Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Online Auctions, eBay Craigslist Petroliana Reverse Glass Red Indian Sign

ebay 131216853513

Its moving up fast but if you add things up you just may decide not to bid.

1. Found in Iowa (supposidly)
2. Seller seems to have a lot of reverse glass items from John Deere to you name it, and glass mirrors...all vintage of course.
3. Seller has one neutral for selling repop item and not saying so.

Very EASY decision IMO...;)

I agree....

very interesting good catch on the feedback Kim . Early painted would have more than likely been made in Toronto.No maker noted soooooooooo . Its not looking good .

So this particular sign is a repo but they did make this style? The things that caught my eye was the "droopy" nose and the more pronounced back eye lash. But by all means I am still quite green in this hobby.

Flea

I have yet to see in all my years a reverse glass piece but that does not mean they do not exist . I have a large number of red indian station pics and not one showing a reverse glass window . But again .............................

Here's my thought. If the company that made this piece clearly marks it as " Made for McColl-Frontenac Oil Co. Limited Canada" then why would this company not include their company name as the maker. Pride of craftsmanship is not evident here.

I am assuming this was made to be used in a light box. Am I correct?

Thanks,

Hen

Well, there are 8 bidders that have it up over $800 so far.
Probably one of those deals that we'll never really know the answers about.

Read the small print at the very end of the ebay description, tells you all you need know.
In my opinion this sign was made to fool but you know what they say about a fool and his money...

I did not read that disclaimer until today. That lets the seller out of alot of things but still doesnt justify deception wether he is aware of it or not.

A disclaimer info is no excuse for Ignorance

Should not let the seller out of anything, he knows what he is selling, shows him for exactly what he is.

Here's sellers disclaimer;

"It is the bidders sole responsibility to determine condition, age, genuineness, value, or any other determinative factor. No items have been authenticated. Bidder shall be the sole judge of value. Bidder agrees that everything is sold 'AS IS', 'AS FOUND', or 'AS PURCHASED' and may not return any item. Payment is required within three days of the end of the auction. Due to the age of some of the items, not every single imperfection or flaw may be noted, but wear or obvious defects will be described in general or specific terms. ALL SALES ARE FINAL."

Intent is to deceive and shift responsibility. Seller's deceptive nature is further highlighted by the tiny font and all the spaces entered between the description. Have scroll down to see them.

After reading that BS most potential bidders would move on or at least I would.

Will that disclaimer standup to a refund thru PayPal?

NO, it does not matter what is written or shown, if a buyer wants to return for a refund they pretty much get it.

Currently at a whopping $6300!!!!!

$9600 oh *****

WOW

Well, for someones sake, I sure hope it was a real piece!

UNBELIEVABLE!

You would think, that if someone was about to spend $10,000.00 on a sign, they would have done a bit of research...

Seeing, that the originality of the sign cannot be truly authenticated by anyone here on OldGas, would lead me to believe that it's fantasy...

Maybe its real...but who knows....

The seller did not list it as original...but sure played with words in the ad...

I say...Shame on the buyer, for laying out that kind of cash on a questionable sign..

The big question is....if the sign cannot be proven, or disproven as authentic... would Ebay, or Paypal...refund money to anyone with buyer's remorse..

Did someone say "A fool and his money"....you can bet at that price there will be more red indian "REVERSE GLASS" items coming on the market soon.....LOL

& Just Maybe same seller!

Yep...the guys in Argentina and India are working on it already!

MAYBE they will do a better job w/ Glass than they have w/ Porcelain & Steel!

I think, they already have...this was, their first test sale! By the looks of it; it was a success.

I know buyers need to beware, but sellers have some responsibilities too.

I sent a message to the seller asking him nicely to revise the ad to help buyers that are less educated.... unfortunately, no response to my message and no change to the ad. A truly amazing amount of cash for something that has yet to be verified. I hope for the buyers sake that he/she has a photo or info we don't have to prove us all wrong.

Sold again but a lot less. Why would it sell for close to $10000 first time and then $500

Anyone understand why sold so much first time then this time nothing

?????? did this sign come back on again ??? Thanks

I don't see it listed...

