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Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: s932] #502997
Sun Jan 05 2014 09:05 AM
Sun Jan 05 2014 09:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 928
Just South of Nowhere in IL
PlainBroke Offline
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Just South of Nowhere in IL
You know guys, looking through this thread I really don't see a whole lot of posts that are laying this on Dan. The main thrust of all this is that we as collectors and protectors of this hobby who are in it for the love of this stuff (most of us grew up living in it) find that our hobby is being hijacked by profiteers, scammers and others who have a negative impact by driving prices much higher than what would be considered "reasonable" among our community. The increase in auction house fees just adds more fuel to the frustration. Morphy has every right to maximize their business anyway they see fit but the reality of it is that they will lose many auction bidders that simply cannot and will not pay the additional fees. Whether the loss of those bidders will have any significant impact on their business or the consignees is yet to be determined. In the meantime we will all continue to pursue exciting finds and trades within our community and at various shows across the country. Will I say today that I will boycott Morphy's auctions - probably not. But my ability to play in that arena will certainly be scaled back significantly. This stuff is still our there and although getting a tad bit harder to come by we see stuff still surfacing everyday on this site, most of which is being bought at "reasonable" prices. So to sum it up, the majority of these posts are not trashing Dan, he has been and will continue to be a good friend to hundreds of us on this site despite what Morphy decides to do with their business. And who knows, maybe Dan will be the advocate for the hobby that we think he is and cause a change of heart among the decision makers at Morphy's and reverse this new policy. Hell, our beloved government does it all the time. BTW, can't anyone find me a damn Phillips double bubble clock?


Steve
Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: PlainBroke] #503002
Sun Jan 05 2014 09:28 AM
Sun Jan 05 2014 09:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 493
LaGrange, Ohio
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scottpcm Offline
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LaGrange, Ohio
Dan is a class act and saw an opportunity and took it we all can agree to that. Yes Morphy charges more at their auctions but who knows, maybe that will help curb prices a bit that I feel are getting way out of hand again. Anyway there are many venues to buy items out there and that makes the hunt fun! Scott B.

Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: scottpcm] #503006
Sun Jan 05 2014 09:35 AM
Sun Jan 05 2014 09:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,753
South of St. Louis, MO USA
Oldgas Online cool
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Oldgas  Online Cool
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South of St. Louis, MO USA
I think we all trust Dan. He has done a great job all along building his specialty in the auction business.

I know that over the years my employer didn't always do things the way I would have liked, but it was his name over the front door. We did things his way. Dan is working for Morphy. They set the rates. If you don't like it, adjust your actions to fit within your comfort zone. When Dan comes up with his usual great items, we'll see who can hold back. Just sayin'.


Jim "Oldgas" Potts
Your host and moderator
Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: Oldgas] #503007
Sun Jan 05 2014 09:42 AM
Sun Jan 05 2014 09:42 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,980
Northwest Ohio
Ohio Oil Offline
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Northwest Ohio
It's all reletive. One of my best friends just lost his father and had to settle the estate. Two local aucion companies were contacted to explore various options.

Both auction companies price structure was 33% of final value. My guess is that's pretty typical.

The day has long passed that you are going to get a smokin hot deal at a well advertised auction. Plan to grow your collection accordingly.

Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: Ohio Oil] #503021
Sun Jan 05 2014 10:37 AM
Sun Jan 05 2014 10:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,675
Carpinteria, Ca. USA
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hotcidr Offline
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Carpinteria, Ca. USA
Why hasn't Dan or Morphy posted some statement here? Yes, we are all friends of Dan's however he had to know, going into this deal, that WE were going to get screwed in the end. Our signs have grown in value just like cars at auction. All of the car auctions still charge 10% including BJ

Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: hotcidr] #503029
Sun Jan 05 2014 11:09 AM
Sun Jan 05 2014 11:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,753
South of St. Louis, MO USA
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South of St. Louis, MO USA
If you would like to hear Dan's point of view, contact him directly. Not always wise to jump into a dramatic forum topic like this.


Jim "Oldgas" Potts
Your host and moderator
Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: hotcidr] #503197
Sun Jan 05 2014 07:36 PM
Sun Jan 05 2014 07:36 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 433
Nokomis, Il. USA
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Mattgas Offline
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Nokomis, Il. USA
I don't type letters, I speak words, if you want a response from me call.

Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: Mattgas] #503201
Sun Jan 05 2014 07:43 PM
Sun Jan 05 2014 07:43 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 433
Nokomis, Il. USA
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Mattgas Offline
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Nokomis, Il. USA
Also if you want to talk to Dan Morphy Tommy gave you his number, call it.

Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: Mattgas] #503211
Sun Jan 05 2014 08:24 PM
Sun Jan 05 2014 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,044
Portland Oregon
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Craig Osbeck Online content
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Portland Oregon
exactly.


Craig
Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: Craig Osbeck] #503234
Sun Jan 05 2014 10:01 PM
Sun Jan 05 2014 10:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 841
DFW metro area
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Pegasus Offline
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DFW metro area
Guess I was smarter than you all thought......selling my collection at auction last year at Columbus and Des Moines. You remember those auctions......way back in the days when buyers premiums were only 10%. The low fees probably explain why the buyers in total paid at least 45% more for the items than I paid for them. I'm sure we'll all look back on those days with fond memories......I sure will!!

Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: Pegasus] #503266
Mon Jan 06 2014 05:52 AM
Mon Jan 06 2014 05:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,435
Holland, MI
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Holland, MI
Great topic!! I enjoy reading the different perspectives about the buyers premium. It is very obvious that many of those who posted are also knowledgable about the expense side of running an auction firm.

With all the knowledge and wisdom displayed in this post I would be surprised if we don't see 2 or 3 of our Oldgas members start up their own auction firms in the coming year. Of course none of them will charge a buyers premium and we as members will all flock to their auctions and support them and they will be very sucessful.

That will teach those big auction firms a lesson!

I also like to wish everyone a Happy and Prosperous New Year!

Lonnie Hop


Wanted: Ripple Body Globes, picture globe, any Dixie Distributors keyhole gas pump globe and ANYTHING from Old Dutch Refining, Muskegon, MI Musgo sign
Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: olddutchgas] #503277
Mon Jan 06 2014 08:11 AM
Mon Jan 06 2014 08:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 263
Brantford,Ontario, Canada
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TC Offline
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In my opinion the auction companies are making enough if they deal with a percentage of sales. With no buyers premium the prices would be higher and so would their cut. Nothing worse than checking out and being nailed with the premium and taxes to boot. Why are some companies like Millers offering great items with NO BUYERS PREMIUM? We the buyers are already paying a buyers premium by bidding on the item in auction. The idea of auction is to sell to highest bidder not to be nailed with fees. Somewhere in this post its states about 30% commission plus 20% buyers premium. Not bashing anyone but its getting ridiculous. Barrett Jackson doesn't charge that much selling and buying, in the 15% total charge. But I stand to be corrected. Enough said,Ted

Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: TC] #503287
Mon Jan 06 2014 09:03 AM
Mon Jan 06 2014 09:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,978
Evansville, In
Jarvis Offline
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Something everyone keeps forgetting is there are consignee fees and buyers fees.
Barett Jackson has a consignee fee and a buyers fee. There fee depends on day of auction and where it's at.

I am sure millers has both fees also... unless you work there or know there fees maybe the consignee is paying a 20%-30% fee and buyer is paying 0%?

The auctioneers are going to get paid somewhere. Someone like Morphy and Matthews are well known auction companies with Dan being a specialist in gas and oil. Does him being a specialist and knowing the hobby make him worth more? That is up to everyone personally. Would you rather buy a sign, can or globe from him or some auctioneer that doesn't have a clue what he has?
I seen Aumann Auctions mentioned... Does Aumann's have anyone that knows gas and oil since Dan left? Dan is what put Aumann's on the map for selling gas and oil!

I know from personal experience that talking to a auctioneer that doesn't have a clue what they have is very scary. Ever buy something from them and wonder how they are going to ship it?

I know local auction companies do a great job auctioneering and have low fees. Do they advertise where they need to? Do they have a following of buyers for gas and oil? Will there signs bring what Dans does?

No one likes a hike in fees... trust me i don't like higher fees! I will still buy from people i trust in this hobby if you can't buy it in person. I will just need to decide if i want to pay $1000 for a item that my bid needs to be $850 to pay $1000 for it.


Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.
Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: Jarvis] #503299
Mon Jan 06 2014 10:06 AM
Mon Jan 06 2014 10:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,818
Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Dave's Garage Offline
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I owned a local auction house. We were doing $100,000-$150,000 dollar auctions once a month.

Done properly it is a pretty good business model with very good profits. I had 20% sellers premium and 10% buyers premium.

-That's a 30% profit margin.
-With "0" money tied up in inventory. Any other business moving $150,000.00 worth of merchandise would be carrying $500,000.00 to a million dollars of inventory to realize that kind of sales.
-"0" receivables everyone pays at the time of the sale.
-Very little staff requirements. 95% of you staff is part-time only the day of the sale and the following day they are required.
-Customers pay all shipping costs to and from the auction.
-Your customers assume all the risk. i.e. poor or soft sale, theft or damage to items.

As you can see it's a pretty good gig with minimal risk and maximum profit margins. Not a struggling industry. In my opinion, this is more about profits then necessity. Like anything else, everyone wants to make the most money while the going is good.....


Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
Re: The Matthews / Morphy Auction Changes [Re: Dave's Garage] #503351
Mon Jan 06 2014 01:10 PM
Mon Jan 06 2014 01:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,937
Western, WI.
Mike M. Offline OP
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Mike M.  Offline OP
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Western, WI.
Again I didn't start this thread to bash Dan or Matthews auctions. I wanted to know if they had told anyone why the increase??
I will call and talk to Dan but as a business owner myself, If I raised prices 8% without a statement as to why, my customers probably wouldn't call me. They would be ***** and move onto another shop for their work.
I read the statement released by Matthew / Morphy auctions about the merger when it came out and felt, Good for Dan!! I would have understood this (and still might not of liked it) if in that statement they had explained that there would be an increase in the future. Finding it out when I read the ad in this months PCM was a surprise that made me feel Morphy was trying to slip one by us.
This is a hobby we all enjoy and hope that it keeps going to the next generation and any increases in costs always make me wonder will it keep going.
Again I know costs are going up but I don't have to like it, but I do like when someone takes time to explain why!!!

As for Millers Auctions, (No buyers premium in House) they are very good to deal with and I look forward to spending money there in February.

http://www.millersauctionco.com/

http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/photopanel.cgi?listingid=1691371&category=0&zip=&kwd=


Thanks
Mike

Always Looking for any Pure Oil and Sunoco Items.
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