Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion The "Value Forum"

OK, Bob, you said: "I hope all will give their honest input".

IMO, "value" of an item is set what market bears (supply & demand rule).

Here is a good example when I tried get an idea for friend's 5-Quart Gilmore Can on OG:

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=319812&nt=2&page=1

Myself, never go to that forum!

Hen

As the Value forum Moderator, maybe I am a little thin skinned, but to call it "Moronic" is a bit harsh as many people seem to use it. Just becuase you don't like it doesn't make it moronic. I know I have looked at many items and felt I learned from the various contributor's comments, even for items that I am not interested in. As to your comment if people can't figure it out ontheir own or consult a friend comment...I thought that's what we were here on Oldgas....just a bunch of people hanging around and sometimes helping each other. I have found some items in various locations I have purchased based on what I learned here. And heaven forbid, I sold some of them and made a profit. The shame...I have even made them available to folks here on Oldgas....

And your comment regarding people thinking some signs from India are worth $5000. I think you most of the members here an apology. But, I have seen some signs from India that would have fooled me and I am grateful for the knowledge of the Value forum when these fakes are pointed out. (As well as the other forums)

Bob: I must be running low on coffee..I am not quite getting your concept of "value vs. resale." To me those numbers would generally be similar if not the same. I can think of exceptions, I know what a Texaco Truck door sign (Consignee, dealer, etc) is generally worth X amount, but I would pay more for one with H.J. Murphy on it as he was the local Texaco dealer in my town. But, to another Texaco collector they would probably pay less than I would if they valued it as just a Texaco truck door sign. Help me understand what I am missing.

Ebay prices alone don't make a value, but if you see a bunch of Texaco pump plates sell for $100 to $150..then based on the condition that would probably be a fair range....I like your idea of encouraging people to qualify why they fel that way on a price..i.e. based on what I saw in an sauction or ebay I think it is worth X amount. There are few absolute values in any of this stuff we buy and sell...mostly opinions.

i feel the best way to determine value is only based on auctions. What have people spent on that particular item and its condition? Historical data is all you can really use to produce the facts rather than using ones opinion (ebay completed listings / worth point)

Alex... To me a value, is a replacement figure...

As in a Member wanting to put a figure on their items for Insurance purposes...

Grabbing some figures from a few ebay auctions, does not fly! (based on my prior Insurance work)

When I give a value on an item; "My opinion is not based on "a bunch of items"... But, is actually based on a minimum amount of results, that I feel comfortable with that will give a true value... This minimum is not set in stone, as it changes depending on the item...

Example: Texaco pump plates are numerous and plentiful and as such, I most likely would average out maybe 100 auctions and private sells (I have contacted a number of Members, you included if I remember correctly? asking if the Member minds me asking for the sell price of an item, as the item was sold between 2 Parties on Oldgas... I record the selling price and use the results, when given, as part of my research...) To come up with a figure I believe is a true value...

Now on a Globe, that is not common... I used to check with Matthews Auction Company... I would check on the 'Net, to see past Auctions that were covered... I have contacted Scott, to ask him opinion... And all too often, I would not be able to give a figure that I was comfortable enough to state as a "true value"...

I am "old school" whereas it comes to this Hobby... I was lucky enough to learn at the knee(s) of some of the Founders.. So I tend to try to do things as they did... As such, I am not comfortable with the direction that the "Value Forum" is heading... I don't believe that values are given in most instances, now...

I am fairly old and I admit; that I am way too naive, I am afraid!...

As I would like to believe that most Collectors are interested in knowing what their items are actually worth... Whether they paid too much, paid too little or if they were correct in their idea of what their item is worth...

I don't want to believe that so many are only wondering; What can I get for this item, when I flip it tomorrow....

As I said; I most likely am, very naive....

All I can say is I Found the value section to be a Great Help to me thru what people posted and those who sent PM's. That maybe because some on the site know who and how long I have been around.

To Those Who Helped Me I Want to Say a Big Thank You!!!

On the other side "I just bought this, what is it worth? Not looking to sell." Evidently to you, it was worth what you paid.
SO, in Reality you bought something that you had NO Idea of it's value.

Seldom have I asked for a value on an item. A member will post his estimate & them PM an offer of 2-3X what he posted [w/o me even mentioning it might be For Sale!].

At best, any value provided is opinion based on one of two things:
-Personal experience or based on ones research. There is going to be a wide spread in the two.

