Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion RETAIL

I have been noticing over the past couple years that some people have been posting "retail" price comments. Everyone has their own way of buying/selling/bartering and the book price that is usually outdated shortly after it's published only shows value. It does not show a wholesale/retail value and to me it's a gimmick some here are promoting.Until someone can convice me I'm wrong there are no wholesale/retail values on our collectible petro items. You may find someone not aware of their petro item and shoot them that line but don't try it on here. We are pretty aware of our values and that is the price we set, not the supposedly retail price.

i only speak for myself... but I recently used the term retail when posting a wanted ad for a globe. My intent in using it was to simply imply that I would give a fair price price for it (probably somewhere inline with the top price listed in Scotts guide).

So if you had the globe I wanted (in good condition) and its listed at a value of 350-550... I might give $550-$650.

But I do agree with you, that there is no retail price. The three methods to determine the supposed 'retail' value would be ebay, auctions, & shows - all 3 vary drastically IMO.

You forgot one. Wholesale/Retail/Picker prices.

IMO most auction prices are retail as an auction house/ebay is a retail business/market....If you can buy an item for 1/4 of the "going rate" I consider that to be.

A. A smokin deal
B. a wholesale price.

Paying full current market prices for items is paying retail..buying smart and paying way less then the current market value is wholesale.

With a Live auction you Don't have 5 minutes to make a dissension or a bid retraction, you bid you bought it.
Most of ebay is a OLD FISH MARKET, selling to [UN-Educated] Suckers.
Few items posted in For Sale by Want-to-be Fool Time flippers rarely sell after a week for 3/4 of listed prices.

Anyone who has ever bought anything is familiar with and has paid retail price. A retail price is simply a price paid to a retailer by a consumer. It is determined by the purchaser and the retailer.

In order for a retailer to make a profit on an item, there is a mark-up on the item being sold. Wholesale price is the price that the retailer purchased the item for originally.

In my opinion, retail price has nothing to do with value. I feel people are mistaken when they consider retail and value to mean the same.

Someone may pay a retailer $10.00 for an item. When in fact, the item may be worth less or more then $10.00.

For me retail is what a brick and mortar operation would price an item for browsers of their store, that includes a commensurate mark-up from purchase to cover business expenses and profit.

Auction price is not retail, whether in person or via online sales (ebay,proxibid,etc). The realized price is an inflated value including auction fees and auction frenzy or lack of frenzy.

Wholesale price is a value based on sellers acquisition price plus an amount determined by the knowledge of both Auction & Retail prices the individual is familiar with.

A good example is a recent question about an 5ft ESSO sign in the value section.

A Retail price might be $800-1200 depending on where the retail operation is setup at.

An Auction price might be $400-1500 depending on auction house and whether there is serious bidder competition.

A Wholesale price might be $450-$650 depending on where the sign is being offered and what the seller originally paid for it with a small mark-up based on their knowledge of the Retail/Auction values.

If you are a "Gas Pump Heaven" and you sell $3000 worth of stuff per day you have a retail and a wholesale price. If you have one item for sale, you have a retail price.

Dave stated above that a wholesale price is what a retailer pays for a item, if it was the seller wouldn't last long in any business. A wholesale price is what a retailer can sell a quantity of items for and still make a profit.

There are no prices in a hobby, what we pay is what two people can agree on.

I recently sold two cigarette machines for less than I had in them. I had looked at them for over 10 years and they were just taking up room, regardless of price they had to go, but that same week I sold a few other items and at the end of the week I had made a profit. Having made a profit I could now buy something I wanted.

Jack Sim

Lots of different takes on what wholesale and retail mean, so here is my 2 cents worth -

Retail - The price charged by the seller to the ultimate consumer for goods and services

Discounted retail - A lesser price charged by the seller for volume sales. Typically smaller margin.

Wholesale - The price paid by the seller to purchase from a distributor or manufacturer.

Things get a little more convoluted when applied to the old collectibles market as there is no distributor or manufacturer or a constant stream of goods to purchase. In this case the definitions change somewhat.

Retail - remains the same

Discounted retail - Very similar to the above definition, but may be a group of items that are "bundled" together.

