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#544714 - Thu Jun 26 2014 01:18 PM robbery with a husky sign
ddkinsey Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Oct 03 2007
Loc: ca
Here is another one getting away with highway robbery. Check out completed listings and ID history.
201114089936

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#544722 - Thu Jun 26 2014 01:48 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: ddkinsey]
Neil Gerrard Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Dec 09 2003
Loc: Canby, Oregon
I've talked to him before, he knows better

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#544726 - Thu Jun 26 2014 02:20 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Neil Gerrard]
AZ_66_Native Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Jan 07 2014
Loc: AZ
Translation of a Seller listing any sign as RUSTIC BARN DECOR on ebay...

"I know this is an unmarked fake, repop, and/or fantasy sign that I just purchased for $20, but the average buyer doesn't...and I am not violating any ebay policies because I never say vintage or original within my listing..."



Edited by AZ_66_Native (Thu Jun 26 2014 02:21 PM)
_________________________
Aaron

Looking for National Old Trails Road Signs NOTR and Arizona State/US Route and Road Signs.

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#544727 - Thu Jun 26 2014 02:27 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: AZ_66_Native]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
More [MORON] buyers using HAND HELD DEVICES BIDDING ON ebay!
_________________________
Reproduction/Fantasy Cans
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p2/oldegaspump/AllCansMASTERTHUMBNAIL_zps4bfdbbc7.jpg
Rnd Can Re-lids


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#544734 - Thu Jun 26 2014 03:22 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Dick Bennett]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Diane, what is your beef?

The Seller started the sign out at $15... No where does he claim it is original...

In fact, he says in his Headline description that it is: "rustic barn decor"..... How is it his fault, that those bidding on it; have a collective IQ 4 points lower than roadkill?

Now, if the Seller had said that the sign was original, I could see your point... But, those bidding on the sign, are the brain dead ones... From what I see and read in the Auction description; the Seller has done nothing wrong....
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#544738 - Thu Jun 26 2014 03:41 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
I disagree Bob. Are you saying that if he continually puts new signs on that have been chipped and rusted to look old, puts a vague description in the listing, and they continually sell for huge money he is being honest? Look a little deeper Bob. Check his feedback. He's sold almost every repop pump plate they make, and for extremely high prices. They all happen to have the same look; rust, chips, etc. They also have vague descriptions. You can't tell me he isn't doing this with the intent to take money from some sucker. Also, the buyer was the same person almost every time. If you think he's not intentionally doing this you're being way too trusting. An honest person would say "reproduction" or "new" sign in the listing. Witholding known information in this type of situation is the same as lying in my opinion. The only good news is that it's been the same buyer most of the time, which is probably his second acct. Definitely something fishy going on. I've sold stuff on eBay before when I honestly didn't know if it was real or repop. My solution? Put in the description that I don't know if it's real or repop. Pretty easy to be straight forward. I would say that because I don't want anyone to assume false info due to a lack of description.

Pretty easy to test this guy for honesty. I will send him a question about the item asking if he knows if the sign is a vintage original sign, or new reproduction. I will also ask him to post the question and answer to the listing for all to see. If he doesn't do that, he's trying to keep the info under the radar, i.e. BEING DISHONEST.


Edited by gaswagon (Thu Jun 26 2014 09:44 PM)

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#544742 - Thu Jun 26 2014 03:45 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
Just sent him this question. Curious how he responds...

"Neat sign. I know you say it is used, and it obviously looks old with the rust and everything. Do you know if the sign is a vintage original sign or a newer sign that has been aged to look old? Please post this question and answer to your listing so others can see it as well. That will probably help you out if you have info indicating it is real. Thank you."

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#544747 - Thu Jun 26 2014 04:09 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
TJammer Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Dec 05 2012
Loc: North Bay Ontario
Although the seller does not indicate Vintage or Antique or the such...he is still using deceptive selling practices.

Words like "used".."rusty".."stained".."chipped"...make the sign appear authentic to the uneducated buyer, who wont take a bit of time to do research before bidding..They probably don't even take the time to find out that "Rustic Barn Décor" is not a term that real collectors use.

Those buyers are likely not in the hobby, and are just looking for what they think is an original sign for their mancave...
_________________________
Imperial Oil collector..

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#544754 - Thu Jun 26 2014 04:29 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: TJammer]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Originally Posted By: gaswagon
Witholding known information in this type of situation is the same as lying in my opinion.

