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#48181 Sun Jun 24 2007 05:39 PM
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Ebay item 120135391482 Is this sign real or a repop? How do you tell? Has black or dark grey backing

Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#48182 Sun Jun 24 2007 05:58 PM
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Thin WHITE BOARDER, position of Gromets, Black back & originals meas. 11 7/8" dia.
ASK for EXACT MEASURMENT.
db

#48183 Sun Jun 24 2007 06:57 PM
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Be wary that the seller has stated NO PAYPAL on this item, but he normally accepts Paypal. This is always a red flag on ebay. The seller will tell you it is due to Paypal fees, but in reality, it is because many times, the seller knows there is a chance of a Paypal chargeback. That is my two cents on this, out of a bad experience a couple of years ago with a similar item with NO Paypal.

#48184 Sun Jun 24 2007 07:04 PM
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Thats funny. The "No Paypal" thing. He'll take Paypal on his other listing though. Sounds like good advice to me.


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#48185 Sun Jun 24 2007 09:09 PM
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In my opinion, you guys are overly paranoid. Some sellers will accept PayPal on low dollar items but refuse to take the hit for the fees on high dollar items ($22 fee on the Buy It Now price for the Signal). Check out the seller's feedback. I'd say if he responds to questions and provides requested info or photos, there should be no problem.

By the way, I have three genuine Signal pump plates. Note the EXACT dimensions...

Signal "Red Stop Light" = 12"
Signal "Ethyl" = 12"
Signal "Black Stop light" = 11 7/8"

#48186 Mon Jun 25 2007 05:59 AM
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No paranoia here. I have had it happen to me where a seller who normally takes PP, suddenly will not. Of course he or she will claim it is because of the fees. Well, I fell for it once and got badly burned by a repop sign. That is NOT paranoia. It is FACT. Watch out for this, it is a warning sign when sellers do this. BTW, there are tons of fake Signal pump plates out there and they turn up regularly on ebay.

#48187 Mon Jun 25 2007 09:52 AM
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This pump plate has been advertised for sale here on Oldgas more than once.


Looking for nearly anything related to Signal Oil

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#48188 Mon Jun 25 2007 04:10 PM
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Re: "No paranoia here. I have had it happen to me where a seller who normally takes PP, suddenly will not. Of course he or she will claim it is because of the fees. Well, I fell for it once and got badly burned by a repop sign. That is NOT paranoia. It is FACT. Watch out for this, it is a warning sign when sellers do this."

So, should everyone act like Mark Twain's cat?? Like I said previously, simply check out the seller's feedback and ask questions. If the seller responds to questions and provides requested info and photos, what more do you want?? It doesn't make sense to assume a seller is dishonest just because he won't accept PayPal for one high dollar item.

For all the doubters, this particular Signal pump sign is real. Whether the condition justifies the price is subject to opinion but the sign is definitely genuine.



[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited 06-25-2007).]

#48189 Mon Jun 25 2007 06:38 PM
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I didn't mean to start a firestorm with this Signal Pump Plate. DB is right, I stand corrected, it actually measures 11 7/8" and it is original.
Pablo, you are correct...the reason I am not accepting Paypal on this is because of the listing fee, final value fee and because of what I paid for it.

You are also correct it has been listed on this site a couple of times....it actually sold for $825 but the buyer backed out of the sale.

All emails will be answered and I will change the listing to 11 7/8".

------------------
frank jordan


Frank Jordan
#48190 Mon Jun 25 2007 07:15 PM
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RE" Pablo. If I wanted your opinion, I would ask for it. I sell on ebay, and I know what I am talking about. I do not care if you act like Mark Twain's cat. cram it

#48191 Mon Jun 25 2007 07:25 PM
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"gasteek",
I think Mr. Jordan has already clarified his auction and validated my observations.

What's the point of this thread? If you don't want other opinions, then I'd say keep your comments to yourself. I've been buying and selling on eBay since 1997 but I guess you know it all from your single bad experience??

#48192 Tue Jun 26 2007 10:40 AM
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wont get into whether or not its original except to indicate the overall tone and "holyer than thow" attitude laced with insinuations, accusations and threats [sent in an email to this ebayer] as posted in this listing

this party should also be most thankful mr jordan opted to answer their posted email rather than reporting them to ebay

[This message has been edited by haggis (edited 06-26-2007).]

#48193 Tue Jun 26 2007 06:02 PM
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haggis,
You're correct. I checked the Signal plate auction and that questioner was excessively rude, out of line and a total a-- h---!! I hope an Old Gasser wasn't the guilty party but I suspect it could be.

