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#57719 Wed Jun 20 2007 05:24 AM
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I don't post often but watch daily. you all have valid points. I think what some of us thats been in the hobby for a while are seeing is the evolution of the hobby. there are many more ways to buy this stuff then there was say 20 yrs. ago , aumann-matthews, plus all the other 100's of auctions year round. I liken e-bay to wal-mart as to what happens to small town businesses when they come in. so, yes I shop wal-mart and I use e-bay but still attend some shows and auctions. like I mentioned earlier, I think it's the evolution of the hobby and I don't think we're going back. just my opinion.

Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#57720 Wed Jun 20 2007 06:34 AM
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RE: "Another thing we have to consider are the newer members to the site. We recently had the guess for the 6000 member. Well, since that time we have added 765 new members. I wonder what they are thinking, reading this?"

My retort would be, what would they be thinking seeing $200 on a Fire Chief sign at one of the shows that nobody on this board would give more than $100 on even with a few cold ones in them. I'm 26, I've been collecting since I was 12. Back in my teens I could go to a show and come home with lots of good items with the money I made from a part time job, or mowing lawns, etc. You get the picture. Granted, it was a different time for the hobby, but all things are relative. Now, even with a good job and bringing a lot more money to the shows, I can maybe pickup one or two items that I feel I didn't get hosed on. I expect things to go up in value, but I don't expect to have to pay 50 to 75% more to buy it at a show than from a fellow collector, ebay, etc. There seems to be a disconnect between many of the collector-dealers and the ones who are primarily dealers. A lot of dealers started pulling up stakes at 10am on Friday. This was the first "official" day of the show! If that's not bad for the hobby and newcomers, I don't know what is.

I think everyone here has made excellent points, I don't think there's really an easy solution to it, it may as one person said, just be the evolution of the hobby. I'll still enjoy going to the shows, seeing old friends and meeting new ones, and maybe picking up some goodies. The shows still do provide a great service and the organizers are owed a big debt of gratitude for all the work that goes into putting one of those things together.

#57721 Wed Jun 20 2007 07:15 AM
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First one in, last one out. INTERNET is a killer. Why travel to a show or an auction if you can buy on line. It's hard to follow but my guess would be that a minimum of 33% of sales at both Columbus auctions were over the internet or phone. I also think the Wednesday auction hurt the show. People showed up Wed. and then had to stand around Thursday morning not allowed to open their space until 2:00. Do you really think that happened. First I'd like to see NO auction on Wed. Make it Thursday afternoon and let the show start on Friday like it should, first thing in the morning. Yes there were a couple of guys asking prices that I would guess caused them little or no sales, but overall prices were very fair in my opinion. Keep this show going but start it on Friday with NO EARLY SETUP FOR EXTRA MONEY. See you all at Iowa and I'm bringing my wife for her first show so be polite.

#57722 Wed Jun 20 2007 10:44 AM
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Pablo: I was responding to the intial post on this thread, which said;

"From what I was told the turnout of buyers and sellers was off and many people are blaming whoever it was who posted a couple of weeks ago basically telling people not to attend. SHAME ON YOU."

#57723 Wed Jun 20 2007 01:59 PM
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From Lastgas: "I can tell you as a buyer that I like the auction/show combination. I doubt seriously that any buyers stayed away from Columbus because there was an opportunity to buy so much stuff."

--------------------------------------------

Bob...that was far from my point, but I will give you a gold star for the semi-sarcastic zinger anyway. My dad (also my pastor) who counsels many couples every week always says that the reason it is so hard to get people to see eye-to-eye is because each person's perception is THEIR REALITY. That said, I PERCEIVE shows and auctions that are held as stand-alone events are superior to combination show/auctions. One need not look any further than the show at Columbia.

(Timeout...if any show promotor is reading this, please understand that we all commend the heck out of you and appreciate your efforts greatly, just know that we enjoy a little debate and banter and are in no way ungrateful for your efforts)

Back to Columbia. It is a singularly focused event held in a short timeframe. Vendor set-up & $25 early-bird @ noon Friday. Vendors stage up in pre-arranged rows and the buyers are standing in the building like pitbulls waiting for a steak. What comes out of those trucks & trailers is ALL the merchandise you are going to get, so you better get your cash out. This year, the weather was as bad as it could possibly be, yet it was still a great show.