EXACTLY

There is a member here that Forgets to mention in ebay auctions some cans have been re-rolled from Flats & Re-lidded, 1 can has original ends [centers] GLUED IN!
_________________________
Reproduction/Fantasy Cans
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p2/oldegaspump/AllCansMASTERTHUMBNAIL_zps4bfdbbc7.jpg
Rnd Can Re-lids


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#544756 - Thu Jun 26 2014 04:39 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: TJammer]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Somehow to use words such as rusty, stained, chipped... On a sign that is rusty, stained and chipped.... Is now being dishonest?

Unbelievable!

Rusty, stained, chipped are descriptive words of a condition... They have nothing to do with an item being authentic or fake!!!!

My head is ready to explode...

Tom, do you have multiple decades in this Hobby?---- I do... In fact, I have over 5 decades in this Hobby, to be exact...

You said, that: ""Rustic Barn Décor" is not a term that real collectors use". -- Strange but, I have been using a form of that term when I talk about Collectables for over 30 years.

But, maybe you are more of a "real collector", than I?





Edited by Bob Richards (Thu Jun 26 2014 04:49 PM)
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Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#544757 - Thu Jun 26 2014 04:54 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
TJammer Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Dec 05 2012
Loc: North Bay Ontario
Not so much dishonest..but deceptive..

Especially with the word "used"..

You put all that together, and it makes you think "old".."vintage"..

If they wanted to be accurate in their description, they would have put the word " reproduction"...or..."fantasy"..


Edited by TJammer (Thu Jun 26 2014 04:55 PM)
_________________________
Imperial Oil collector..

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#544758 - Thu Jun 26 2014 04:56 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
It's not the words he's using that is dishonest. It's the words he is NOT using that he knows would cause the sign to sell for an honest value (which is about 10x less.)

Bob, Here's an example. If I sold you a sign that LOOKED fantastic in the pictures. I said things like "has great gloss", or "no chips", and it looked 100% but you didn't have the ability to hold it in your hand before purchase. You paid a fair market price that sign typically brings, lets say $500, but when you received the sign it was a really well done painted sign. Not porcelain at all. Then I tell you "I never actually said it was porcelain." I'm confident you would be upset and feel cheated, since you paid a porcelain sign price for a painted fake.

To take it one step further, what if I had done that EXACT thing to multiple people multiple times? Would that be considered honest business? Not in my book. Hope that helps...


Edited by gaswagon (Thu Jun 26 2014 04:57 PM)

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#544760 - Thu Jun 26 2014 05:00 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
TJammer Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Dec 05 2012
Loc: North Bay Ontario
Holy Geeze...Bob..

I was only stating my opinion... No need to get all worked up over this..
You have your opinions, and I have mine..

Maybe you have spent too much time in the hobby..

Relax...Have a beer..
_________________________
Imperial Oil collector..

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#544762 - Thu Jun 26 2014 05:12 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: TJammer]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
In all fairness, the other side to this coin is that there are buyers that will do just about anything to justify buying a sign they want, including convincing themselves it's real.

In the early to mid 1990's, when eBay was brand spanking new, my dad and I were putting Andy Rooney porcelain signs in some neat aluminum powder-coated 18" neon clocks and selling them on eBay. We actually struggled with what to say to convince people these were NOT OLD CLOCKS! It was funny. No matter what we said in the description, people would convince themselves it was an old clock. We must have refunded money on hundreds of those things. Everyone was thinking they "found some rare old clock" on this new ebay website thingy. What a hassle that was! It didn't take long beofre others were doing the same but leaving the descriptions very vague and getting big money for them. It's just not right.

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#544766 - Thu Jun 26 2014 05:30 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
I agree totally, with what you are saying, Michael...

My point was that; I did not see where the Seller in this one instance; in this one auction was being deceptive...

I have no idea, if their other auctions have been deceptive?...

If in the future this Seller uses deceptive wording or infers that an item is original; when it is not... I would hope that Members would report that, to both ebay and to the Membership here....

But, if the Seller is not being deceptive in their auction... Why not leave them alone, until they do?....
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#544770 - Thu Jun 26 2014 05:39 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
Yup. You're right Bob. This seller has done this multiple times already. That's why he's ruffling some feathers. He does it repeatedly. That would lead me to believe he knows better...

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#544771 - Thu Jun 26 2014 05:43 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Probably... Maybe, he has caught enough flack (rightfully so it sounds, in most instances) that he is going to try and be honest... And if being honest, gets him these kind of sales on $20 signs... Who knows what the future will bring? LOL
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#544814 - Thu Jun 26 2014 09:17 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
ddkinsey Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Oct 03 2007
Loc: ca
My "beef" with this listing is:
The wording is meant to deceive he has sold all the 12" signs using the same wording. Worked before why change it?
At some point the people that have been ripped off are going to find out they got screwed. Well if you just got $1000's stolen from you by a dishonest seller would you still want to collect small gas signs? I think most people would not.
I have watched the value of door pushes go into the toilet because of sellers like this. What's next pump plates??
Its been impossible to stop this illegal and just plain dishonest practice on ebay.
There are times I wonder if I'm on the wrong side.
Let's see I could buy some of that bogus ***** and fantasy gas signs, chip and rust them some and then get $300++++ on ebay for them. I don't find it very funny.

