgoff has sold or offered for sale are in Guidoapotecary's completed listings.

-All these signs exhibit telltale and similar characteristics of intentionally being aged and distressed.

-Jgoff is clearly buying multiples of these signs to resell for profit.

-Jgoff has sold these signs on this site without making full disclosure.

Just because you have bought a sign from a individual and feel it is right doesn't matter one bit. At the very least your opinion is bias and you have a vested monetary interest in believing the sign is legit. Every known seller of repops has unlimited numbers of positive feedback.

I am of the opinion that when people endorse or provide a character reference for another person it should be done with caution and responsibility. A good name and reputation should not be risked in the pursuit of wanting to be a bleeding heart liberal.

I have read my fair share of posts on this site that are critical of e-Bay for enabling sellers to market and sell their questionable merchandise. The above argument could be used by e-Bay to defend their position. If Oldgas.com wants to be a reactive site rather then a proactive site....well I have no control over that. In light of the debate surrounding the authenticity of these signs and the fact that it has been bought into question. It is my opinion it would be better to error on the side of caution. Why assume these signs are real in the absence of concrete proof that it is a repop? Wouldn't it be more wise to assume it is fake versus real?

I can only form my own conclusions and attempt to convey them while expressing my opinion. What others do with that information is their decision.

Don't lose sight of the fact that Jgoff is the author of his own fate here. This has come to be because, of his actions. Would you buy signs from Argentina continually and sell them as originals without disclosing all the facts? Is this not deceptive behavior? Where there is deception, their are ill intentions and victims!

Anyways, I've stated enough to clearly show where I stand. This is my last post on this thread.
_________________________
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#420663 - Thu Jun 06 2013 11:55 AM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Dave's Garage]
rogerg Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Jan 19 2013
Loc: AccountLockedAgain!!!!!!
That is one of the best responses EVER posted on oldgas!

Imo

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#420665 - Thu Jun 06 2013 12:07 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Dave's Garage]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Okay.... With the name calling. And honestly all the People throwing out BS on what is real in South America and what isn't? I will chime in again...

I've already shared this info with jgoff and some others on Oldgas....I am not an expert on signage... I did however, spend what I consider a fair amount of time in Argentina and other Country's in South and Central America in the mid 1970s... I was stationed at Balboa in Panama and was an "Instructor" at the "School of the America's"...

I contacted Mr. Harper because, I didn't find any images of the Texaco-Vacuum "NAFTA" sign on the 'net, that were over 5 years old ... Nor did I ever see such a sign, when I spent time in Argentina...

As I told jgoff, just because I never "noticed" such signage doesn't mean the signage is "fake"... But, it does give me question?....

But, so far the Corporate Historian of Texaco can't find an image of such a sign. Nor can he find any mention of a "JOINT VENTURE" between Texaco and Vacuum...

I have sent a request that the Historian for EXXON/Mobil contact Mr. Harper and/or myself and hopefully maybe he/she can either find mention of such a venture or he/she can tell us positively that there was no venture.

Again, as I related to jgoff, if there was no venture between Texaco and Vacuum? Then the sign is not real....

Until we have proof, either way... NO ONE KNOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been doing this a long time... I've seen some items that have "stumped" me... But, not a whole lot of them... This sign has me stumped... I've now seen 5 of these signs in the last 5 years... But, never saw one before 5 years ago....
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#420694 - Thu Jun 06 2013 02:08 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Bob Richards]
El Zahir Offline
New Member

Registered: Tue May 28 2013
Loc: Argentina
Hello, I'm new here and reading this topic I could find this information.
In my opinion the sign is original, I know perfectly the signs in Argentina and Uruguay.
Hope this pictures can clear the issue.
Regards.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=es&...dFurT0wHgyYH4BQ


Edited by Oldgas (Thu Jun 06 2013 02:30 PM)
Edit Reason: edit link code to be clickable

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#420704 - Thu Jun 06 2013 02:46 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: El Zahir]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
El thank you for commenting...

At least for me, images from Google are not proof...

Since you live in Argentina, have you seen such signs on old buildings? Do you have relatives who operated Texaco Gas Stations and such where they may have images of such signage?

Until the Historian at Texaco finds a mention of a Joint Venture between Texaco and Vacuum.... Well as I said before, if there was never a joint venture... Then there is NO WAY on God's Green Earth, that such a sign is "Real"...
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#420711 - Thu Jun 06 2013 02:59 PM Re: Foreign Signs? [Re: Bob Richards]
jbrooks Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Sep 30 2010
Loc: NJ
not trying to stir the pot here but El Zahir has been a member on here for 1 week?

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