Anyway, no matter how tough the pill is to swallow, the bottom line is the same as putting on a good auction. There are two main ingredients for success: MERCHANDISE & MAILING LIST. You gotta have great stuff & you have to let the right people know that it's for sale. Location, auctioneer, date, etc play a small part but at the end of the day, it's all about what's for sale & who's coming to buy it. Obviously, shows like CTO & IG are world-renowned, so what does that leave?? MERCHANDISE!! When people started doing show reports with pics, if I saw a whole bunch of fresh merchandise that showed up, then I would be really stung that I didn't attend. Generally though, you look at the pics and you know without looking at the caption, who it belongs to and that you can't afford it. Look, it's nobody's fault....not the promotors, auctioneers, vendors, buyers, or even the economy or oil co's. Used to, enough unspoken-for quality merchandise showed up to go around and then some. I clearly remember going to ATM's & banks for cash advances or having my wife wire me more money because I couldn't stand to leave without just one more globe or that last Wayne 60 that was WAY too cheap. Heck, I remember buying a new trailer in Columbus one year because I bought so many cheap pumps. Those days are gone...IF by happenstance, a pump/neon/globe/rare sign or whatever shows up that 10 people didn't already know about, a riot is likely to break out.

#57724 Wed Jun 20 2007 02:43 PM
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Time for my 2 cents- I have been going to Columbus since early 90s and most every east coast show since they started- In early 90s there only was a couple shows within my driving range Iowa and Columbus- plus a couple big swap meets like Carlisle and Hershey- I and others miss the early buying frenzy- the 100 plus people lined up at the door etc-I talk about how it was - what I miss etc but I we have to look at the following
The past is just that- we have to look at the present and adjust
There are a lot of small regional shows- most collectors dont have to travel great distance to take in a show
Ebay is a fact of life- like it or hate it -its here
Auctions are here to stay and will increase as the Graying of us collectors continues

Comments are appreciated-if good post them-if not so good email me direct-




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[b] Wanted 5 quart cans -old speed equipment -1950-60s- Cad- Olds std shift parts - site at www.oilnspeed.com
#57725 Wed Jun 20 2007 02:58 PM
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I wonder how many guys were playing the Sub-Prime Pony for cash for petroliana collectibles, and just don't have the dollars to play anymore? Wall Street Journal said there will be many, many more home foreclosures this year,,,setting even higher records. You can only 'cash out' for so long on your home to buy stuff you don't really need.

Plus, I have a friend in the hobby who has been selling off a LOT of his collectibles this year because he has grown bored with it all and wants to return to street rods. Our tastes change as we grow older. Multiply this across the country plus the other economic factors and you will see changes, sometimes the ones we don't like to see.

I do believe a lot of show promoters could learn from Columbia.

#57726 Wed Jun 20 2007 03:02 PM
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Jeff's right....collecting is cyclical. Look no further than coke stuff.

#57727 Wed Jun 20 2007 03:29 PM
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Ohio Oil,
Sorry, I misunderstood your comments. I thought you were responding to all the thread commentary and not just the initial post.

That initial comment has me puzzled. I found no earlier post that told anyone "not to attend" the show. Therefore, I assume it must be hearsay or a misinterpretation of someone's comment.

Further observation on shows...

Don's recent comment on the old days: "I and others miss the early buying frenzy". Let me add to that thought. In that earlier time, most items purchased in the "buying frenzy" ended up in someone's collection. Today, many items purchased (particularly early in the show) end up on the buyer's table, for sale again with an additional markup. This process is repeated several times for many items. Again, the shows have essentially evolved into a convention of dealers. I ask, is this not a fair assessment of the current show scene??

Paul

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited 06-20-2007).]

#57728 Wed Jun 20 2007 06:24 PM
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I am going to add something to my previous post, even if they aren't my words.

One point I fell very strongly about is how the shows start in the middle of the week. This is NOT good for the hobby. I felt that Columbus was only a meeting of those most closely connected with the hobby. Alot of my sales went to other dealers, no problem here, I made really good money. But I stuck it out till Saturday at Columbus and had really good sales. I had several people (the kind of people we need to get more involved in the hobby) comment that they could not get off work and could only come on Saurday only to find that hardly anybody was there. It's these situations that will cause them not to waste their time next year if they know they are going to drive several hours to only a few vendors. I felt that foot traffic at Columbus was poor. I know this subject has been debated time and time again but the fact remains the shows are declining.
I will sign off with this final thought. The shows that have a controlled setup and teardown time are the best shows for the general public and I think the attendance reflects that.
Again just my opinion for whats its worth.
Tom Buckles.

