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The "Value Forum" #553498
Tue Jul 15 2014 11:45 AM
Tue Jul 15 2014 11:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,272
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline OP
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Bob Richards  Offline OP
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Longview, WA
I replied to a Value question on the "Peggy" that is being asked about...

I noticed figures being put forth, that are separated by a fairly wide expanse of dollars.. And have noticed this pattern for a couple of years now... And I have a suggestion and honestly, would like the Membership to discuss the direction of the "Value Forum"...

Here is pretty much what I wrote in my reply: with a couple of changes that relate to me posting this "New Topic" here, in the General Discussion Forum, not the Value Forum.. (hope that makes sense, but if it doesn't?..... most of you are now use to my ramblings)

"I am quite confused at times; And I must admit, this happens a lot since I reached a certain age and started "Over the Hill"...

But, being confused, really happens a lot here on Oldgas... Especially by the "numbers" being bantered in the "Value Forum"....

The figures that are being offered; Are they Values (what the item is actually worth) or are they potential resale figures?

This Forum started out as a "Value" Forum... What an item was actually worth... Now, atleast to me; This forum is becoming a "Resale Forum" where some Members make guesses as to what an item may bring at Resale...

There lies the problem, some of the Members (mostly those who are experienced and are actual Collectors) are attempting to give the asking Party, actual Values...

Whereas, other Members (mostly not experienced and those at are not really Collectors) are producing numbers that relate to what one may get if they Resale the item...

These conclusions of course are mine and mine alone... I do believe though; That more and more Members are relating the same concerns to this Forum. This is based on conversations I have with other Members and reading posts... Because of these concerns and how I relate to the figures I now see given on this forum; Is one of the reasons I do not "throw out" numbers... Nor do I offer to express an opinion as to the value of an item(s)...

If I may make a suggestion? Why not place a caveat with your numbers... Explaining if you are giving an actual value or if you are giving a resale figure...."


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Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: Bob Richards] #553506
Tue Jul 15 2014 12:15 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 12:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 985
SANTA MONICA, CA
Highway66 Offline
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Highway66  Offline
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SANTA MONICA, CA
So basically a "flipper forum" to test the water's on the price of their item? Isn't that called Ebay?

Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: Highway66] #553511
Tue Jul 15 2014 12:48 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 12:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,272
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline OP
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Bob Richards  Offline OP
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Longview, WA
Anthony, NO... Honestly I have to ask, did you actually read what I wrote?

I would like the "Value Forum" to go back to what it started as... A place where one would receive an actual value... Based on not 1 Ebay auction result, but based on the research actual Collectors have done... But, that "ship has passed in the night" and there is no going back... But, what we can do, is try an ensure that the numbers given are place in the correct context....

A good portion of those who have been in the Hobby, for more than a decade or two; have thousands of results from Ebay, Gas Show auctions, farm auctions and local auctions.. Sales among Hobbyists.... etc....

This is where they were/are coming up with their "values"... Now, too many Members are giving "values" from 1 auction... That is not a value, that is a "resale figure"....

I suggest that if one is giving a figure based on the results of numerous auctions... They place that caveat along with their numbers... If they are giving a figure based on one or a handful of Ebay Auction results, they give that caveat so the Member who is asking for a "value" understands what the opinion is based on...

Because when it comes down to it, it is always an opinion... But, some opinions are based on long time research; whereas others are based on 1 time, results....


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Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: Bob Richards] #553520
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:11 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:11 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,357
NY
57tbirdkid Offline
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57tbirdkid  Offline
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NY
The problem is value is just an "opinion". Just because it sold for XYZ on ebay or sold at auction for a certain price does not mean its worth that amount. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it on the day you go to sell it.


The most valuable commodity I know of is information-Wall Street
Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: 57tbirdkid] #553521
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:23 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 161
So. Calif.
Rsljr1 Offline
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Rsljr1  Offline
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So. Calif.
That's so true.

Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: 57tbirdkid] #553522
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:28 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,904
smyrna, de USA
THERMOMAN Offline
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THERMOMAN  Offline
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smyrna, de USA
I recently picked up a case of 10 NOS Goodyear signs. All exactly the same condition. I sent them to auction and sold a few locally. This is what they brought.
225
165
85
65
325
175
175
175
225
300

How many people reading this think the Goodyear sign is worth 300 and how many people think it's worth 65. The value forum is moronic.

There are a few people out there that think the India made signs are worth 5000.

If you can't feel out the value of your sign on your own or consult with friend on your own. You need to get out of the house more often.

Last edited by thermoman; Tue Jul 15 2014 01:29 PM.

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Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: 57tbirdkid] #553524
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:39 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,272
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline OP
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Bob Richards  Offline OP
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Longview, WA
What you just described is not the value of an item...

What you described is a resale figure... And that usually varies from sell to sell....

And there is a giant difference between the two concepts....


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Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: THERMOMAN] #553525
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:39 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,250
cape girardeau. mo
s932 Offline
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cape girardeau. mo
Bob I agree with what you are saying. I think some newer members just want to post and really don't know what they are talking about when they give a value. or they look at Scott or Jacks book and think that is what its worth. I think the only way to give a fair value is if you have traveled to shows go to auctions and see this stuff first hand. setting behind a computer does not make you an expert.


