Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Sunoco flange sign II

I'm not posting this up in any attempt/effort to call anything fake or anything of the sorts. A lot of these type of posts by myself are more just to put these things up for discussion. Get peoples opinions/expertise on a subject so that the information/story/data/conversation is stored in the Oldgas vaults. This way when someone comes here, or an old member wants to look something up, hopefully these threads will come up and help someone out.
On that point, how long does this stuff stay in storage? How big is the Oldgas vault of information? A couple hundred Terabyte?

Okay, so here we go.
The first picture is the minty frech sign that we all saw sell a little while back for like $3500 or so. This sign seems to have set the standard for these signs in that anytime I talk to someone about the "Sunoco diamond flange sign", they always bring up this one as the "mark".
The second picture is a piece that is currently on ebay being sold by our member Redhotrelics. What struck me was the thin lettering on the sign in "motor" & "oil". Different sign manufacture?? Also the main Sunoco logo lettering strikes a long curve across the tops of the font. In the ebay sign this curve does not seem to be very smooth or in proper alignment. It just doesn't look right. Another intersting thing about sign II is what appears to be VERY heavy shelving. Almost looking embossed. But that cannot be in that it is dbl sided. Also sign II has a blue flange where first sign has a yellow flange?
I just found this second sign interesting and I'm only throwing these points for discussion for sake of future reference.

Steve I saw that this morning and thought the same thing "that somethings not right with this sign". The one in my collection, which I post here matches the pricey one that sold.

It also has no yellow on the flange where it mounts to the wall!

My sign measures 26" x 15"

What do you mean? Your sign? That's my sign. I just haven't paid you for it yet.

It's a shame what is going on with all the fakes floating around...and it's going to get worse. As the fakes get better. I think when dealing with these questionable signs you have to consider who is the seller? That probably is a greater indication of authenticity then the sign itself. Reputation's will have to play a greater role in the future.

The question that begs to be asked is; Why is it, that the same sellers keep on having the questionable signs? I.M.O. it's because they are dealing with questionable sources.

If you are a seller whose integrity, honesty and signs are constantly brought into question.....well then it's very clear to me. That buying from you is risky and in order to protect myself that it is better to buy from someone with credibility.

Like the Veteran member that sold the fake Red Indian sign for $5200.00. Why would anyone buy any sign from him in the future?

i do see a little bit of a difference now that i have a couple pics to compare it to. I cannot believe to think that this sign is a fake though. Looks like i have to seriously re-evaluate my buying sources huh ... i think i may just stick to 6ft signs

sign has been pulled.

I agree this kind of ***** is going to ruin the hobby !
You need to do your homework befor jumping into any purchase these days.

Todd
Wanted Invader Motor Oil

Please, not another thread about how "marked and unmarked repops and fantasy's" are going to ruin the Hobby...


Repops and fantasy items have been around since the 1920s... And last I checked... "This Hobby", which started in the later 1940s. Not in 2013 or 1999 or 1979.... Is still "moving right along" with no indications that it is "stalling out"...

[It just doesn't look right. Another intersting thing about sign II is what appears to be VERY heavy shelving. Almost looking embossed.]

Trust your instincts

Here is my thought on this Sunoco flange. The known real ones are beautiful. The highest quality of porcelain sign making. In my experience the early signs were very well made. Smooth and clear. Even the shelving edges are smooth. Signage was a very important part of advertising back then and sign companies as well as the consumer wanted to put out the very best they could.
In contrast the suspect sign is grainy and bubbled, the shelving looks like a marshmallow.
If you look at the posting in non petro ex-lax and look at the differences of the old one versus the one on ebay the differences are just like the Sunoco flange. Same thing with the Carhart overall that seller has listed. The quality of these new signs is very poor compared to the old ones. It's glaringly obvious to me and other experienced eyes.

These photos of the "real deal" and suspect Sunoco flanges side by side are extremely helpful for pointing out problem signs.

Sorry Bob but your wrong . Reproductions of yesteryear are nothing compared to what is happening these days.

Rick, I am not wrong...

The quality of workmanship is in most cases quite a bit better than when I started Collecting... There is no doubt!

But, it is you who is wrong. The Hobbyist at this period of time, have options available to them, that those in the 1940s through the 1990s... Never really dreamed of...

Some Members, get upset and have complained to Jim... When I comment about when I started in the Hobby.(Per Jim's PMs)

I'm not sure why they are so insecure about their time in the Hobby... I didn't realize it was a contest. And if it is, then I am still in the arrears to those that were in the Hobby, before I started picking up items...

When I started and My Father started before me:... We couldn't pull out our cell phones and take an image of an item and email the image to "Oldgas" or an "Expert"...As the Collector of now, is able to do...

We couldn't go on Ebay and/or the 'Net and do a "search for the item... We couldn't go to Matthews Auction site or other Auction sites to see what an item went for... We couldn't pull up the "Globe CD" or "The Globe Guide" to see what if the globe we stumbled across was real or something a Merchant had made... We couldn't go to Iowa Gas, Columbus, Pate, Portland or other "Gas and Oil" Shows... As the Collector now is able to do....


None of those things existed, when I started in the Hobby...

I couldn't grab a phone and call someone like Scott, Wayne, Jack, db, Paddy, Randy, Doug, AL, Mick and others.... To get their impressions of items... When I started in the Hobby, we(my Family) were still on a "Party Line" with our telephone... When I started in the Hobby.. I-5 was not completed in our portion of SW WA... When I started in the Hobby, there were less than 100 total Hobbyists in the US and Canada... That we knew of... (and we visited almost each and every one, before I went into the Service in the early 70s...)

Before the Guides, Shows, Magazines... etc... It was a *****-shoot on some items...

For those who didn't collect before the 'net... Imagine... trying to find parts for a pump... Imagine trying to get info on a pump, Oil Company, Oil Can... etc... Before Jack's, Scott and Wayne's Books, Before Rick Pease's Books... etc....

While there are more "better quality" fake items out there... The ability to "smoke them out" is soooooooo much better and easier.... Bottom line, same as in 1963 when I picked up the Oilzum can... "It is up to the Buyer" to determine if an item is worth buying or not?

Sign was originally purchased off ebay a few days ago

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190867131898

so is the sign fake, fantasy, repp, etc??? was it maybe made by a different sign manufacturing company?? i dont know..

yes i bought the sign on ebay a week ago... i made the guy an offer and he accepted.. big deal.

it seems that nobody can confirm or deny what it is... it looks legit to me but im far from an expert.

il wait for more responses to take action on weather i will return it or not.

IMO it is not old. Poor quality, I would not want it in my collection.

redhotrelics,

It is worth understanding the difference between: Copy vs. Fantasy.

Copy = Original exists
Fantasy = Original does not exist.

IMO, Fantasy items are easier to spot since there are not any information about them in any existing publication.

So, in this case, the sign in question is a copy.

Hen