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#47878 Thu Mar 06 2003 04:05 PM
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Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
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I'm 100% sure the Sinclair sign is a fantasy piece. No doubt about it at all!

I don't know about the Oilzum sign, but seeing how he states unequivoclly that the Sinclair is original, I'd say the Oilzum is suspect too.

Be careful out there!
Bob


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


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I agree with Bob. The Sinclair is a fantasy piece and the Oilzum could be also. If they have one reproduction/fantasy piece they very well may have more. I would love to prove to some of these people that what they are selling is really phony.


Drive with Care and Buy Sinclair!! I buy Sinclair globes, signs, cans, ect.
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Ok, Here we go again. The sinclair is a repo... a sign in that good of shape missing the grommets is a fake. Notice he made the pictures smaller on the Oilzum sign. If you was to see the back, I would bet the grommets would tell the tale. People like this really make me mad ... some guy paid big money again for a repo. I wish these guys can come to oldgas! Maybe us that deal with ebay can post it in our description how great this site is ... that would bring more people here! also at the same time advertise for the site.


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Who is going to take the sellers word seriously,? I noticed he has 8 negs and some neutrals...... maybe the negs came from his uncles basement like the signs, dodogas

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All right. Thanks for the input. I was 99% sure they were fakes as Iv'e never seen a real Sinclair like that. That poor guy that forked out the money for the oilzum is the real loser. I email these bidders and sellers but never get responses which are pleasant. Oh well buyer beware but ebay should jump on some of this junk. Ted

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Jim has already warned us not to be emailing buyers that they may be buying something that is a fake. We can tell each other on this website that these may be fakes, but we really don't have the right to be emailing others. I am a true beliver in being informed, buy all the books you can, know what is out there, but if there is someone out there who just wants to bid on things without knowing anything about it, then LET THE BUYER BEWARE.


Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
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This is America and freedom of speech is still allowed. I can email anybody I want. I belive Jim's point was that if we send an email warning to a buyer it should be an expression of the sender's knowledge or opinion. It should not indicate or suggest that it represents the opinion of this website or as a unified voice of all the users of this website.

I don't think there is anything wrong in trying to help another person from possibly making a mistake. However keep in mind that even so called "world class" art experts are often fooled as to what is fake and what is real. In fairness to the buyer and seller I think the whistle blower should limit themselves to giving the buyer a fair warning that they should exercise all due diligence in researching the authenticity of the items they are considering purchasing. That is much more reasonable than shouting "fake". If you are 99.99% sure that still leaves a small chance for error. Give the potential buyer a heads-up and let them decide it they are willing to assume the .01% risk.

Many collectors own a "one of a kind" item. Because they are a "one of a kind", other collectors should assume it is a "fake" because they don't have one or have never seen one. Wouldn't you be upset if everybody at this website called you a con when posted your "one of a Kind" for sale on this website. On the other hand, if your potential buyer was cautioned to exercise all due diligence, I think you would consider this to be wise counseling.

[This message has been edited by Tim Rohr (edited 03-07-2003).]

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Although I am not an expert on authenticity, the seller is basing his claims on a couple of factors that aren't necessarily accurate.

1) There is normally a tremendous amount of difference in repro signs being made by Rooney and others based on the quality of the artwork, the porcelain enamel "look", size, etc.
2) Many variations of these signs have been reprod over the past 30 years by MANY different people, therefore, blank diameter, colors, and quality vary greatly.
3) If you want to spend the extra money you can duplicate the "look" of the old thick porcelain process and create "shelving" of the different colors, lettering, etc. including doing the back of the sign. You can also increase the guage of the blank to create a heavy high quality sign.
4) Most all of us are aware of what can be done to an item to make it appear aged.

In summary, the sellers reasons for submitting this to be original aren't as meaningful as opinions stated here concerning whether a company used a particular sign, colors, etc. That said, the buyer still has a responsibility to become educated if he wants to play at that level.


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Jack Sim is right on this one--cavaet emptor. And I like Premo's statement as well (The buyer still has a responsibility to become educated if he wants to play at that level.) Should we really feel sorry for the buyer? Or does it just feel good to "set the seller straight"? People are never appreciative either way, so I just leave it alone.

[This message has been edited by DCpate (edited 03-07-2003).]


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I agree people should use all the resorces at their disposal to educate themselves before spending alot of money (Thanks POPS) but sometimes "warning emails" dont matter. I have a friend who sells on Ebay that had a what looked to be a very old padlock on Ebay and the bid was well over $250.00 when my friend got an email from a person warning that the lock was not really that old. Being an Honest seller he immediatley contacted the high bidder and gave him the information. The high bidder said the informant had already contacted him and he didnt care because he thought it was a neat lock. My friend added "may not be that old" to the items description anyways. Things worked out fine but I guess it doesnt matter to some people with alot of money if they like it they like it. I am an Honest person and hope to deal with others who are honest but there is alot of dishonest people out there , so be careful and educate yourself or ask other collectors with more experience (Thanks POPS).
Hubba


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Like I said, I don't know about the Oilzum sign. I do know the the Sinclair is a fantasy piece. I'm 100% sure about it. Even if Sinclair used that sign (they didn't), they sure didn't use it 50 years ago. They didn't use the Dino logo until 1959.

