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As a new oldgas.com member but long-time clock collector, I have come to realize over time the difficulty in determining authenticity and practical value of "vintage" advertising clocks.

With the help of collector friends, I have learned a few practical ways to both minimize your chances of unknowingly buying a repro, as well as improve your likelihood to enjoy your purchase and protect your investment over the long term.

So...two questions for the forum.
1) Is this the right place to share that information?
2) If so, does anyone care? :-)

Last edited by am4tide; Thu Jul 24 2014 05:16 PM.

Seeking soda double bubble clocks...
Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
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i would like to know more on old clocks. too many fakes out there so i dont buy any. thanks.

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We're all about learning. Welcome to OG.


Collecting the Mississippi companies:
Billups, Southland, Rose Oil,Crystal Oil, Barq's
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Originally Posted By: Dave Richey
We're all about learning. Welcome to OG.


x2, I'm in.

Just keep in mind this is the petroliana forum so clocks have to be gas and oil. If it's pop clocks then they go in the Non petro forum.


Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
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Yep, I care. Thanks.


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am4tide Offline OP
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OK - here goes then...I'll add a bit of information as time allows and we'll see where things go from there.

There have been numerous clock makers in the advertising genre over the years. My collecting has focused in primarily on 7 of them - Tel-a-Sign, Swihart, Pam, Telechron, American Time, Electric Time, and AP (Advertising Products of Cincinnati) - because my personal focus is backlit advertising clocks. My AP discussion does not involve their double bubble clocks - as I do not know much about them - but rather their standard Pam-type round clocks.

Many people are unaware that the faces for these clocks were made differently and exhibit different characteristics. For example:
1) AP clock faces are generally plastic, not glass. As a result, I generally tend to avoid these clocks (personal preference for glass faces only).
2) Pam, Swihart, and Tel-a-Sign use the reverse painting process on their glass faces, which results over years of use and higher-than-appropriate bulb wattage in paint flaking, often termed "crazing".
3) Telechron, Electric Time, and American Time instead generally used a baked-in paint process on their glass faces. The neat thing about their faces is that if one gets dirty, you can remove it from the clock, wash it in the sink, and more often than not it looks like new. There are a few Telechron varieties that do not use the baked-in process, but in my experience, the vast majority do. While I have not personally seen one of the non-baked varieties, my collector friends who have tell me that you can see the difference.

This information can take you one of several directions, depending on your personal goals as a collector. My personal preference is, all other things being equal, to look for the "washable" face makers, as I can expect my faces to look good for many years to come. Some degree of "patina" is fine. But since most of my clocks run and light on the walls of my home office where I spend some degree of most days, I want my clocks to look as good as possible for as long as possible.

I hope this information helps someone...suggestion for next topic could be face-to-canister consistency by clockmaker?

Last edited by am4tide; Fri Jul 25 2014 06:06 AM.

Seeking soda double bubble clocks...
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Speaking of Pam gas/oil clocks, boy is there some questionable stuff being listed on eBay today...

Some people have no shame...


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You got that right!good info.thanks


Looking for gas,oil related clocks,especially neon and spinners .clock repair available. Mick
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Originally Posted By: am4tide
Speaking of Pam gas/oil clocks, boy is there some questionable stuff being listed on eBay today...

Some people have no shame...


All the reproduction parts available are kind of a double edged sword.

Very nice to be able to buy them when restoring a clock. However, they also enable some of the dishonest people that want to fake items and then sell them as originals.

The actions of these sellers too some extent,is hurting the value of some of the clocks. Or, at the very least causing great concern for collectors buying online without the benefit of being able to personally examine the clock.


Dave GILL,
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Agreed - truth be told, there are likely very few 100% original advertising clocks in the collecting world. My perspective is that I am much less concerned about a replacement movement that is consistent with original parts than I am reproduction faces/canisters and face/canister mismatches - e.g., Telechron face in a Pam canister - being sold as "vintage". I would consider the former vintage while the latter is definitely not.


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One of my my original clocks is a square Pam Clock. It's a Purolator Clock.

Inside the can it is ink stamped Jul 1960.

My second clock is an original Canadian Neon Ray Clock. It's a Goodyear Clock.

It is identical in every way as my Pam Clock.

Both are painted on the back of the glass.


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Info on Canadian Neon Ray Clocks from the Canadian Clock Museum:

Based on our research to date, mainly through reading the old business directories at the National Library in Ottawa, this business was in operation from ca. 1942 to the mid 1960s at 371 Dowd Street in Montreal. The first President was Walter Pam. There probably is a connection between Mr. Pam and the Pam Clock Company located in Brooklyn and New Rochelle, New York during the same period of time. The latter company started shortly after Mr. Pam left Montreal in the late 1940s, and made the same styles of back-lit advertising clocks!


The main product was "Bulb Illuminated" advertising clocks. The common types found today have round (15" diameter) or square (15" by 15") frames set in pressed-aluminum cases with flat glass faces and shallow-domed glass covers. The advertising design was painted on the glass face. Most faces have the following company name across the bottom under the 6: "CANADIAN NEON-RAY CLOCK CO., LTD., MONTREAL, QUE., CANADA".


All kinds of companies purchased these clocks to advertise their products. Examples include soft drinks, beer, service station items such as motor oil and spark plugs, ice cream, paints, meats, and mattresses. French-language as well as English advertising clocks are common.


The clocks used a simple electric motor to turn the hour, minute and second hands, and two light bulbs to illuminate the advertising dial from behind. The instructions on the label usually found on the back of the case recommend 15 watt light bulbs. Unfortunately, clocks are often found today with higher wattage bulbs, and the resultant damage to the painted design caused by the excessive heat.


This company also produced true neon clocks in the early years. Some were about 12" in diameter, but much larger versions are known. The Museum has two examples, both with original labels. One is the smallest version with a circular orange neon-gas tube around the 7" dial and a scalloped greenish white tube (argon gas?) outside the dial. The second has a 22" diameter face and the company name on the dial above the 6. A circular, white-painted tube (filled with argon gas?) illuminates the face, and a larger, clear glass tube filled with neon gas provides an orange glow when the clock is operating.
A new addition to the museum collection of true neon clocks in 2008 is a small version with FOUR colour sections (blue, yellow, green, and white) in the round central tube, pink in the outer scalloped tube, and a Moire effect created by the rotating disc that holds the seconds hand. This deluxe clock was located in a Halifax shop for more than forty years until 2007.

Last edited by strnge; Sun Oct 26 2014 11:26 AM.

Mike

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