Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Columbus

Just back from Columbus. GREAT show location and accomodations. Very well run show. I was able to meet so many of you that I've only known from this site and from ebay. Wonderful people. From what I was told the turnout of buyers and sellers was off and many people are blaming whoever it was who posted a couple of weeks ago basically telling people not to attend. SHAME ON YOU. We need these shows and they need attendence for our hobby to continue. Don't listen to whoever it was and if he continues to bad mouth. We don't need jerks like that in the hobby.
Thank you Kaiser Family. Loved the show.
Ray

Hi Ray. Enjoyed talking with you at the show. I was standing in the hall talking with Paddy about Billups, on Thursday night, when yall stopped by and introduced yourselves. I fell like you do about the show, the turnout of buyers and sellers was off as compared to the past shows. That said, we still had a great time and I was able to find some items for my Texaco collection that I didn't have. Looking forward to next year. Great show, great people!! Larry

Ray what post are you refering too ? Don't remember it.

Did anyone take any photos ?

T

Ray, I think gas prices have more to do with it than anything. I heard the show vendors were down 25% or so and foot traffic was way down.

ANYONE TELL ME HOW TO GET THE RESULTS OF THE ITEMS THAT WERE SOLD AT THE AUMAN AUCTION ON THE 15TH ?
THANKS

I enjoyed the show!!! I am still here in Ohio at BooBoom's house in Salem....leaving for home tomorrow on that big bird. Enjoyed hanging around and spending alot of time with Bob (booboom), Ray (hotcider), Chuck (hemibird), Maurice(souperhigh),and Randy.
Also enjoyed visiting with Tomcolletez, Dave Thomas, Tom Buckles, T-way, and my "cuz" Phil McCauley.....lots of great people, good stuff, and buying some nice stuff for my collection and winning some other items at both auctions.....Now on to Dry Creek, Alabama next month and to Iowa in August!!!!!
Paddy

This was probably the best time I had at any show I've gone to. Not becasue of the show itself but it was because of the people I got to hang out with and meet! It's definitely a small community and I'm amazed at how many people you bump into at other shows across the country. You could only walk around the lot so many times looking at the same stuff but you never get tired of talking with old friends and meeting new folks.

Unfortuanately I did miss out on 2 killer signs I wanted....just didn't get to them quick enough! However, I did get to visit the Sign Museum in Cincinnati with a couple of great guys so that made up for it. I met so many new faces that I don't dare try to list them by name casue I know I would forget someone but it was indeed a pleasure meeting and chatting with each and everyone of you. I look forward to the next show.


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Chuck

Signs Wanted: Sunset, Clipper, Habor, Indian, Powerlube, Beacon, Sinclar Aircraft

Sorry I missed you Ray.......was there Thursday and Friday and saw lots of folks, but was hoping to meet you. Probably walked by you several times without knowing it. Hope you enjoyed your visit to Buckeye country.

Richard

What.....no restroom reveiw????

Ray, it was really nice meeting you and randy,chuck,art and maurice and his wife. you all are great people and hope to see you again soon. i just dropped paddy off at pittsburgh airport and knowing him when he looks out of the airplanes window at 40,000 feet he will spot a sign. I had a good time at show, bought alittle sold alittle, but meeting new friends and old friends, it's always great. you all have a great time and see ya in iowa.
bob

You can get the results at Proxbid then Aumann Auctions or later in the week they will have it on there site
Aumannauctions.com
thanks Jim

I had a great time at the show also. On the side I was set up on, it seemed there were almost no foot traffic. This show used to have people from everywhere and now it seems just vendor to vendor selling going on. I had several empty swap spaces around me and noticed alot of empty spaces on all the lots. I think the economy, the price of gas, and other things kept alot of people away.

"Economy and gas prices" I don't think that is a valid reason for poor attendence, vendor turnout, sales, etc. It is the price of the colletibles and advancement of the hobby in general......for most "advanced" collectors it is difficult to add anything to your collection for less than 1000 and probably requires 1500+. For most "working" (mid-upper middle class) this means that you are spending the same amount or more money but you are buying far less items. The days of going to Iowa or Columbus spending 3k and getting 5-10 nice items is over. In the present the scenario is more likely to buy 5-10 items annually and most are acquired through Mathews/Aumann, private sales and to a lesser extent ebay. So collector/buyer count drops. 10-20 years ago there was only one auction house and no ebay, shows were the only way to buy or see good stuff. Vendors can't sell the majority of what they can find at shows b/c there are not too many "entry" level collectors that attend national and even regional shows. Most entry level guys buy at local auction, ebay, swap meets, flea markets, ebay?. So vendor count drops.