My dad said he saw it on again, this one looked to be in better shape.. Maybe it was the same one cleaned up????

here you go- 9100. less..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-Indian-Motor...a-/131290059559

Yea was same sign cleaned up I'm at a loss why would it bring $9600 the nobody care and it bring $500 where were all the buyers from the past auction

From the description:

"Vintage, old, rare, Red Indian Motor Oils reverse glass sign."

From the disclaimer:

"I am not an expert in this area and I am making no claims to authenticity; this item has not been authenticated. I don't know if this is authentic or a reproduction but certainly appears to be old and vintage with wear consistent with age. As stated in the description above, it is the bidders responsibility to determine age and genuineness, value and condition using the photos provided."

The seller is POS seller.

Look at sellers completed auctions for glass advertising and the wooden boxes. Another low life into ripping people off.

Interesting . It sure cleaned up good lol . I do know of one original reverse on glass that exists . It is signed by the original artist and he worked for McColl Frontenac . That is the only legit one I know of , This piece was used for artwork only . Any maker would have signed his reverse glass if he was going to put " made for McColl Frontenac "

I purchased this sign thought I would take a chance I received it today I'm no expert but am positive it is old glass if it is not real they did a amazing job on it cause it looks real to me as I said I'm no expert but the quality of it is top notch I am going to try and bring it to Indy to have Dan Matthews check it out if I can make the show

Do us all a favor and engrave reproduction into that piece of glass.

Did you not check the sellers other items?

Just wondering, why would anyone of sound mind bid on that? I thought you were trying to rebuild trust in the hobby. Buying reproduction signs in the hopes of having someone authenticate it as real is not cool. Enough knowledgeable people have posted in this thread to convince a prudent individual away from it.

Also wondering why, you brought this post back to the top. Makes me question your motives. Circumstances don' make a man....they reveal him. Why would anyone who has suffered some of the criticism and loss of credibility and reputation that you have in the past throw himself into a situation involving an oblivious fake sign.

By your own admission you are no expert on glass signs. But you feel it is real. Your opinion has no weight because by your admission you don't have the skills to state whether it is real or not. Now, you are hoping that someone else who lacks the ability to authenticate that sign will make a similar statement so you can run with it. Not difficult to find so called experts who like to exaggerate their own abilities. Just like all the other fools that sell reproduction/fantasy signs on e-Bay as real and state I showed it to so and so and they said it's real. Now, you have once again shown yourself to be like those folks. Again, I ask; Why would you submit yourself to such a situation. Greed is a terrible thing, a human flaw that can never be erased from the DNA of those that are inflicted with it.

A few weeks ago you were having panic sales because of a medical issue with your child. Would have been wiser to save your money for rainy days and unforeseeable life events then fakes glass signs.

For the sake of the person you hope to rip off someday by the sale of this sign...I hope you drop it and it breaks into a million pieces.

Thanks so much for your opinions Dave like I said I decided to take a shot grow what I read on here nobody could confirm its authenticity or completely deny it in hand I assure u it has age the glass is old...I will show it to others to let them tell me what they think I feel Dan Matthews opinion means something he sells tons of very high end items...if he feels its not real it will hang in my house ..I will not try and sell it without getting better opinions so please don't try calling me out for no reason.

Showed it to Matthews & Morphy both was told it is definitely old they dated it 1950's and said they felt it was reproduced of one of the signs but wasn't something made the other day it had major age to it

repro from 1950's or 1990's does not make a difference, still the same useless piece.

Glass may be old but the paint ain't

An old repro is a repro, as is a new repro is a repro! They are one in the same. They were never made for or used by the company they are labeled for, but are simply the product of someones imagination. A repro is a repro is a repro--plain and simple!

Not a repro. Fantasy.

I still like it either way so no buggy to me I have a couple others that have offered me a pretty nice profit on it knowing it is a old fantasy piece.so I'm happy with it either way

and that's what it's all about......or is it?

without being properly marked as a fantasy piece... it is bound to fool an unsuspecting buyer in the future, even if you sell it for what it is.

if I was rich with unlimited funds, I'd offer you your money back just to have a shattering party with it at Iowa Gas next year... seems like something DB would be proud of.