-Human nature comes into play. Be it wanting the best deal (buyer) or wanting the most money (seller). Here, lies the problem is the value being expressed what you would pay to buy it for yourself or is it what you would resell it for?

Personally, I think an accurate value is what we call "replacement value". What is it worth in an open market with competition. i.e. at auction with other interested parties or in a retail environment.

How low one can grind someone, or how much advantage an experienced buyer can take of an inexperienced seller can not be the bench marks to use when determining value of an item in a open market.

I think some problems are inherent in the value forum by it's very nature and a level of dysfunction will always be present. Simply because, it is a fictional setting as value can only be determined by a buyer and seller in a real situation sale. Anything short of that is just an opinion. Because of the varying opinions some level of disappointment will always be present.

What I'm trying to say is that, you can't fix the value forum because it can never be a perfect forum. You just have to accept it...easier said then done because I'm one of the vocal guys there who on some days just can't ignore some of the silly values posted.

Couldnt have said it better Dave. You hit the nail on the head with a truly common sense answer.

Dave I do agree. I have been collecting for a long time. If I had a fire destroy my collection I would want what it would actually cost me to replace each of those items. Replacement value, which might be higher than I would normally pay because some of the items do not come up for sale that often. Now as a collector I set a value on an item which I'm willing to pay. That said I'm showing how long I've been in the hobby because I have not been buying much any more. I have not increased what I believe an item is worth to keep up with todays hobby. So what is the correct value? Replacement value or what people in todays hobby are willing to pay. I don't have the answer.

As the value form goes, I like it because I don't keep up with the changes like I should, and this gives me some idea of the range of an item and I educate myself every day. Richard

Thats the reason I do not post in the value forum, one because I am not educated enough, and two because I am a collector and it quite possibly could be a different value than what a buyer and seller would get.

The only way you can honestly give a "value" is by qualifying the figure you quote. Prices are volatile and capricious and sales take place in a variety of atmospheres with a variety of subjective forces coming into play. Kind of what Dave said.

We have seen this played out a lot recently in items offered for sale here-prices asked in the beginning leaking down as much as 30-40 percent with regularity over a period of days.

Because I wrote the Gas Pump books and my email address is in the book and all over my website, I get a value request almost every day.

If the person doing the asking is polite and details his request I try and respond.

Sometime I feel I should just tell them to go to Old Gas, but that would just putting it off.

The ones, that just give me the model number and ask the worth, I usually reply: Put it on Ebay for $9.99 the world will tell you what it is worth."

Even my book is not the best guide, I think more of it as being a identification guide, not a value guide (things will probably change for the 3rd edition). Plus, how can anyone put a value on anything you can not touch with your hands?

Jack Sim

Or asking Value for a dirty Sign. "It's covered w/ roofing Tar, but I think it will clean up easily/nicely"!

Happy Birthday Jack.

Gene
San Antonio

p.s. I have a question regarding a missing Eco Islander ID tags for my Islander I will email you soon.

Bob- its probably not worth getting your panties all bunched up.To tell you the truth, I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying there should only be one number allowed to be given? Collectable values vary. Thats why some people go deep sea fishing and reduce the price of their item 10 dollars at a time until a certain person buys their item and they make the maximun amount possible on each item.. Others put a low price on their item and sell in volume. If I'm not mistaken you say there is a range in prices with this quote right here.
"A lot of you know, that I worked in my Parent's Store and later before and after the Service worked for a couple fairly large "Brick Front" Auction Houses... When I started out, that is how we determined value... Based on numerous results of sold items in the same or as close to possible to the same condition.... This included the sales... A private sell between 2 Hobbyists is much different than a Farm Auction or a Barrett-Jackson Auction or eBay...." Bob, If it was my "estimate" of the value for the beat up horse that got you upset I apologize. I gave a value that, I must admit had a fairly large space between high and low values. Its beat up pretty bad- worse than most.- kinda hard to nail it down. I just didnt think it would bring what another guy said he thought it might bring so I put my two cents in. (Yes- "Precious Moments", "Roseville" pottery and other similar items have a tighter range of value. IMO) Really, that doesnt make either one of "wrong" we just have a different opinion of what they are worth. But that being said, I do follow the value of the cookie cutters as I own one, like them and I pay attention to each one that I see for sale. Be it at shows ,ebay or for sale privately and have followed them for a number of years.