Wholesale - The price we would all like to pay, something below the "retail" value of the item allowing the buyer to mark it up if sold to the end user or collector. Or just a bargain !!

IMO anyway.

Mr. Simm said it right,There are no prices in a hobby, it's what two people agree on. Since the overwhelming majority of us operated this way in days gone bye it's still good for me. I understand all the rest, repro parts etc, pickers that have entered into the what used to be a hobby only here. There has always been since my first day in the hobby just a price. Period. This late coming wholesale/retail talk is way to commercial.

I overheard 2 separate conversations @ Iowa Gas once that made me chuckle..
Two guys agreeing,it's not what a person paid for it,but what he can get.
Later that day I overheard,"It's not what someone can get,but what they have in it".

Terry, I think what is meant by retail/wholesale is just approx. high and low values in the price range of a particular item. Kind of like if you could maybe buy item for X (wholesale)its a good deal or you should be able to sell it for/or the current value is, about Y. (Retail). Or if you are buying it for Y, (To keep for yourself) this price (Y) would be about right. Thats all-just verbage (Or garbage?)high/low values to get a point across in print. Not trying to derail here but the Wholesale,Retail concept is far less frustrating to me than trying to accept the individuals who are in our hobby for the conquest or ego trip of just getting into as many peoples pocket as possible and could really care less about the hobby. If they could flip petrified donkey ***** they'd flip petrified donkey *****.

You guys nailed it and JimT broke the hammer handle doing it. I guess the hobby has come to the point where money and total excess rules. Maybe I'll turn into a greedy, lying, throw it into a box and send it anyway "collector", seems to be normal now.
Maple syrup season is about to start here in northern WI. Snow has to drop 2 feet before I can get to the trees first. Will start washing up equipment to be ready when the weather gets better, hope to be really busy the next month or so. Later guys.

I let my buyers determine the "retail" value based on what the item sells for or what offer is accepted. I never claim to know "retial" or "wholesale" values.

No matter what anyone says, all of this stuff is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It is when a items sells that true value can be determined AS A BASIS ONLY. I have seen many times the same sign sell for $1200 one week and $650 the next.

You guys think too hard! Buy it if you like it and are comfortable with what you are paying, no matter what purpose you have for it once in your posession.

...a notorious flipper - who's known mainly for asking ridiculous prices for his stuff - graced Mason-Dixon with his presence this past week...he sauntered up to our table, and started fiddling with a 1910's cigar sign that a buddy of mine had for sale...he asked how much it was, and my friend told him (truthfully) '$100 - that's what I have in it'...after being told that, the flipper countered with an offer of $75...

...now, this sign had a great look to it - it wasn't mint, but I think it was easily worth $150...

...anyway, when my friend told him, 'c'mon - I told you what I had in it, the sign's worth what I'm asking,' etc., the flipper replied, 'but at $100 I can't make $25 off of it'...

...I grabbed the flipper's shoulder, and told him as calmly as I could, 'that's not HIS problem' and took a walk around the show to cool off...

My definition was of more a commercial version having operated both wholesale and retail businesses in the past.

In the collector world it is far more fluid. I recently bought a pump at a well attended auction. I had the high bid, having outbid several dealers, so in that place, at that time, I paid retail!

I think of "retail" as the higest price I think I could get for an item. I like picking and I think it's the funnest thing in the world, but when someone tells me what they have into an item, I'm not going to counter offer with a lower bid so that they lose money.

I don't mind people using the term "retail" because it's just a business term. If someone wants to make a business out of something they love then why not

If I want something bad enough I just buy it if I can afford it . Most my stuff I gave more than it really probably is worth , so the retail / wholesale thing to me is hogwash . Retail sounds to much like a shoe or clothing store term , has this term always been in this hobby or something that's came along with all the TV picker hipe ? I am in it because I like it and will pass it on to my children hopefully .