I did not go to Columbus this year but have seen a decline or a sense of stagnant growth at Iowa, Columbus and other shows over the last five years. Please do not misinterpret, I love the shows and wish they would return the their former glory but I just see them on the downswing for the aforementioned reasons.

okoil,
I agree with most of your points on both the state of the hobby and the shows. However, in my opinion eBay has had a much bigger impact than you acknowledge. I've been collecting about 11 years and have been on eBay nearly as long. I estimate at least 3/4 of my collection was purchased on eBay. This is mainly due to ease of access and better pricing on eBay for most items. Granted, eBay is fraught with dangers if buyers are not careful. In addition, many high end collectors don't have the time or inclination to search the internet and prefer the traditional shows and auctions. That said, I don't think you can overestimate the impact of eBay on the hobby.

I think some of the prices at the shows have something to do with it as well. Granted the economics of a show are totally different, you have to pay for hotel, gas, space, etc so there's bound to be an "in person" premium. However, I typically see items prices 2, 3 even 4 times as much as any collector on this board would pay, especially for common stuff. I always come home with a few items and I love going to the shows, but its getting harder and harder for any kind of collector on a budget to find stuff at the shows. I've seen the same items from certain vendors dragged to the shows for 2-3 years and they still haven't sold, and I don't think the economy or gas prices has anything to do with that. There are many vendors that have perfectly fair prices on their stuff, but there's a lot who have prices totally out of whack with what most of us would pay for an item, and I think that scares people away or sends them to ebay.

One other point is that I see vendors pricing stuff at "mint" pricing on very "not mint" items. Some vendors get scared when they here something they have sold for 5000 bucks and they have one. All of a sudden, theirs is worth that much even though the one sold was near mint and theirs is beat up a little. I saw a "not mint" Chevrolet super service neon sign at the show for 14,000. Had this sign been priced according to condition, it would have been about 7000-8000. Probably would have sold also. Just my take, but the way prices on the high-end stuff is going and the middle-of-the-road stuff is stagnit or declining a little, people are not figuring out pricing just yet. No-get upset, just a take on what I see.

Having just returned from the Columbus show I have to put in my 2 cents worth. I think all the previous posts have made excellant points. I too noticed a decline in the vendor count. One reason I think is because it's is harder to find stuff to sell. The days of cracking open a bulk house and bring the find to a show is all but gone. You can't sell bread from an empty shelf so why set up to sell if you don't have it to sell. Next is the point of the same stuff show after show. This is why too many gas shows is not a good thing. Same dealer show after show, same stuff show after show. I have to admit I fall into this category sometimes. When I do score a big find it's usually gone in one show maybe two.
I enjoy meeting all the people at the shows and you cannot say enough about the fellowship with the great bunch of people you meet. Thats how contacts and buys are made.
One point I fell very strongly about is how the shows start in the middle of the week. This is NOT good for the hobby. I felt that Columbus was only a meeting of those most closely connected with the hobby. Alot of my sales went to other dealers, no problem here, I made really good money. But I stuck it out till Saturday at Columbus and had really good sales. I had several people (the kind of people we need to get more involved in the hobby) comment that they could not get off work and could only come on Saurday only to find that hardly anybody was there. It's these situations that will cause them not to waste their time next year if they know they are going to drive several hours to only a few vendors. I felt that foot traffic at Columbus was poor. I know this subject has been debated time and time again but the fact remains the shows are declining.
I will sign off with this final thought. The shows that have a controlled setup and teardown time are the best shows for the general public and I think the attendance reflects that.
Again just my opinion for whats its worth.
Tom Buckles.

Excellent points Tom. I'd never been to Columbus before this year because in the past I couldn't justify taking several days off of work, knowing that people start showing up on Wednesday. I'd venture to guess many if not most of the collectors out there fall into the same bucket as me. I think a lot of casual to mid-sized collectors are scared off figuring all the good stuff/deals are gone by Thursday and there's no use showing up Friday, let alone Saturday. A one day show starting on a Saturday morning (maybe with some early bird Friday night) I would think would bring the largest foot traffic. It may not allow for as much selling to other dealers, but it all depends on what you're looking for I guess.

Tom,

Great point on the vacation time. I have to take 4 days off to do Iowa, same for Columbus (more b/c it's 2 days there and back from Tulsa) but I can go to Columbia MO, just taking 1.5 days off also I can hit a Matthews auction in S. Ill w/ only taking a day or two.

I think that getting these shows and their auctions down to a two day format (Friday/Saturday) would greatly enhance attendance/success.