No I'm planning to hang it in my house right now is what I'm saying I'm happy with it for myself its not always about the money I have many items I could turn profit on but I like the so I hang onto them to display for myself

Guys the company only stopped using the Red Indian name around 1950 .I have calendars and pics of the signs up after 1946 . So why would anyone repro a sign in he 5o"s that makes NO sense . Someone out there knows the truth . Again I tell myself and other guys look at the old pics . Ask the old guys that lived it . Chances are you will make out alright .

sit tight, surely it will be coming to an auction near you soon. whether ebay, kiji, local auction house, craigslist, facebook, etc. remember its ALL about the money

It would take a darn good piece of hard evidence to convince me it's not a fantasy piece. No hear say or old timer talk for me on this one.

I would sure hate to have some of these guys on OLDGAS sitting on a jury ,, GUILTY, without any evidence either way,, " It is what it is "... this is still a free country to buy what you like and do what you want,, not like some of those country's that are at war all the time. This is North America !!

Amen Wes.......whoever wants to spend their money on whatever is still legal...as far as I know anyway.

i dont think anyone cares that Randy bought it... they just dont want to see it used to fool more people in the future - thats all.

imagine if no one ever bought or resold any signs from India... we wouldn't be in the situation we are now with those signs. the problem is, someone sees a heavy porcelain sign from India that they can get for $100 and they know that they can fool someone into paying $500 once they are selling it as a US-based seller. and then greed ensues.

If, I was those guys...I'd be pretty angry that you had dragged my good name into your self serving greedy little venture.

Wasn't too long ago they were tricked by a Hobby Lobby Ford pail. They thought it was also from the 50's.

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=554217&page=all

I'm not dragging anyone threw the mud at least they were nice enough to take the time to look at it I understand there will always be a few on here who are stuck in there ways with there hrsd up there ***** but I will not let u few bother me I have actually had multiple members on here contact me about this piece that really like it good or bad and have made offers to buy it as it is but right now I will probably hang onto it

So far from what I have read on this blog, NOBODY has proven it to be repro or original so why do some have it carved in stone that it is repro,,, to me it's ok to have an opinion on whether it's original or repro.
BUT telling someone what they should buy or not buy and you hope he drops it and breaks it into a million pieces ? Really ?

Fellas--This has been a good discussion on this piece up until some of you let personal feelings take over.
If you want to continue discussion of the item, that is fine, but if personal issues continue, the thread will be locked.

All I want to say is that Dan Morphy and I told the man that it was not a period piece. It was probably made in the 1960's to the 1970's judging from the back of the item. We both told him it was not original piece. Dan

Thanks, Dan for your input.... And your "Clarification"; as to what was actually told to the Member about the piece by you and Dan...

Caught in a lie again....

I believe Mattgas. Once again, original poster's version differs from what was actually stated. Simply put, some people can't be trusted and are not credible and will distort information to fit their personal needs/pad their wallets.

Like, I stated before; Greed is a terrible thing, a human flaw that can never be erased from the DNA of those that are inflicted with it.

Man u really got me wow let's see I said they said it was old wow the did then I said they said it was a reproduction and they did boom dude u caught me man that was a huge lie ...wow I messed with the wrong guy( Sherlock Holmes) over here watch out I'm over arguing with u people like u are not worth the time I'm happy with it that's all that matters

You were told it "was probably made in the 1960's to 1970's". You related to us "was told it is definitely old they dated it 1950's".

They stated "We both told him it was not original piece". You claim "it is definitely old they dated it 1950's" "it had major age to it".

The above circumstances reveal a habitual l iar and someone who will distort factual information to fit and support their self serving motives.

Where is that guy with the cool avatar of the dead horse getting beat?

This topic has disintegrated from a discussion about the merits of this sign, to personal feelings about each other. I'm locking the topic from further discussion, so lets move on to something else.