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#544863 - Fri Jun 27 2014 12:11 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
FennecFox87 Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sun Jan 15 2012
Loc: Rocky Top U.S.A.
Why are we arguing, lets just stick together and report sign. Eventually it will be tossed. 1 2 3 go...

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#545012 - Fri Jun 27 2014 07:42 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: FennecFox87]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
Seller responded to my question:

"hi thank you. it's an original sign. Will write again with keyboard and post answer to help increase bid and explain how I know

- 54on20s"

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#545024 - Fri Jun 27 2014 09:29 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Just like some of the cans being listed as good/near excellant condition. How would you feel after paying & receiving a $400-800 item only to find it was a Repaired/Re-rolled Flat w/ Glued on ends?
IF it was described in description as being a repaired/re-rolled flat, at least you know before bidding.
_________________________
Reproduction/Fantasy Cans
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p2/oldegaspump/AllCansMASTERTHUMBNAIL_zps4bfdbbc7.jpg
Rnd Can Re-lids


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#545035 - Fri Jun 27 2014 10:42 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Dick Bennett]
bppierce Online   happy
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Aug 19 2007
Loc: Round Rock, Texas
Not on all reproduction/fantasy items, but for this sellers stuff the buyer has to take some responsibility. If you're going to pay $300 for a pumps sign, it takes about 20 seconds to see his sold stuff and realize it's all fake. If they can't do that, I can't feel too sorry for them.

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#545037 - Fri Jun 27 2014 10:52 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: bppierce]
Gasman84470 Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Jan 13 2013
Loc: Calgary AB
I too wrote the eBay lister. And his answer was nonsensical-
"the man said nobody been on out out of yard without him knocKing so it was from 1960 out earlier because he dad died and posed yard to him in 1967"
Crazy like a fox? Or a fractured attempt at English from a person not in North America?

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#545045 - Fri Jun 27 2014 11:22 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Gasman84470]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
He wants you to think he is a Homer Simpson!
But runs to bank like Bart.
_________________________
Reproduction/Fantasy Cans
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p2/oldegaspump/AllCansMASTERTHUMBNAIL_zps4bfdbbc7.jpg
Rnd Can Re-lids


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#545270 - Sat Jun 28 2014 11:32 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
FennecFox87 Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sun Jan 15 2012
Loc: Rocky Top U.S.A.
please report they will kick it off, not enough volume come on lets go oldgas members


Edited by FennecFox87 (Sat Jun 28 2014 11:32 PM)

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#545275 - Sun Jun 29 2014 12:17 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: FennecFox87]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Where have you been for 2 months?

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#545466 - Sun Jun 29 2014 09:10 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Dick Bennett]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
OK, he got back to me with "the rest of the story"...

"Hi, using real keyboard now. Anyway I think approx 50 years old because it was in a 60s station wagon in a junkyard to be crushed for scrap. The yard owner said the yard was passed down to him from his dad who died in 67. I said how long has the car been there, he said since shortly before his dad died. He said at the time the car was wrecked a few years after it was made and the parts weren't rare so crushing it was not a big deal. Since it didnt' get crushed already he decided to part it out because the parts were becoming in demand. He says nothing comes in or out of the yard without him or his dog knowing so I think the sign has been in the car since the 60s. Thank you"

Obviously more BS, so replied with another question:

"Where did all your other ones come from?"

He responded:

"this place- (then inserted 4 pics of what looks like an old junk yard or abandoned bldg.)"

I replied again with "Holy smokes! Is that where all the ones you've sold in the past have come from?"

........waiting for a reply.



All this info will be passed along to eBay. Reporting it is a good idea, I agree, but unfortunately I know from first hand knowledge that eBay does not have the resources to do anything about it other than end the auction. My intent is to have him investigated for fraud and hopefully send a strong message to all the other liars that are hurting our hobby (and investments).

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#545474 - Sun Jun 29 2014 09:29 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
More dialogue:

He answered my question with: "Yes sir. I took everything I could afford or that wasn't already sold and to big to go with new owner at time of paying for it. "

I asked another question: Could you do me a favor and measure the sign from outside edge to outside edge? Thanks. Sorry for all the hassle. This is lots of money for me and I want to be sure I'm doing my due diligence.

He responded: "I understand, that's fine. Exactly 11 3/4 inch."