There's been a lot of good commentary about the shows and the state of the hobby. If you condense the various observations, it all boils down to the fact that the shows have evolved into primarily a convention for dealers rather than a platform for the retail trade. In my opinion, most of the suggestions for improving the shows won't really help. As Tom noted, the "good stuff" is just hard to find these days. This in turn drives up prices on the better pieces in existing collections. Today, most of the items at auctions and shows are recycled collections rather than new finds. Like it or not, that's the current state of the hobby. I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Well...I wasn't at Columbus, but I'd like to throw something out and see what you guys think. I think a show should be a show and an auction should be an auction and not both at one time. I realize it seems like a natural fit to have an auction before or after a show, because it seems like you would get the most bang for your buck as it pertains to bodies, but sometimes it seems like to me anyway, that there are just a select few buyers that will be BIG players at both the show & the auction. For example, I went to Peotone this year with a budget (so legislated by my business partner/bookkeeper/wife) of about $8000-$10,000. During the auction, I spent roughly $7000 leaving me at the most $3000 to spend at the show. Turns out, there were great pumps at the show for decent prices that I would've saved back money for had I known they were coming. Instead, I bought some quasi-restored stuff for strong prices at the auction and had to leave some really clean unrestored clockfaces that I would've much rather had. There are other various reasons that I think that the combo hurts both, but I'll keep them to myself for fear of starting WWIII.

People tell me all the time that they think I should do a swap in tandem with my February auction OR that I should do one sale in FEB and one in SEPT but again, I just think sometimes you can dilute things way too much. I've considered doing a swap by itself but NEVER in combination with my auction. Anyway, just my penny & a half.

I believe the pros and cons of Columbus have been well documented in previous posts to this thread. The positive ones were related mostly to the social aspect and the rest are attempts to correct what most believe are broken or at least bent a little. Don't get me wrong, I believe this is great communication and something that can help all of us enjoy the hobby, more.

From the promoter to the vendor to the collector, everyone and everything needs to be more customer friendly. Those that do a good job of that will reap the rewards.

Another thing we have to consider are the newer members to the site. We recently had the guess for the 6000 member. Well, since that time we have added 765 new members. I wonder what they are thinking, reading this?

My concern is that we won't take advantage of the opportunity to collectively work together to make the swap meets become better for all of us. I hope you guys prove me wrong.

It's a huge stretch to infer that the poor turnout at Columbus had anything to do with what's posted on this or any other website. Future growth or decline of gas shows will not be decided by what's posted on an internet message board. It's about economics pure and simple.

I agree with Tom.

Seth,
If there hadn't been an auction in Peotone would you have gone for just the swap? I tend to doubt it. Thats a long haul for you. You knew what was going to be in the auction and that enticed you to attend. You don't know whats going to turn up at the show.

I can tell you that attendance at the Peotone shows is better since they've been having auctions in conjunction with them.

Re: "It's a huge stretch to infer that the poor turnout at Columbus had anything to do with what's posted on this or any other website. Future growth or decline of gas shows will not be decided by what's posted on an internet message board."

I don't think anyone believes that this chatter has any direct influence on the success or failure of current or future shows. The commentary is simply addressing the reasons WHY the shows have been in decline.

Nancy and I attended the Columbus show for the 13th year. We went to both auctions and managed to buy a few items. Attendance was down, but sales were good. The people that came, brought lots of money. Enjoyed visiting with everyone. We drove 2400 miles...... Gas,food, and motel prices are hard on all of us. You just have to love the hobby! Look forward to seeing everybody at Des Moines.

Butch

If it was like Des Moines, I wouldn't go, I went there one time and basically felt I would need to be a millionaire to buy a few good signs, everything was overpriced except a few scarcer but well worn cans. One good thing was that
I told a vendor about my Conoco Motor Oil round sign and he ended paying me $6100, good price for something I bought 14years or more ago for only $170. Kills me when I remember the guy had 3 others for less money but they were a little rougher, If I only knew then how much these would jump up. Seems like most quality grade signs at Des Moines were $5000-8000

Bob...I go to Peotone not for the auction, nor the show. I go to make deliveries of items sold in my auction. Obviously, the only reason I'm able to make those deliveries is because guys are coming there for the show, so for that I'm grateful. And yes, it's nice to be able to buy some stuff while I'm there. I go to Chicago Coin-op twice a year most times without buying or selling a thing, except for making pick-ups and deliveries simply to beat the freight. I've been to Des Moines and Columbus probably 5 times each and have never attended the auction in conjunction with either. I've also been to Columbia 8 times and never went to their auctions back when they still did one. I've just never been a big fan of the auction/show combo. I actually think that Columbia has improved since they stopped trying to do an auction. If you make an offer on a sign, the guy can't come back with "well, if I don't get my price, I'll just throw it in the auction". Conversely, if you are selling, you don't have buyers walking around wondering if they should spend their money now or wait see if they can get something better or cheaper in the auction. Like I said earlier, this is simply my perception of the situation, but I do feel like I've got some practical experience in that, this feb's auction will be my 11th. Each year, we've brought in more $ with fewer pieces than the year before, even though some guys swear that I would do much better if I had a swap in conjunction with it.