Personally, I generally accept PayPal because it encourages more bidding which in turn more than offsets the additional cost of the PayPal fees. However, I understand Mr. Jordan's position with the Buy It Now auction. Why waste money on PayPal fees when he knows exactly what he requires out of the sale? (His single error was leaving the PayPal logo and payment option in the auction while excluding that option in the description. That's not allowed under eBay rules.)

For the doubters, I've never seen a repop Signal pump sign with the white edge trim. Also as previously stated, the genuine signs are known to have diameters of either 12" or 11 7/8". The repops will be 11 1/4" - 11 3/4", depending on the source.

Cheers!!

#48194 Tue Jun 26 2007 07:11 PM
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For your information, it was NOT me who questioned this sign. I could care less what you think, but when a seller tries to sell without Paypal, it is a red flag in MANY cases. I did NOT say all cases.

#48195 Tue Jun 26 2007 07:20 PM
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Gasteek: After listing the Signal Sign I found the Paypal logo cannot be removed once the auction starts. Hope this clears it up. It was not my intent to create H&D!!!!
Frank


Frank Jordan
#48196 Tue Jun 26 2007 08:06 PM
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wow this is great schooling for me.........i never knew much about pump plates but i'm learning here.....

...gasteek you stated in your last post ....."but when a seller tries to sell without Paypal, it is a red flag in MANY cases. I did NOT say all cases. ".....

....however in your earlier post you said this........" Be wary that the seller has stated NO PAYPAL on this item, but he normally accepts Paypal. This is ALWAYS a red flag on ebay. "..........

I would like to take the sellers view on this as there are ripoffs from not only the sellers but from buyers as well.........How would you like to sell an original sign for a $1000.00 & have the buyer cancel his charge on pay pal because it was a repo, but in reality it is original......Then the bad buyer sends you a repo back & you have the burden of proving it was an original you sent ..What a mess it becomes.....Moral of the story is, not only sellers can be bad there are some bad buyers also........i just read of this occuring in Antique Trader........The slogan should be BUYERS & SELLERS beware


[This message has been edited by roadrelics@aol.com (edited 06-26-2007).]

#48197 Tue Jun 26 2007 08:35 PM
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Hey Frank... Its ok... I still love ya'


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#48198 Tue Jun 26 2007 08:39 PM
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Shows are still the Best place to buy.

db

#48199 Tue Jun 26 2007 08:58 PM
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Thunder--easy!!--i keep telling my wife that ThunderII is a guy!!


Frank Jordan
#48200 Wed Jun 27 2007 05:21 AM
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Hawkike, you said ........Gasteek: After listing the Signal Sign I found the Paypal logo cannot be removed once the auction starts. Hope this clears it up. It was not my intent to create H&D!!!!
Frank.......

I believe you may be able to remove the pay pal logo from your auction......try this

go to my ebay,....... on the left side of the page click on "my Account" then click "Preferences"..........then click on payments from buyers......on the right side of the page click "show" then click "edit"............then click NO for "offer pay pal on listings" then click NO on "display pay pal credit"......there may be a couple of others you may want to click no......

...Then after you have updated this part go to your Signal sign auction & click "revise item", scroll down to offer pay pal & you should be able to remove the logo..........

I had to do this once for the same reasons you are......good luck

#48201 Wed Jun 27 2007 03:47 PM
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Everyone has opinions and its great that we can share them here on this wonderful website. Thanks for your cooporation in keeping your opinions and responses civil. Buyers and sellers should always be cautious when purchasing items over the internet. I agree with DB..shows are the best place to inspect and purchase items.
Thanks

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Hubba: GAS GEEK , OIL FREAK and humble moderator


Hubba: GAS GEEK , OIL FREAK of Seattle WA
#48202 Wed Jun 27 2007 05:28 PM
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That ok Frank. Heres a pic just to prove it. Its from the Renaissance Fair, here, last year. Thats me and my Daughter. Just tell your wife that I'm the one in the blue dress..... LOL!!!!



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#48203 Wed Jun 27 2007 05:44 PM
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Roadrelics.........Thanks for the info. on removing the paypal logo. It worked!!
I also removed "No paypal accepted on this item."

This should take care of the controversy!

Frank


Frank Jordan
#48204 Wed Jun 27 2007 05:59 PM
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Frank
Thunder's picture was taken BEFORE the Fair Madian smiled at him & he passed out ! [heat stroke]

#48205 Wed Jun 27 2007 06:46 PM
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I believe you DB,as you are not known to fabricate an untruth!


Frank Jordan
#48206 Wed Jun 27 2007 08:22 PM
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Your Welcome Hawkike.......some people are very quick to have opionions & never will see the truth if it slaps them in the face....I am happy that you got the authenticity of your sign figured out & the Pay Pal off your auction........good luck with your sale......roadrelics

#48207 Thu Jun 28 2007 08:07 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up Thunder!