All this dialogue will go to eBay's fraud team. Unbelievable. No, LITERALLY! UNBELIEVEABLE! lol.... I feel bad for the poor sucker paying almost $400 for this $15 sign.

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#545488 - Sun Jun 29 2014 10:18 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Don't feel to Sorry for anyone to LAZY to do a little searching BEFORE they Bid.
How many times in the past has the Brooklyn Bridge been Sold to Suckers?

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#545490 - Sun Jun 29 2014 10:37 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Michael,why?

If a Seller starts a sign at $15, and a bunch of idiots drive up the price... Why in the world would you feel sorry for the idiots who drove up the price?????

All one has to do is a little research... We all found Oldgas and The Pit, one way or another... Some came to Oldgas with quite a bit of knowledge, some came with a little knowledge, most came with no real knowledge...

I read these posts over and over.... And 90+% are posted by Members who have NO real knowledge! It has been asked over and over by those with some actual knowledge, why the "bee in the bonnet" over repops and fantasy items... And over and over I read the same BS... Because these signs are something new.... And hurt the Hobby... How in the ... (trying to watch my words)... Would any of you know what is hurting the Hobby... Unless you have some time in the Hobby and sometime is atleast a decade... You have no idea what helps or hurts this Hobby!....

Repops and fantasy items in the Petro world have been around since the early 1900s! When a Store Owner that had some money, installed a "factory made sign"... And the Store Owner across the street or down the road, had a local sign painter make a copy or a close facsimile... The repop/fantasy sign was "born"...

But, because you folks have no knowledge of what happened... 1 yr ago, 5 yrs ago, 10 yrs ago; let alone 30 years ago and 50+ yrs ago... Like some of us...

We are continuously bombarded with post after post after post... Saying: "They made/someone is selling another repop/fantasy sign..."

I don't know how to break it to you folks... But, the Hobby is not being hurt by these items!!!!

Only those who have no real knowledge of the History of this Hobby... Make those claims...

When the Hobby started... These items were worth NOTHING!!!!! People paid others to take them away!!! In the 1960s, they were still paying us to take them away... (yep, I've been in this Hobby since the early 1960s)

In the 1970s, these items were worth a little....

In the 1990s, these items were worth a little more.....

In the mid 2000s, some were worried that these items were losing value...

In 2013 and continuing in to 2014... People are complaining that prices are too high...

Folks, if most globes, signs, cans, pumps... etc... Had not been scrapped, used as landfill, used as targets by adults and children alike.... Prices would be low...

One of the most copied signs is the Standard Oil Kerosene with the Elephant.... I've read over and over here how since they have been 'popped; Members stay away from them... BULL!!!

I doubt if more than a handful of Members here have actually owned an original... And I also bet, that NONE OF THEM took a loss on their sign(s) because that the sign has been 'popped!!! (I know, I have never took a loss)

It is the same with globes and signs...

Those with no knowledge (mostly Non-Oldgas Members), "chase their tails, like puppies"... And I am grateful for that... It leaves, less people bidding against me on the items that; are original!....

It is up to the individual Members as to what is important to them... For me, the History of this Hobby... The stories behind the Company's that "died and those that survived" are what drives me...Also, the different time periods in the "Age of the Gas Station" interest me...

So if chasing repop/fantasy signs;...

(Which are legal to make and to sell, by the way...)

Are what you are getting out of this Hobby? More power to you....


Edited by Bob Richards (Sun Jun 29 2014 10:38 PM)
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#545499 - Sun Jun 29 2014 11:02 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
JUNK KING Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Feb 14 2013
Loc: Oklahoma
Well said .
_________________________
Seeking Knowledge and a Good Deal.
Always looking for neon signs and skins , Flying A ,& Wayne 60s.

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#545504 - Sun Jun 29 2014 11:14 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
Let's agree to disagree Bob. I know you wouldn't have the same attitude if you had a large Pam clock collection right now. Or if you purchased a high dollar sign only to find out it was fake and you could have bought it for $20. Making fake signs is legal, you're right. Selling them is legal too. Marketing fake signs as original's in order to take more money from the less-educated in the hobby is being a dirt bag. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. It's lying.

Only 25+ years in the hobby here, so take that for what it's worth.