I have to come back in on this and just agree totally with Seth. I hate to see someone so much YOUNGER than me make such a good point. I have read every post on this thread and his makes great sense as do others. I hope for the sake of the hobby that some of the show promoters read this stuff. Speaking as a working stiff with two kids in private schools--- champane tast and a beer wallet--- a weakness for the good stuff---- it pains me to have to go to a show with only enough money to get one good piece or not even that.

Seth, I can see where you're coming from but the auctions at Peotone,and Columbus were cataloged. Not like Iowa Gas where stuff floods in after the swap.

I understand why some dealers might not want an auction as part of a show. I can tell you as a buyer that I like the auction/show combination. I doubt seriously that any buyers stayed away from Columbus because there was an opportunity to buy so much stuff.



[This message has been edited by Lastgas15 (edited 06-20-2007).]

I don't post often but watch daily. you all have valid points. I think what some of us thats been in the hobby for a while are seeing is the evolution of the hobby. there are many more ways to buy this stuff then there was say 20 yrs. ago , aumann-matthews, plus all the other 100's of auctions year round. I liken e-bay to wal-mart as to what happens to small town businesses when they come in. so, yes I shop wal-mart and I use e-bay but still attend some shows and auctions. like I mentioned earlier, I think it's the evolution of the hobby and I don't think we're going back. just my opinion.

RE: "Another thing we have to consider are the newer members to the site. We recently had the guess for the 6000 member. Well, since that time we have added 765 new members. I wonder what they are thinking, reading this?"

My retort would be, what would they be thinking seeing $200 on a Fire Chief sign at one of the shows that nobody on this board would give more than $100 on even with a few cold ones in them. I'm 26, I've been collecting since I was 12. Back in my teens I could go to a show and come home with lots of good items with the money I made from a part time job, or mowing lawns, etc. You get the picture. Granted, it was a different time for the hobby, but all things are relative. Now, even with a good job and bringing a lot more money to the shows, I can maybe pickup one or two items that I feel I didn't get hosed on. I expect things to go up in value, but I don't expect to have to pay 50 to 75% more to buy it at a show than from a fellow collector, ebay, etc. There seems to be a disconnect between many of the collector-dealers and the ones who are primarily dealers. A lot of dealers started pulling up stakes at 10am on Friday. This was the first "official" day of the show! If that's not bad for the hobby and newcomers, I don't know what is.

I think everyone here has made excellent points, I don't think there's really an easy solution to it, it may as one person said, just be the evolution of the hobby. I'll still enjoy going to the shows, seeing old friends and meeting new ones, and maybe picking up some goodies. The shows still do provide a great service and the organizers are owed a big debt of gratitude for all the work that goes into putting one of those things together.

First one in, last one out. INTERNET is a killer. Why travel to a show or an auction if you can buy on line. It's hard to follow but my guess would be that a minimum of 33% of sales at both Columbus auctions were over the internet or phone. I also think the Wednesday auction hurt the show. People showed up Wed. and then had to stand around Thursday morning not allowed to open their space until 2:00. Do you really think that happened. First I'd like to see NO auction on Wed. Make it Thursday afternoon and let the show start on Friday like it should, first thing in the morning. Yes there were a couple of guys asking prices that I would guess caused them little or no sales, but overall prices were very fair in my opinion. Keep this show going but start it on Friday with NO EARLY SETUP FOR EXTRA MONEY. See you all at Iowa and I'm bringing my wife for her first show so be polite.

Pablo: I was responding to the intial post on this thread, which said;

"From what I was told the turnout of buyers and sellers was off and many people are blaming whoever it was who posted a couple of weeks ago basically telling people not to attend. SHAME ON YOU."

From Lastgas: "I can tell you as a buyer that I like the auction/show combination. I doubt seriously that any buyers stayed away from Columbus because there was an opportunity to buy so much stuff."

--------------------------------------------

Bob...that was far from my point, but I will give you a gold star for the semi-sarcastic zinger anyway. My dad (also my pastor) who counsels many couples every week always says that the reason it is so hard to get people to see eye-to-eye is because each person's perception is THEIR REALITY. That said, I PERCEIVE shows and auctions that are held as stand-alone events are superior to combination show/auctions. One need not look any further than the show at Columbia.

