Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Firestone Sign Question

Can anyone tell me what these holes are for? They are 1/2" diameter and have grommets around the outside. Was there another way of mounting thing sign?

Clips for neon... nice find!

Nice sign,Rob! Weather is getting better,think I'll have to make the trip down soon!

I showed a picture of Rob's sign to a friend of mine (with permission) who is a long time veteran and very well respected in the hobby of quality neon work, and his reply was I'm 99.9% sure this was never a neon sign. I understand no one is perfect and he could be wrong, so I'm just communicating what I was told.

Does anyone have an old photo of this exact sign hanging with neon?

If it was neon, where are the holes for the insulators?....perhaps in the can? Possible, but haven't seen that sort of configuration before.

holes are not for neon

Did FIRESTONE make any signs w/ Neon on outside perimeter only?

We discussed essentially the same sign some time back. Personally I still believe they are neon mounting points. Whether this is part of a larger assembly I do not know, though in that thread you'll see a picture with an overhead canopy which could account for neon being fed through a different point rather than through the face of the sign itself.

If you do a Google search you will see one of these that has neon on it but it's modern neon work and no one yet has posted any definitive proof that it is or isn't neon.

The idea that these are "alternate" mounting points I have an issue with mainly because the way the sign is lettered you would have expected a mounting hole not to be in one of the letters for a NON-Neon sign whereas many neons do have holes in the lettering.

I have tons of early pictures with these signs and not one has neon. We could all just be blowing this out of proportion..it just could have been a way they were stamped. The funny thing is how many of this version do you see that is double sided.??? Not many....and some of the ones i have seen do not have the white border. They were probably bolted back to back in hangers. Someone said something bout the holes holding catseye marbles but i have no proof.

Different version extra holes

Thank you everyone. Been in the hobby many years but this one with these holes has me totally stumped. Again thank you to all. Rob

Last 2 pic's posted by 57TB shows the extra holes when you toggle in/enlarge pictures.

I stayed up last night and did what CAROLINASKIES said and google this sign. Almost everyone I came across had chips all around the enamel where this sign obviously was either mounted or had something attached to it. We all know it takes a little power to chip porcelain. I realize it is not neon from 57 TBIRD , but for the life of me I cannot figure out what went in those holes. One suggested it may have been stamped that way. Seems a waste of time if the holes were not used. Maybe the answer is lost to history I guess. Thanks for everyone's help here, I appreciate it. Rob

I'm going to take a guess at this, as that's all we can do; till we come up with some photographs that will definitively lay this issue to rest.

I'm looking at the photograph that 57tbirdkid posted. To me it appears as it the sign has a wooden frame around it. Would it be fair to assume that the smaller holes around the perimeter are to secure the wooden frame? The larger holes in turn are to secure the sign to the surface it was being mounted to i.e. wall/building. In my opinion, pre-drilled mounting holes aren't too great a stretch of the imagination. It was not as easy to drill holes in the field as it is today.

good logical answer..

Makes sense to me Dave. They had to be used for something or why waste the time to drill them in the first place? Thanks for helping. This sign must cover a long period of time as having a mixed period car collection, I see in the photographs older thin width tires such as T size yet in the other photo early 30s possible 32 or 33s that would fit my 26,000 mile original 33 coupe. (5.25/5.50-17).
FREE CASE OF BEER AT IOWA GAS TO ANYONE THAT CAN COME UP WITH A PICTURE OF THIS SIGN MOUNTED BY THE INSIDE HOLES !

didn't some of these come with "chrystals" like the stop signs? could it be for them?

Signs which used such would have had many holes... in this case we are talking a total of 8 holes.

To the previous response, yes those outer holes are for a wood frame, but it's just as easy to put hangers in the wood frame as having holes in the sign itself (consider all the horizontal & vertical porcelain signs we see that only have the outer holes for that purpose.

I would think there must be some order book somewhere that shows this sign. The internet has much information but there are far more paper documents that have never been scanned into OCR or other imaging systems.

Just a thought. I wondered if the sign could have also been used on the ends of a tire rack or on the side panels of delivery trucks. What are the hole centers going horizontal? Maybe they are the same measurement as wall stud centres?

Hmm.... first Firestone Neon sign in that color/era i've ever seen.....

Ok Daryl here you are: Measurement between grommets on outside edge of sign in white is 10 in center to center

top 1/2 inch holes in question are 32 in center to center

Middle 1/2 in holes in question are 45 inches center to center

Of course another middle and then bottom row same as two above

Said sign is 4 ft wide by 20 in tall

Sign in blue enamel is made by BALTIMORE ENAMEL,200 FIFTH AVE.N.Y. right hand bottom corner in the white border.
Questioned holes are all porcelain inside so were factory drilled then porcelain
Got me on this one guys. Why would anyone set up a special jig other than the grommets for these holes if never used. By the way, I have owned this sign over 20 yrs. But again, most of these signs including mine have small chips by some of the 1/2 holes showing they WERE USED for something. Good size bolt, lag, for something? Thanks for the help

I had done a lot of research on firestone signs when I first found mine . I was told mine was not double sided but two porcelain signs inside the frame. Of course I took mine apart and it is just one double sided sign. They must have made many different ones but the holes are strange.

coheley5, do you have the unused holes in your sign?

I also think it was used on a tire rack, Holes are wrong for neon or cats eyes.

Seems like to todays standards the 32" would work for 16" stud centres but older buildings from what I have seen used 24" stud centres so this doesn't fit. As far as the tire rack theory it could be a possibility but the measurement seems too wide to hold tires. I would assume using 1/2" holes that the sign would be incorporated into the rack structure. Most early tires had a 30" outside diameter so unless the cross beams in the rack were narrower the tire would just fall through.

Your dead on Daryl. With 1/2 in holes, the company must have had thoughts of mounting these on a building. (that is a large hole for just a tire rack or something), Like I said on another post, there are small chips on several of the 1/2 in holes on mine and definitely were used. For what I don't think we will ever know. I offered a case or two of beer at Iowa GAS to anyone that could produce a picture of this sign mounted - no takers. My sign had to be mounted with the small chips right beside the holes but it is a mystery that no photos seem to exist of it in that state. Guess I will just look up on the wall and always wonder. My dad's tire racks in his Texaco stations with the BIG tires of the 50s never would have been wide enough for this sign. Just like my car and gas collection - if only they could talk what stories we would hear. Thanks to all. Rob

Sorry for thr slow answer but there are no extra holes in my sign only the bolt holes around the outside edge.

Def a nice sign but does not look like neon whole. Looks like some sort of wholes to mount it somewhere. Where is the question?

Good find...!