Edited by gaswagon (Sun Jun 29 2014 11:46 PM)

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#545532 - Mon Jun 30 2014 02:43 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
Neil Gerrard Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Dec 09 2003
Loc: Canby, Oregon
Think you got that all wrong Bob, you don't have to be in the hobby long to see that if you spend your thousand dollars on three pump plates that some low life aged that it hurts the hobby. A new collector may get very discouraged by wasting that much money, that hurts the hobby. The new collector then has $1000 less to spend at a gas bash or Oldgas for that matter, that hurts the hobby. The crooked seller decides to age more items and maybe make some to flood the market, that hurts the hobby. I've been collecting for 40 plus years, aged, unmarked repops hurt the hobby, period.
Originally Posted By: Bob Richards

Unless you have some time in the Hobby and sometime is atleast a decade... You have no idea what helps or hurts this Hobby!....
I don't know how to break it to you folks... But, the Hobby is not being hurt by these items!!!!


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#545542 - Mon Jun 30 2014 06:00 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Neil Gerrard]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
You are wrong on a lot of points Bob, I bought an original Esso Elephant sign several years ago for just under $600. I was finally able to "Dump" it last year for $200. The "1 AND ONLY REASON" was because they had been repopped. Nothing today is the same as collecting was even 20 short years ago.
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#545569 - Mon Jun 30 2014 09:45 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: KZ1000]
henlovestoys Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 22 2008
Loc: Bay Area, CA
KZ,

You wrote: "Nothing today is the same as collecting was even 20 short years ago".

Really? Have you been to an auction recently?

Hen

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#545590 - Mon Jun 30 2014 10:49 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: henlovestoys]
really Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon May 13 2013
Loc: Texas
Bob...I agree with all your points. People who are worried about a new collector spending $500 or $1000 on a sign only to find out it's new.......well, if someone, new or old is spending that kind of money without doing any research ( which the internet has made ***** proof) ....can you imagine on how they got took on their car, or house or whatever? Some here seem determined to save every fool on the planet...good luck with that.

And no matter what it was at the time, I have always over paid for something(s) when I got started collecting it. but I realized it was MY mistake and certainly didn't scare me off from collecting that field, just made me smarter about it.

The internet has made information more available than ever before. There is no excuse for someone spending $500 on a $20 chipped there re-pop...period.



Edited by really (Mon Jun 30 2014 11:00 AM)

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#545602 - Mon Jun 30 2014 11:55 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
Highway66 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Oct 14 2013
Loc: SANTA MONICA, CA
The bidding started @ $15.00 not $300 or somthing crazy! It's the uninformed buyers that see a sign with some "patina" and automatically assume it's "original".
Shame on the buyers for not doing their homework. The seller didn't mention it was fake but also never mentioned it was real. I understand the dilema but that's Ebay gotta be careful.


Edited by luminor89 (Mon Jun 30 2014 11:57 AM)

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#545609 - Mon Jun 30 2014 12:27 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: really]
gr8_signfinds Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Feb 21 2013
Loc: MN
All of the bidding activity on re-pop / fantasy items is HIGHLY suspect to me.

Personally and it's just my opinion,...

I think that the major offenders work together and place bids on each other's items over a network of conspirators trying to scam people - both from here at home as well as abroad.

The insane bids you see on re-pops is this network of crooks at work bidding up their own junk in hopes that beginner collectors will just see the bids/price and come to their own false conclusion of authenticity/value (which we all know happens).

The New Collector might do a past ebay search trying to research the item and find a value. This is ineffective to the beginner or even those of us who think we are experienced in the hobby. Why? Because the reproduction items look identical, have "patina", are sometimes the same dimensions, etc.

Now I am sure some of their items come back if they offer a legit return policy, but they bank on the customer (or should I say victim) not noticing anything is wrong for the 45 days ebay&paypal will back it's buyers. Once the 45 days has past, there is nothing the person can do except learn from their mistake.

Say a New Collector sees a sign bid up to $450 with only minutes left. They get the false pretense that it's real because of the bid amount, aggressive bidding activity, and because these scammers item descriptions are very vague.

This network takes the hit on ebay fees when they have to, because obviously this scam works and they make up for it on the next scam. Not to mention, if the network of those involved is large enough, ebay would have a very hard time realizing what's going on. More than likely, they file unpaid item strikes on their counterpart or try to cancel the sale(so they don't have to pay the ebay fees). A ebay seller is allowed 3 unpaid item strikes within a certain time period before they are shut down by ebay. Now if there are 150 scammers involved, that's 450 unpaid item strikes they can receive as a group without being penalized by ebay within that time period. Also, it is very easy to set up a new ebay account when one gets shut down.

Why do I think this? Because of my years of ebay experience and because this reproduction ***** gets many more and bigger bids than good quality ORIGINAL porcelain gas/oil signs I sell at .99 no reserve. Too Fishy...

The key for new collectors is to get used to authentic items and their characteristics by reading up, going to shows, spending some time on this site, and most importantly - if there is a shade of doubt in your mind, STAY AWAY from it!!