Originals only for me. Always looking for Simpson oil, Super A, and MFA oil cans and globes.
Shawn Morris
Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: THERMOMAN] #553526
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:39 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,188
NORTHWEST,AR,USA
M
MARK SMITH Offline
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MARK SMITH  Offline
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NORTHWEST,AR,USA
I would say the GY signs are worth $191.50 ea.based on the info provided.
Originally Posted By: thermoman
I recently picked up a case of 10 NOS Goodyear signs. All exactly the same condition. I sent them to auction and sold a few locally. This is what they brought.
225
165
85
65
325
175
175
175
225
300

How many people reading this think the Goodyear sign is worth 300 and how many people think it's worth 65. The value forum is moronic.

There are a few people out there that think the India made signs are worth 5000.

If you can't feel out the value of your sign on your own or consult with friend on your own. You need to get out of the house more often.

Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: MARK SMITH] #553528
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:52 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,316
Peoria, IL
BryceG Offline
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BryceG  Offline
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Peoria, IL
its all opinion... and everyone is going to base their opinion on their own experiences.

for some, that may be 40-years in the hobby. for others, 2-years.

but to get those opinions from each end of that spectrum will give you the best idea... and that is what the value forum is trying to achieve.

the market is made up of new-comers and veterans of the hobby, if you were to only listen to one end of that... you'll only know what the value is to a small portion of the market.


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Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: MARK SMITH] #553530
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:58 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 01:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,272
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline OP
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Bob Richards  Offline OP
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Posts: 6,272
Longview, WA
Mark what you calculated was the base line average price for the signs...

IMO, that is not, the value...

The value of such a sign would be to gather results from other auctions, private sales, etc... And then average out all the signs...

A lot of you know, that I worked in my Parent's Store and later before and after the Service worked for a couple fairly large "Brick Front" Auction Houses... When I started out, that is how we determined value... Based on numerous results of sold items in the same or as close to possible to the same condition.... This included the sales... A private sell between 2 Hobbyists is much different than a Farm Auction or a Barrett-Jackson Auction or Ebay....

I did some Insurance Evaluations up until a handful of years ago...

Even out in the "Marketplace", some Estimators for smaller Insurance Companies and smaller Auction Houses... Started using Ebay as their benchmark... Thankfully, the Auction Houses didn't last long and the small Insurance Companies started using "tried and true" Professional Estimator's instead of "In House" Personnel who had no idea....


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Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: Bob Richards] #553534
Tue Jul 15 2014 02:03 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 02:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 466
Belgium, Liege
Nucky Offline
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Nucky  Offline
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Belgium, Liege
I think the best thing for collectors is buying something you love to keep for a long time and enjoy it without seeing the money behind the item, that's what I learn after a few years of collecting, if you came accross something that you feel a bargain for you or if you have a crush on it, just jump on it buy it if it's a reasonable price and enjoy the signs on your wall

I know I have very rare signs in my collection but knowing how much they are worth didn't make me happier, I'm just happy to have the item as those are a trace of the history that I sadly didn't know

Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: MARK SMITH] #553535
Tue Jul 15 2014 02:03 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 02:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,998
Central Ohio
Wes Maxwell Offline
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Wes Maxwell  Offline
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Central Ohio
It is easy to throw out a number what a person thinks something is worth. I could say I think a sign is worth $1000 but if it was offered to me at that price, I may or may not buy it. If I wanted it for my collection, I might do the $1000. If it was for resale, I probably wouldn't. An estimate backed up with an offer may give a better idea? If someone would post in the value section, what's this sign worth and he gets an offer of $600, he would know on that day to that person, his sign is worth at least $600. I remember the thread on old Gas a while back about the guy with the box of NOS Johnson flange signs. It was easy to post I think those would bring $5K or $10K at an auction, but how many people could actually back up their estimate with an offer? No mater what something is "worth", if you cant sell it for that price, you could assume your estimate is to high?


US Air Force Retired, 1981-2007
Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: Wes Maxwell] #553536
Tue Jul 15 2014 02:07 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 02:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,272
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline OP
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Bob Richards  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,272
Longview, WA
I will now "shut up"! LOL

I am looking forward to seeing what direction this discussion travels!

I am enjoying the discussion and I hope all will give their honest input...


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Re: The "Value Forum" [Re: Bob Richards] #553541
Tue Jul 15 2014 02:25 PM
Tue Jul 15 2014 02:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,188
NORTHWEST,AR,USA
M
MARK SMITH Offline
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MARK SMITH  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,188
NORTHWEST,AR,USA
Bob,I am pretty sure Thermoman said he sent some to auction and sold some locally.Sent to auction could mean many auctions in many different areas.I don't know. IMO that group of signs had an average value of $191.50.That seems like a fair market value.IMO value and avg. price on 10 sales on an exact item are related somehow.We all know value changes for many diff.reasons.Again it's just my opinion for the very little it's worth.Mark

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