Back to my previous post:

From the promoter to the vendor to the collector, everyone and everything needs to be more customer friendly. Those that do a good job of that will reap the rewards.

What ever a persons motivation or bias we all want to improve our bottom line, be it money or that one special piece that has evaded us. Like it or not, Tom's words tell the story.

Mick

#57729 Wed Jun 20 2007 06:50 PM
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WOW..... 2 cents from the kmann... number one... i don't like or go to too many shows.. why ???... you see the same sellers carting the same stuff from show after show. seems like a SHOW AND TELL more than "i'll sell this crapola to you at a decent price". market price. what i see is crapola grossly overpriced. no thanks... i'll catch it on ebay. look at it this way... i pass. auction and show ???... ain't gonna work. have one or the other. both together seems like a collision course from reasons previously stated. answers ???... none.

#57730 Wed Jun 20 2007 07:04 PM
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Hi! I'm one of the "new members to the site". I'm what you would call a very low volume casual collector. The only show I have been to is Iowa Gas, but I have read several comments in this thread that prompted me to respond with my perspective.

First, I agree wholeheartedly that it is EXTREMELY frustrating to get to a show after almost everyone has torn down early! I did that my first year at Iowa Gas. I would not have gone back if it wasn't so close for me (about 120 miles). I now take Friday off from work and try to get there first thing in the morning and do a quick walk through before the tear down begins around 11 AM! I will never take off anymore than 1 day to go to a show. This makes it a very regional thing for me.

Second, as a low volume casual collector, I feel like a guppy in a sea of sharks. The big time collectors with the big dollars pretty much rule the roost. Sooner or later, that's all that will be at these shows - a handful of high rollers. Maybe that is what is already starting to happen. I'm not sure how you stop this though.

In closing, I just want to say that if the promotors of these shows continue to cater only to the vendors and the "in the know" crowd, attendance will not grow. Establish set hours that the mainstream can attend and live by them by making the vendors live by them. Maybe we need 3 types of events - a show that is basically a swap meet - an auction that is only an auction - and a convention where dealers can buy, sell, and trade with other dealers.

#57731 Wed Jun 20 2007 07:05 PM
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One strong portion of the hobby is Seth's auction in February. You can always count on a lot of quality items. So, why does an auction like this do so well yet some of the shows are lacking?

I still predict Iowa Gas will be a big hit though. It is always a good time to go to Des Moines and check out the stuff that shows up. Yes, I know that some of the nicer items are pretty pricey but I remember back in the late 70's passing up on a couple nice globes that were priced at $70 bucks each and a Sinclair HC porcelain sign, mint, the guy wanted $40, but I was afraid my wife would shoot me for spending that kind of money!! I bought a pre-1957 D-X capco at a local sale in about 1980 that the auctioneer was going in 50 cent incrememts for $67.50 and I remember getting 'the look' when I brought that home!! And Mike O'Hern was bidding against me for it!! He always said 'there is no such things as friends at an auction' but I think he dropped out when he realized I wanted the globe! Mike also sold, years later, a Royaline porcelain sign for 1600 bucks that he had paid FAR FAR less for several years earlier and he called Pat Quail to see if he wanted to sell his and the same guy bought Pat's sign for the same money.

Moral of the story: You don't have to have a mint Musgo or Tiwoser globe or a Wayne Roman column pump to enjoy the hobby. The show you stay away from will have something you may want and somebody else will get it for a lot less than you would have paid.

God bless you Mike AND Pat. I know you guys are both swapping stories in the Promised Land.

#57732 Wed Jun 20 2007 07:05 PM
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Mick's comment: "I had several people (the kind of people we need to get more involved in the hobby) comment that they could not get off work and could only come on Saurday only to find that hardly anybody was there."

This complaint is heard all the time out here. I'm not a dealer but I'll take the dealer point of view for the sake of fairness. These folks that can't make it during the week and come on Saturday only...are they generally "lookers" or do they bring real money to spend on mid and high dollar items?? If in fact this "retail" crowd really doesn't buy much, I can't blame most dealers for packing up early and avoiding the extra time and expense to stay until the end of the show.

Bottom line, the escalating prices in the hobby have forced most serious collectors to eventually become collector/dealers if not outright dealers. Therefore, most of the serious buying, selling and trading is done between "dealers". Like it or not, that's how the hobby has evolved. IMO

#57733 Wed Jun 20 2007 07:38 PM
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i liked dewey's comments...

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