Premo had a good point that the Oilzum sign could have been repopped by several different people over the years. Many repops have been around for 30 years.

Nobody is going to change the sellers mind. You might not even change the buyers mind. Sometimes the people sending the warning emails don't know what they're talking about.I had a guy email me doubting the vintage of some cans I was selling. I emailed the guy a close up picture of the can showing the date. He still didn't believe me. I once emailed a seller that had a globe with an attachment on ebay. He had the attachment on the wrong globe. I politely tried to point that out to him. He said it shows it on that globe in the book. I told him I had contacted the author and he said the book was wrong. I also told him I had a copy of the original installation instructions. He didn't believe any of it. The book was wrong, the buyer paid over $1200 for something that just wasn't right.

It looks like most of the bidders have low feedback numbers. They could be new to the hobby and not even realize the resources that are available to determine authenticity. I wonder how long they'll stick around the hobby if they buy unmarked repros as originals a few times?
Bob


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


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My turn...... Ive emailed bidders and sellers a few times and mostly got poor responses, They both seemed to think you had an alterior motive for contacting them. After attending a farm auction last summer to try to purchace a super rare pump sign. I understand both sides. A rather long time collector from out of state also came to bid on the sign and promptly went up to the auctioneer and loudly proclaimed it to be a repro! The auctioeer was skeptical and said so. I bid up the sign and got it for almost $3000 but guess who ran me all the way there! yep ol mister repro! So now I see both sides.......Les

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This is a free country, but when you're on eBay, you must play by eBay's rules. Here's their rule:

"Transaction interference - Emailing buyers in an open or ended transaction to warn them away from a seller or item.
Disciplinary action may result in the indefinite suspension of a user's account, temporary suspension, or a formal warning. eBay will consider the circumstances of an alleged offense and the user's trading records before taking action."

If you choose to email bidders, you run the risk of getting in trouble with the above rule.

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SO YOU CAN E-MAIL SELLERS???? THATS ALL THAT REALLY COUNTS.. IF THE BUYER DOESN'T CARE WHY SHOULD WE?? THE SELLER IS RESPONSIBLE.. ALL IT TAKES IS ONE WORD, ONE PICTURE, ETC.. TO GET A BUYER UPSET ON EBAY. I SOLD A N ITEM AWHILE BACK AND THE GUY CALLED ME AND SAID I DIDN'T SEND HIM THE OTHER HALF. I TRIED TO EXPLAIN TO HIM THAT WHAT HE SEES IS WHAT HE GETS, BUT HE HAD IT IN HIS MIND THAT I WAS SELLING TWO OF WHAT I SOLD. TO PREVENT NEGITIVE FEEDBACK I SETTLED WITH HIM..THE PICTURES CONFUSED HIM. MOST SELLERS ARE UNAWARE THAT THE ITEM THEY ARE SELLING IS REPOP.. THERE IS ON THE OTHER HAND THOSE WHO KNOW, AND SELL IT AS ORIGINAL ANYWAY, THEY SUCK, BOTTOM LINE, BUYER BEWARE, UNEDUCATED SELLERS, GLAD TO BE SET STRAIGHT,,/. SO WE SHOULDN'T MAIL BIDDERS,, CAN WE MAIL SELLERS?? FRANK..

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Hey Great respones and I agree with some of all the points mentioned. I believe this site is a great resource for all of us to help each other. If I ever think I'm going to bid on a fake I would contact some of the people on this site for info. If it's an honest mistake by most honest sellers they want to know if they are selling repos. As far as emailing the bidders I agree they should be informed by checking things out but if my name was on there as a bidder I would appreciate an eamil with a warning and then I would do the homework. Honesty is the bottom line. Most people I've met in this hobby are very very honest. Thanks for all the input. Ted

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I can appreciate Gasgeezer's experience for the exact same thing happened to me once at a farm sale when bidding on a globe. What turned out to be another bidder's buddy was camped out on my elbow actually pulling on my shirt during the bidding saying quite loudly to me so everyone could hear "It's fake...it's fake and besides it has a bad crack that is real hard to see." I had never had this happen before. I ignored him as I was BUSY at the time but had to hold back from popping the guy in the mouth. After I had bought the globe, the other bidder came up to me and was very pissed off at me and said some un-kind words. I just smiled and headed for my car. The two of them followed me out to my car!! I guess the reason I wasn't too worried about the situation was because the younger of the two looked to be at least 70 years old!!

I hope you are reading this pops. My globe looks GREAT lit up on my shelf!!!!

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way to go Midway! Glad to see you did not fall for the BS! My response to the other bidder was he should have went another $25 and he would have owned it. Now he will always wonder.........

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Hi-hey if i'm walking along and about to step in a hole I'd sure appreciate it if some stranger said "Hey bud watch yourself".

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WOW what a great analogy. Thanks
Hubba


Hubba: GAS GEEK , OIL FREAK of Seattle WA
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