Truth spoken right there Travis!

for me book prices are all wrong, they take prices from auctions which are mostly unreal

for giving value of a sign I see for how much a sign is selling on ebay or elsewhere in shows and I make an average price of what could be the value to have a price range of what to pay if I see this sign for sale and depending the condition the price can drop from the value I have in mind

for exemple an original texaco firechief porcelain sign in good condition sold between 100 $ and 150 $ on ebay so I have an average value of 120 $ for one in good condition so when you see one for sale at 450 $ you clearly know it's a scam

I have a way of seeing items for sale for now, if they put a really high price don't buy it, they need our money but we can wait to find another one for a better price, right ? usually I see here in europe seller asking sky prices for items but one year or two years later they still have the item...

The cream is coming to the top now, read it pickers and flippers?

Mark,
I would have taken it from him, placed it on table & said It's not For Sale, just showing it.
Then place a new sticker on 3X the original asking price.

Or stomped it!

How about a long diatribe on the subject?
Agree, disagree, disregard....

regardless...

Grab your beer and enjoy!


Retail is a valuation when that which is sold is at a point where all it's average nominal value is being consumed. Wholesale is a valuation where that which is sold is at a point where there is still substantial value left which has not been consumed.

There are price guides in many fields of collecting, values are established in these guides by either arbitrary standards, comparative standards, or observed standards or some combination thereof. An author of such guides can choose any method they desire. The better guides, like Kovels, publishes auction values over many years. They are the most verifiable information available, albeit they can be inflationary or deflationary in nature over time and location. Arbitrary values are often seen in self-published guides when an author makes assumptions of value not upon fact but upon arbitrary feelings of what something might be worth. Comparative values are used when similar items though not identical are given equivalent values based on expectation.

There is no denying that in any collectors mind something is only "worth" what they are willing to pay for it. However, because there are often many collectors vying for the same item due to desirability, scarcity, or rarity, "worth" can be measured by upward and downward changes in values exchanged for items. Averaging these pressure changes to "worth" results in values one can call "Retail"; being a value that the average gathering of collectors is willing to pay at the top of their "worth" range.

On a recent trip to Detroit I was asked about availability and prices for Neon beer signs. When I told the gentleman what the local market was like he was astonished since our local valuations were well below his area except for the most established brands. Our "retail" was his "wholesale" for all but the established brands which were nearly identical. Thus, fluctuations in what is considered Retail vs Wholesale are possible, but not unanimous.

Whether a person decries the idea of a "retail" value is of little consequence, the fact remains there are values well observed within the collecting communities that are established normalized prices and ranges of prices. These have upward and downward pressures adjusting them occasionally, and it happens that currently they are on the upswing. This upswing is disconcerting to some so they feel ill at ease when terms are used like "retail". However, since the market is more than simple hand-to-hand deals, it is accurate to describe some sales as "retail" when the value has met the normal high range of "worth" and the exchange of money for the item is over the counter or on some non-auction website.

As stated in the beginning, the term Retail denotes average nominal consumption of the value of the item. The buyer assumes ownership without intent of immediate resale for a higher amount. The item is added to ones collection for enjoyment. Whether the item value depreciates or increases is not of major importance, rather it is exchanged for the perceived value of ownership of the item.

End of diatribe.

Put empty beer can down and go look at another thread for a while!

Retail means nothing anymore in the world of "I seen one on ebay for $$$$$."

If the seller is so confident that it will bring someone's ridiculous asking price, put it on ebay with no reserve. Chances are good, if you made them a fair offer, you will be within less than 30% of the "retail" price that the particular item warrants.

The people who live off this or are scared that someone might get a deal, for some reason can't comprehend that fact that by the time they pay ebay, paypal and shipping commission, they are probably below what they were offered originally.

This past year I offered a guy $8,000.00 for a Sinclair Aircraft 48" sign that was a 8.5-9.0 in condition. He wasn't offended by this offer, but his reply was one just sold in Ohio at auction for $11,500. He gave $1,000.00 for it(it was still hanging in Illinois). After a while he realized that I wasn't out of line on my offer. So one sold for 12k, at an auction that probably charged at least 20% commission, and you have to ship it there or deliver it. Now my offer is within 15% of what that sign actually brought at auction.

If your worried about losing a dollar, you should not be in the "retail" business.

BS, It's DICKERING.

As Chad said;

Get your own TV show, production Money will offset your Failures!