I buy, sell, and collect signs. I am one of many GOOD ebay petro sellers out there who:
1. Sells Great and all original items (unless clearly stated otherwise)
2. Stands behind their clear and accurate item descriptions
3. Posts many good pictures from as many angles as possible
4. Offers a legit return policy that protects their buyers
5. Takes extra care in quality packaging and fast shipping
6. Genuinely loves signs and advertising - it's a passion
7. Has the ebay feedback to support all of the above
8. Is right here in the good old USA!

New collectors - be smart, protect yourselves, and buy from a trusted source or in person!

Where there is money to be made, there will always be scammers!!

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#545611 - Mon Jun 30 2014 12:29 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Highway66]
BryceG Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
lets not pretend that this is ONLY an ebay problem... its antique stores, auctions, swap meets, and even petro shows... these signs are being bought/sold as original pieces at every venue.

I have never been to a petro show where there hasnt been at least 2 vendors with some unmarked repop or argentina sign that they are trying to sell... and it's rarely disclosed as that.

my point is... its everywhere, not just ebay.
_________________________
Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

See some of my collection & Items for sale...
www.OnceAlwaysPetro.com

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#545613 - Mon Jun 30 2014 12:35 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Highway66]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
You can find fault with both the buyers and the seller. I agree the buyers are being morons. HOWEVER, if you see someone doing something shady do you try to intervene? Or just say "oh well, the person getting taken advantage of should have known better..." ?

I guess I'm just the type that tries to do the right thing. The buyer is providing a BLATANT LIE for a back story on the signs. He's also using multiple accounts to bid the price up and make it look like there's activity. It's wrong.

Let's say it's real estate rather than signs... All these crooks that faked their "investment" stories and took people for millions. Took entire life savings from elderly folks with the promise of a great return. Did they do anything wrong, or was it "just the stupid investors that fell for the scam" ?? Shame on the stupid investors for not doing their due diligence and research, right?

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#545614 - Mon Jun 30 2014 12:38 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
Quote:
The seller didn't mention it was fake but also never mentioned it was real.


Wrong. He was vague in the description, but when I emailed him to ask about the sign I got an AMAZING story about the sign(s) all coming from the same place that had been there for at least 50 years... Including pictures of the old run down building! They were just "sitting" in a truck that was going to be crushed.

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#548618 - Mon Jun 30 2014 12:47 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Highway66]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Even through most Bar Tenders/Liquor store sellers know who the Alcoholics are & who have been charged w/ DUI's, they continue to serve/sell them alcohol. Most Bar Tenders/L.S. sellers will say that IF I cut them off, they will go next door to spend their $$.

You don't make your teenagers wear Chastity Belts, knowing the Temptation is out there. It takes 2 to tangle & Both are equally to blame when IT happens.

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#550088 - Mon Jun 30 2014 12:56 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Dick Bennett]
gr8_signfinds Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Feb 21 2013
Loc: MN
Dick, have you questioned "most bars and liquor stores", or how do you know that is what "most" of them say. I find your post lacking any real info relevant to this post...

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#550091 - Mon Jun 30 2014 01:05 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gr8_signfinds]
Gasman84470 Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Jan 13 2013
Loc: Calgary AB
DB speaks/writes metaphor, you have to be bilingual to get it!


Edited by Gasman84470 (Mon Jun 30 2014 01:06 PM)

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#550106 - Mon Jun 30 2014 02:37 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Gasman84470]
really Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon May 13 2013
Loc: Texas
Gaswagon......to make the statement about using multiple accounts to bid up his on stuff, tells me you know nothing about shill bidding and how ebay has cracked down on it over the years...talk to your friend in ebay fraud and have them educate you...it's not even wildly as simple as you indicate. Anybody that shill bids is nuts these days...it would take me a long time to tell you all the ways ebay has to catch that, so have your friend at ebay fraud do it.

I'm not saying it isn't done every day, but they also kick those people off everyday.....if you shill bid, you have a very short ebay life nowadays.


Edited by really (Mon Jun 30 2014 02:42 PM)

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#550129 - Mon Jun 30 2014 04:16 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: really]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
...I can't subscribe to the idea that offering chipped-up repros and acting ignorant about their origins - or worse, spinning a ridiculous lie - is acceptable, or helpful for the hobby...and, of course, I would love it if eBay would spend some of their largesse to insure offerings listed as antique/collectible are authentic, and not phony - but like DB said, it ain't gonna happen, because that would negatively affect their bottom line...the best we can do is report stuff when we see it, and hope someone who's looking to spend $$$ has enough sense to sit on the sidelines and learn, before making a sizeable investment...

