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Another fraud making unmarked signs #513462
Thu Feb 13 2014 10:40 AM
Thu Feb 13 2014 10:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline OP
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Bob Richards  Offline OP
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Longview, WA
Maybe this Seller has been noted before? If not;Their Ebay name is "passion4signs" and also sell under "classiccarsnsigns"...

One of their "made to order signs"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-DELCO-SPARKPL...VE/231157152211


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Bob Richards] #513630
Fri Feb 14 2014 07:08 AM
Fri Feb 14 2014 07:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6
Missouri
C
cdreed06 Offline
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cdreed06  Offline
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C
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6
Missouri
They aren't stating that it is an original.

Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: cdreed06] #513700
Fri Feb 14 2014 12:41 PM
Fri Feb 14 2014 12:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline OP
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Bob Richards  Offline OP
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Longview, WA
WHAT PART OF "NOT MARKING", DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

When a fake is NOT, marked as such. It can be sold "down the line" as an original... When marked, the "Seller" has to alter the item to remove or obscure the markings....

WE ARE COLLECTORS HERE; For the most part... It hurts our hobby, when frauds make and sell repops and fantasy items as originals!!!!! Or when others, sell repops and fantasy items at "Gas and Oil" Shows, Flea Markets, in Auctions... etc... When they know that the items are "Unmarked" Fakes....


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Bob Richards] #513708
Fri Feb 14 2014 01:17 PM
Fri Feb 14 2014 01:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 275
Manassas, VA
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Posts: 275
Manassas, VA
It's clear that the seller is making the signs to order. Calling him a "fraud" is extreme and incorrect in this situation.

Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JeffS] #513713
Fri Feb 14 2014 01:29 PM
Fri Feb 14 2014 01:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,349
MICHIGAN
Steven C. Offline
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Steven C.  Offline
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It's about the downstream guy!! Not the person buying this piece today. It's about the preservation of the authentic. Unmarked/undated fantasy/repop pieces pervert the future of the hobby.
Get it??


Steve Coppens
Always interested in Sunoco items!
Really want a Sunoco National pump ad glass!!
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JeffS] #513717
Fri Feb 14 2014 01:45 PM
Fri Feb 14 2014 01:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline OP
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Bob Richards  Offline OP
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Longview, WA
Jeff, are you a Collector, a Decorator, a "Picker" or...?

I am a Collector. Been one for multiple decades...

In my opinion, I am 100% correct...

I believe that most Collectors feel the same about those that make "Unmarked" items; Items that can be passed off as originals by future Sellers; Because the items have no markings showing that they are not old nor original...


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JeffS] #513740
Fri Feb 14 2014 03:01 PM
Fri Feb 14 2014 03:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,100
Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
JimT Offline
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JimT  Offline
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Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: JeffS
It's clear that the seller is making the signs to order. Calling him a "fraud" is extreme and incorrect in this situation.
He's making limited unmarked reproduction items for a profit. What would the proper name or term be?

Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JimT] #513746
Fri Feb 14 2014 03:48 PM
Fri Feb 14 2014 03:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 275
Manassas, VA
JeffS Offline
Petro Enthusiast
JeffS  Offline
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Posts: 275
Manassas, VA
fraud [frawd]
noun

deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.

- Bottom line, this seller is doing nothing deceitful. He CLEARLY states that the signs are made to order. Anyone that takes one of his signs and pawns it off as original would be the fraud.

Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Steven C.] #513750
Fri Feb 14 2014 04:07 PM
Fri Feb 14 2014 04:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 275
Manassas, VA
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Manassas, VA
Originally Posted By: Steve C.
It's about the downstream guy!! Not the person buying this piece today. It's about the preservation of the authentic. Unmarked/undated fantasy/repop pieces pervert the future of the hobby.
Get it??


Yes, I "get" your comment. My point is that the seller is in no way being fraudulent, as the OP stated in the title of this thread. The potential fraud would be downstream.

Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JeffS] #513753
Fri Feb 14 2014 04:42 PM
Fri Feb 14 2014 04:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,349
MICHIGAN
Steven C. Offline
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Steven C.  Offline
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The use of the word "fraud" could in fact be debated here. I can give you that.
But I still find it disrespectful to the hobby to produce unmarked/undated pieces. If you believe in preserving history and authenticity, there is never an excuse for that practice.


Steve Coppens
Always interested in Sunoco items!
Really want a Sunoco National pump ad glass!!
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Steven C.] #513765
Fri Feb 14 2014 05:37 PM
Fri Feb 14 2014 05:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
i wonder if he paying royalties on the rights to use all these different logos....If he does one of H-D , they may be at his door soon....not sure if its illegal, but he could be held accountable in civil court.....

Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: roadrelics] #514196
Sun Feb 16 2014 11:23 AM
Sun Feb 16 2014 11:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 275
Manassas, VA
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Manassas, VA
I totally agree that the duplication of these signs could be illegal, depending on copyright laws.

Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: JeffS] #519794
Tue Mar 11 2014 08:52 AM
Tue Mar 11 2014 08:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,818
Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Dave's Garage Offline
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Dave's Garage  Offline
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Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Fraud is a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

Vintage style sign is not as clear as metal sign with vinyl graphics applied. Selling copyright protected/intellectual property without a proper licensing agreement in place isn't exactly stellar or lawful behavior.

The guy is an opportunist with no regard for the hobby, purchaser or anyone else. It's all about money...greed. In my books he is a crook, fraudster amongst many other things. Definitely not someone I would be defending. I'm with Bob.


Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Dave's Garage] #519808
Tue Mar 11 2014 10:38 AM
Tue Mar 11 2014 10:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,369
Parkersburg, WV 26101
Keystone Gas Man Offline
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Keystone Gas Man  Offline
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Parkersburg, WV 26101
Just date the darn things!!


Looking for Keystone,Pure,Sinclair,Texaco,Sterling and Gulf...Thanks, Brian
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Keystone Gas Man] #519958
Tue Mar 11 2014 08:04 PM
Tue Mar 11 2014 08:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,628
Cataula, Georgia, USA
Catauladave Online content
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Catauladave  Online Content
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Cataula, Georgia, USA
How does anyone know that these signs are not dated or marked ? It would actually be to the manufacturers best interest to do to encourage repeat business. I did not see any close-up photos or evidence to suggest that they were or were not. Dave


Dave Jones
It's All Just Stuff
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Catauladave] #520061
Wed Mar 12 2014 10:04 AM
Wed Mar 12 2014 10:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline OP
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Bob Richards  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Dave, I contacted the Seller.... Before I started the thread...


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Catauladave] #520669
Sat Mar 15 2014 04:13 AM
Sat Mar 15 2014 04:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 569
Augusta, Maine, USA
Maxgas Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Maxgas  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 569
Augusta, Maine, USA
Looser, selling JUNK!


-MAXGAS-
Looking for Independent Gas & Oil, Oilzum,& Early FORD dealership items.
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Maxgas] #533250
Mon May 05 2014 02:59 PM
Mon May 05 2014 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 194
White Deer, Tx. USA
R
rd_signs Offline
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rd_signs  Offline
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R
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 194
White Deer, Tx. USA
And some of the repops do have dates as original, Texaco, Pure, and Shamrock, come to mind. Some even have the original sign company name,right in the porcelain as original..Do Not tell me that is NOT intent to deceive.


R D
Re: Another fraud making unmarked signs [Re: Catauladave] #555829
Thu Jul 24 2014 06:43 PM
Thu Jul 24 2014 06:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3
Olympia Wa.
Standard Gas&Oil Offline
Member
Standard Gas&Oil  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3
Olympia Wa.
These guys are notorious "Shill bidders" check out the bidding history from others before you buy one their fake signs.

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