Frank Jordan
#48208 Fri Jun 29 2007 09:11 AM
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WOW, didn't mean to start a war with this question, still don't know if its real as some are saying it is real and some not. Not sure where to go to find out if these are real or not. This is what these repros are doing to the hobby. Everything is reproduced now days, gas pumps, signs, pedal cars, jukeboxes. Wish there were better ways to stop these from being made. Hundreds of dollars is alot to spend if its not real.

#48209 Fri Jun 29 2007 10:00 AM
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56chiefstar--if you read the post from Dick Bennett and Pablo i think you must agree that this is not a repro.It fits the criteria as original.That fact was verified when i first bought this sign and posted it on Old Gas.


Frank Jordan
#48210 Fri Jun 29 2007 02:36 PM
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The ORIGINAL SIGNAL SIGN is the one I have on auction and is pictured on the left. Note: The REPOP has a black outer edge and the Original has a white outer edge. The Repop measures 11 1/4" versus 11 7/8" on the Original. The grommets on the Repop are closer to the outside edge than the Original. The lettering is brighter and the stop light is wider on the Original. Those are a few differences I have noted.


Frank Jordan
#48211 Fri Jun 29 2007 02:56 PM
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Original Signal back is on left, Repop is on the right and clearly marked "Ande Rooney."


Frank Jordan
#48212 Fri Jun 29 2007 03:46 PM
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Frank,
Note that you have described only one repop Signal sign. These signs have been manufactured by several companies with differing characteristics. Check out the attached photos of another repop Signal sign, 11 3/4" diameter, red band on the edge and gray back. The common traits for all Signal repops is no white band on the edge and the mounting holes are closer to the edge than the genuine signs.






[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited 06-29-2007).]

#48213 Fri Jun 29 2007 06:59 PM
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Pablo,i had not seen that one,thanks.Not a bad looking $20.00 sign!


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#48214 Sat Jun 30 2007 05:18 PM
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Its interested to read discussions about reproductions and not see more people questioning the legitimacy of the fonts as a telltale sign that signs may not be original.

If you look closely at hawkike's post which has an image of two Signal signs, note how the fonts appear similar, but are not exact.

For example, focus on the "A" in gasoline. Note how the sign on the left has crisp edge corners, but the sign on the right has slightly rounded corners. Now look at the triangle inside the "A": note how they are of different sizes.


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#48215 Sat Jun 30 2007 05:56 PM
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Older REPO's will no longer be a Problem.
BUT.
With the Technology of today, REPRODUCTIONS will need a Chemist to determine the authenticity, even when comparing the a REAL item to a New item.

#48216 Sat Jun 30 2007 09:52 PM
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Chadhas..........
the font is a tell tale way of telling the difference between repo & original however there were different sign companys, different fonts, colors , size, etc. etc. there are many other ways to tell the difference & the colors are a big indicator.....each sign has its own indicators & its all difficult to remember unless you have this type of forum ........compare photos with expert commentary....we do not have this privelage when we are at a swap meet, garage sale, collectors house, when pulling the trigger means getting a good deal & not pulling the trigger means not getting your prize or treasure,,,,,,this seperates the men from the boys It would take an encyclopedia to document all the differences between original & repos of all the diffrent signs , pumps, globes,cans, paper , glass, porcelain, font style, colors, size, etc. etc. etc.
.....................another way to tell the difference between repo & originall would be to invest in a spectrometer & analysis

#48217 Sun Jul 01 2007 10:04 PM
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I had the opportunity to speak at length with the historian for ConocoPhilips about this very topic.

He told me that many petroleum companies used the same sign manufacturers to reproduce their advertising. But national companies often worked with multiple advertising and sign companies in various different geographical territories. During the 20' and 30's in particular, this left inconsistencies in an artist’s interpretation of a brand.

Although this was a common occurrence, he added that most companies provided the same kind of oversight about how they protected the integrity of their brands "back in the day" as they do today. In other words, they would not let "out of the ordinary" products reach the market.

But that is not the question that I am posing here.

What clearly stands out on some reproductions is their use of modern day fonts. It’s clear that the person reproducing the art has chosen to take a short cut: rather than trace an exact replica from an original, an existing font that is similar looking in appearance is chosen instead.

It is the only possible reason to explain how a font that dates from the ‘80’s could possibly end up on a globe/sign from the 50’s/60’s.

After all, their rationale likely is that if only a discriminating buyer would know the difference, that person is not the target market for these goods anyway, but rather the unsuspecting.

There is nothing wrong with this method of reproduction provided the buyer is made aware.

[This message has been edited by chadhaas (edited 07-02-2007).]


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