...now, regarding shill bidders: seems to me that most have very low feedback ratings...case in point: this Gulf handy oiler that has no business going for this much:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161347743517

...might just be a case of 'you can't fix stupid' or 'more money than brains' - or it could be all those bids by the knuckleheads with the 2 and 6 feedback ratings...I'll bet the next one doesn't bring 1/3 of what this one brings...
_________________________
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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#550138 - Mon Jun 30 2014 05:20 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gulfiend!]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
Quote:
Gaswagon......to make the statement about using multiple accounts to bid up his on stuff, tells me you know nothing about shill bidding and how eBay has cracked down on it over the years...


Great assumption. You're dead wrong.

Please, educate me. Here are the facts I can see:

1- seller has a fake sign that has bid up to a high amount and has had lots of bids.
2- seller has two other current auctions that have the same circumstances (fake signs, multiple bids, high price)
3- the "bidders" on all three signs are in large part the same ebay usernames outbidding each other.
4- those usernames have also purchased many past auctions from this seller and left positive feedback for the seller. Yes, they have purchased NUMEROUS fake signs for large amounts, then left positive feedback about how happy they are...
5- Quite a bit of the sellers feedback is from these same ebayers.
6- Strange coincidence: those other ebayers sell the same fake signs and this seller has been a frequent buyer from them also. Hmm. Weird! What a coincidence! This guy BUYS fake signs for high amounts from other sellers? I'm shocked!

Look, I'm not out trying to save all the uneducated buyers. I'm not trying to make eBay change their world. I'm not trying to "fix" the hobby. I SEE SOMEONE DOING SOMETHING UNDERHANDED (that MAY cost an innocent person $$) and I have a means to possibly stop it, so I'm going to try. I'm all ears if you can find fault in that.

I'm a little surprised about all the energy some folks have spent trying to defend this guy when it's been laid out plain and simple what he is doing. I typically don't get involved in this stuff on oldgas, but I saw this post and looked into it and it rubbed me the wrong way. In fact, I rarely post anything on this site due to all the drama that typically unfolds here. I've been a lurker for years, but I avoid posting due to all the keyboard cowboys on this site! lol...

SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME: what harm is being done by reporting this guy? Good heavens...

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#550143 - Mon Jun 30 2014 05:29 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
Funny timing on this... I just got a message from my friend at eBay. He said they found shill bidding across multiple accounts. He says the shill accounts were actioned but they are digging deeper into the main account. He said they are probably going to ding the main acct for shill, and if anything else happens his acct will be taken down permanently.

.....no way was he shill bidding, right? LOL...

MULTIPLE ACCTS TAKEN DOWN! That may save some unsuspecting un-educated new collector a few hundred bucks on a fake sign. I don't feel bad about doing that AT ALL. I think I will go back to being a lurker now...

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#550149 - Mon Jun 30 2014 05:55 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
MetroPetro Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Mar 25 2005
Loc: North Jersey
Gaswagon, keep on posting and fighting the good fight.

Of course the fraudsters and their fake goods hurt the hobby.
_________________________
Looking for photos, etc from 60s era Shell-A-Rama gas station and Pal's Diner, Rt. 17 Mahwah, NJ
& US or state highway signs, shields, route markers

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#550153 - Mon Jun 30 2014 06:06 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: MetroPetro]
really Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon May 13 2013
Loc: Texas
Just like I said...if you shill on ebay you have a short life........your post is full of assumptions...If you don't think people actually pay "stupid" money everyday on ebay, then you're wrong. I'm certainly not defending this guy, I just telling you that shill bidding is not, "gee let me set up some additional accounts and bid on my stuff". ..that would last 1 hour. ...if he's done a much more complicated version of shill bidding, he will go down, like maybe he is now.....you can't get away with it for any length of time in 2014.


Edited by really (Mon Jun 30 2014 06:18 PM)

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#550166 - Mon Jun 30 2014 07:40 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
rbonitz Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Jan 10 2013
Loc: Chester County, PA
Originally Posted By: gaswagon
Funny timing on this... I just got a message from my friend at eBay. He said they found shill bidding across multiple accounts. He says the shill accounts were actioned but they are digging deeper into the main account. He said they are probably going to ding the main acct for shill, and if anything else happens his acct will be taken down permanently.

.....no way was he shill bidding, right? LOL...

MULTIPLE ACCTS TAKEN DOWN! That may save some unsuspecting un-educated new collector a few hundred bucks on a fake sign. I don't feel bad about doing that AT ALL. I think I will go back to being a lurker now...
Originally Posted By: gaswagon
Funny timing on this... I just got a message from my friend at eBay. He said they found shill bidding across multiple accounts. He says the shill accounts were actioned but they are digging deeper into the main account. He said they are probably going to ding the main acct for shill, and if anything else happens his acct will be taken down permanently.

