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#513462 - Thu Feb 13 2014 11:40 AM Another fraud making unmarked signs
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Maybe this Seller has been noted before? If not;Their Ebay name is "passion4signs" and also sell under "classiccarsnsigns"...

One of their "made to order signs"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-DELCO-SPARKPL...VE/231157152211
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#513630 - Fri Feb 14 2014 08:08 AM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Bob Richards]
cdreed06 Offline
Member

Registered: Sun Feb 09 2014
Loc: Missouri
They aren't stating that it is an original.

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#513700 - Fri Feb 14 2014 01:41 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: cdreed06]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
WHAT PART OF "NOT MARKING", DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

When a fake is NOT, marked as such. It can be sold "down the line" as an original... When marked, the "Seller" has to alter the item to remove or obscure the markings....

WE ARE COLLECTORS HERE; For the most part... It hurts our hobby, when frauds make and sell repops and fantasy items as originals!!!!! Or when others, sell repops and fantasy items at "Gas and Oil" Shows, Flea Markets, in Auctions... etc... When they know that the items are "Unmarked" Fakes....
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#513708 - Fri Feb 14 2014 02:17 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Bob Richards]
JeffS Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Aug 20 2012
Loc: Manassas, VA
It's clear that the seller is making the signs to order. Calling him a "fraud" is extreme and incorrect in this situation.

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#513713 - Fri Feb 14 2014 02:29 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JeffS]
Steven C. Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jun 01 2012
Loc: MICHIGAN
It's about the downstream guy!! Not the person buying this piece today. It's about the preservation of the authentic. Unmarked/undated fantasy/repop pieces pervert the future of the hobby.
Get it??
_________________________
Steve Coppens
Always interested in Sunoco items!
Really want a Sunoco National pump add glass!!

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#513717 - Fri Feb 14 2014 02:45 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JeffS]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Jeff, are you a Collector, a Decorator, a "Picker" or...?

I am a Collector. Been one for multiple decades...

In my opinion, I am 100% correct...

I believe that most Collectors feel the same about those that make "Unmarked" items; Items that can be passed off as originals by future Sellers; Because the items have no markings showing that they are not old nor original...
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#513740 - Fri Feb 14 2014 04:01 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JeffS]
JimT Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 06 2002
Loc: Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: JeffS
It's clear that the seller is making the signs to order. Calling him a "fraud" is extreme and incorrect in this situation.
He's making limited unmarked reproduction items for a profit. What would the proper name or term be?

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#513746 - Fri Feb 14 2014 04:48 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JimT]
JeffS Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Aug 20 2012
Loc: Manassas, VA
fraud [frawd]
noun

deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.

- Bottom line, this seller is doing nothing deceitful. He CLEARLY states that the signs are made to order. Anyone that takes one of his signs and pawns it off as original would be the fraud.

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#513750 - Fri Feb 14 2014 05:07 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Steven C.]
JeffS Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Aug 20 2012
Loc: Manassas, VA
Originally Posted By: Steve C.
It's about the downstream guy!! Not the person buying this piece today. It's about the preservation of the authentic. Unmarked/undated fantasy/repop pieces pervert the future of the hobby.
Get it??


Yes, I "get" your comment. My point is that the seller is in no way being fraudulent, as the OP stated in the title of this thread. The potential fraud would be downstream.

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#513753 - Fri Feb 14 2014 05:42 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JeffS]
Steven C. Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jun 01 2012
Loc: MICHIGAN
The use of the word "fraud" could in fact be debated here. I can give you that.
But I still find it disrespectful to the hobby to produce unmarked/undated pieces. If you believe in preserving history and authenticity, there is never an excuse for that practice.
_________________________
Steve Coppens
Always interested in Sunoco items!
Really want a Sunoco National pump add glass!!

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#513765 - Fri Feb 14 2014 06:37 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Steven C.]
roadrelics Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Dec 21 2002
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
i wonder if he paying royalties on the rights to use all these different logos....If he does one of H-D , they may be at his door soon....not sure if its illegal, but he could be held accountable in civil court.....

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#514196 - Sun Feb 16 2014 12:23 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: roadrelics]
JeffS Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Aug 20 2012
Loc: Manassas, VA
I totally agree that the duplication of these signs could be illegal, depending on copyright laws.

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#519794 - Tue Mar 11 2014 10:52 AM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JeffS]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Fraud is a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

Vintage style sign is not as clear as metal sign with vinyl graphics applied. Selling copyright protected/intellectual property without a proper licensing agreement in place isn't exactly stellar or lawful behavior.

The guy is an opportunist with no regard for the hobby, purchaser or anyone else. It's all about money...greed. In my books he is a crook, fraudster amongst many other things. Definitely not someone I would be defending. I'm with Bob.
_________________________
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#519808 - Tue Mar 11 2014 12:38 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Dave's Garage]
Keystone Gas Man Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Jun 04 2011
Loc: Parkersburg, WV 26101
Just date the darn things!!
_________________________
Looking for Keystone,Pure,Sinclair,Texaco,Sterling and Gulf...Thanks, Brian

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#519958 - Tue Mar 11 2014 10:04 PM Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Keystone Gas Man]
Catauladave Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Aug 27 2011
Loc: Cataula, Georgia, USA
How does anyone know that these signs are not dated or marked ? It would actually be to the manufacturers best interest to do to encourage repeat business. I did not see any close-up photos or evidence to suggest that they were or were not. Dave
_________________________
Dave Jones
It's All Just Stuff

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