.....no way was he shill bidding, right? LOL...

MULTIPLE ACCTS TAKEN DOWN! That may save some unsuspecting un-educated new collector a few hundred bucks on a fake sign. I don't feel bad about doing that AT ALL. I think I will go back to being a lurker now...
Originally Posted By: gaswagon
Funny timing on this... I just got a message from my friend at eBay. He said they found shill bidding across multiple accounts. He says the shill accounts were actioned but they are digging deeper into the main account. He said they are probably going to ding the main acct for shill, and if anything else happens his acct will be taken down permanently.

.....no way was he shill bidding, right? LOL...

MULTIPLE ACCTS TAKEN DOWN! That may save some unsuspecting un-educated new collector a few hundred bucks on a fake sign. I don't feel bad about doing that AT ALL. I think I will go back to being a lurker now...
Originally Posted By: gaswagon
Funny timing on this... I just got a message from my friend at eBay. He said they found shill bidding across multiple accounts. He says the shill accounts were actioned but they are digging deeper into the main account. He said they are probably going to ding the main acct for shill, and if anything else happens his acct will be taken down permanently.

.....no way was he shill bidding, right? LOL...

MULTIPLE ACCTS TAKEN DOWN! That may save some unsuspecting un-educated new collector a few hundred bucks on a fake sign. I don't feel bad about doing that AT ALL. I think I will go back to being a lurker now...


Thanks GW for fighting the good fight on this one!

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#550200 - Mon Jun 30 2014 10:35 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: rbonitz]
ddkinsey Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Oct 03 2007
Loc: ca
I'm very pleased to hear there was some action taken on this and other sellers involved in this scam. I'm curious what will happen on the three signs that closed yesterday to the tune of over $1100 will ebay do anything about that? They are still up in sold listings showing the high price.
Thanks for taking the time to deal with this GW
Diane

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#550428 - Wed Jul 02 2014 04:02 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: ddkinsey]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
I also appreciate your efforts GW.
_________________________
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#550453 - Wed Jul 02 2014 10:26 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Bob Richards]
tomzcollectiblez Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Feb 26 2006
Loc: La Porte, In
This person has been ripping off people for over a month now...
I think he is a member from Redding California...
Here is a huge firestone sign He is selling with HIM pictured smile
His completed listings show over $2,000 in sales of repo's being schill bidded and sold as originals by placing them in the antiques category!
He is deliberately selling these in the primitive section to decieve NEWER collectors!!!! The same few bidders seem to bid it up BUT NEVER WIN! LOL
Here is HIS picture and his auction of a HUGE neon!!!! Notice how he FOUND the correct category for the firestone YET intentionally sells repo's in Antiques category to RIP PEOPLE OFF!!
Crook on ebay!

Reproductions are supposed to be sold in the reproduction section!!!!! PERIOD!
If your using the original sign categories used for originals THEN YOU ARE BEING DECEPTIVE!

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#550458 - Wed Jul 02 2014 11:11 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: tomzcollectiblez]
coheley5 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Jun 11 2009
Loc: Georgia
Where do you get that huge new sign?
_________________________
Remember you are only as good as your help
If you don't make any noise no one will hear you!

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#550468 - Wed Jul 02 2014 11:54 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: coheley5]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
Interesting... if he's a member on here I'd love to hear his side of the story.

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#550488 - Wed Jul 02 2014 02:07 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: gaswagon]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
WE have already Hung him, dead men tell no lies.

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#550519 - Wed Jul 02 2014 05:01 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Dick Bennett]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
It's important to do our part in trying to stop these "dishonest sellers". However, I don't think we will ever be able to rid the hobby of them.

You'll never change these guys or stop them from conducting business.

We have a better chance of understanding women...


Attachments
Understanding Women.jpg


_________________________
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#550554 - Wed Jul 02 2014 08:29 PM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: Dave's Garage]
ddkinsey Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Oct 03 2007
Loc: ca
I think it might be a good idea to follow this seller on ebay and get alerts if he lists again. Like to see this crook shut down.
Interesting people's court today. Bogus Les Paul guitar sold as a real Les Paul guitar out of a pawn shop. Seller thought it was real, according to his testimony anyway. Judge made him refund purchase price and said if you sell it again you will be in big trouble. She said if you sell a car it should be a car. So if you say it's a pump sign it should be a pump sign. Tricky wording will get nowhere in court.
Lol

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#550610 - Thu Jul 03 2014 12:24 AM Re: robbery with a husky sign [Re: ddkinsey]
gaswagon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 30 2013
Loc: UT
I follow him on eBay. Currently he has nothing for sale.

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