(Timeout...if any show promotor is reading this, please understand that we all commend the heck out of you and appreciate your efforts greatly, just know that we enjoy a little debate and banter and are in no way ungrateful for your efforts)

Back to Columbia. It is a singularly focused event held in a short timeframe. Vendor set-up & $25 early-bird @ noon Friday. Vendors stage up in pre-arranged rows and the buyers are standing in the building like pitbulls waiting for a steak. What comes out of those trucks & trailers is ALL the merchandise you are going to get, so you better get your cash out. This year, the weather was as bad as it could possibly be, yet it was still a great show.

Anyway, no matter how tough the pill is to swallow, the bottom line is the same as putting on a good auction. There are two main ingredients for success: MERCHANDISE & MAILING LIST. You gotta have great stuff & you have to let the right people know that it's for sale. Location, auctioneer, date, etc play a small part but at the end of the day, it's all about what's for sale & who's coming to buy it. Obviously, shows like CTO & IG are world-renowned, so what does that leave?? MERCHANDISE!! When people started doing show reports with pics, if I saw a whole bunch of fresh merchandise that showed up, then I would be really stung that I didn't attend. Generally though, you look at the pics and you know without looking at the caption, who it belongs to and that you can't afford it. Look, it's nobody's fault....not the promotors, auctioneers, vendors, buyers, or even the economy or oil co's. Used to, enough unspoken-for quality merchandise showed up to go around and then some. I clearly remember going to ATM's & banks for cash advances or having my wife wire me more money because I couldn't stand to leave without just one more globe or that last Wayne 60 that was WAY too cheap. Heck, I remember buying a new trailer in Columbus one year because I bought so many cheap pumps. Those days are gone...IF by happenstance, a pump/neon/globe/rare sign or whatever shows up that 10 people didn't already know about, a riot is likely to break out.

Time for my 2 cents- I have been going to Columbus since early 90s and most every east coast show since they started- In early 90s there only was a couple shows within my driving range Iowa and Columbus- plus a couple big swap meets like Carlisle and Hershey- I and others miss the early buying frenzy- the 100 plus people lined up at the door etc-I talk about how it was - what I miss etc but I we have to look at the following
The past is just that- we have to look at the present and adjust
There are a lot of small regional shows- most collectors dont have to travel great distance to take in a show
Ebay is a fact of life- like it or hate it -its here
Auctions are here to stay and will increase as the Graying of us collectors continues

Comments are appreciated-if good post them-if not so good email me direct-




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Wanted 5 quart cans

I wonder how many guys were playing the Sub-Prime Pony for cash for petroliana collectibles, and just don't have the dollars to play anymore? Wall Street Journal said there will be many, many more home foreclosures this year,,,setting even higher records. You can only 'cash out' for so long on your home to buy stuff you don't really need.

Plus, I have a friend in the hobby who has been selling off a LOT of his collectibles this year because he has grown bored with it all and wants to return to street rods. Our tastes change as we grow older. Multiply this across the country plus the other economic factors and you will see changes, sometimes the ones we don't like to see.

I do believe a lot of show promoters could learn from Columbia.

Jeff's right....collecting is cyclical. Look no further than coke stuff.

Ohio Oil,
Sorry, I misunderstood your comments. I thought you were responding to all the thread commentary and not just the initial post.

That initial comment has me puzzled. I found no earlier post that told anyone "not to attend" the show. Therefore, I assume it must be hearsay or a misinterpretation of someone's comment.

Further observation on shows...

Don's recent comment on the old days: "I and others miss the early buying frenzy". Let me add to that thought. In that earlier time, most items purchased in the "buying frenzy" ended up in someone's collection. Today, many items purchased (particularly early in the show) end up on the buyer's table, for sale again with an additional markup. This process is repeated several times for many items. Again, the shows have essentially evolved into a convention of dealers. I ask, is this not a fair assessment of the current show scene??

Paul

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited 06-20-2007).]

I am going to add something to my previous post, even if they aren't my words.

One point I fell very strongly about is how the shows start in the middle of the week. This is NOT good for the hobby. I felt that Columbus was only a meeting of those most closely connected with the hobby. Alot of my sales went to other dealers, no problem here, I made really good money. But I stuck it out till Saturday at Columbus and had really good sales. I had several people (the kind of people we need to get more involved in the hobby) comment that they could not get off work and could only come on Saurday only to find that hardly anybody was there. It's these situations that will cause them not to waste their time next year if they know they are going to drive several hours to only a few vendors. I felt that foot traffic at Columbus was poor. I know this subject has been debated time and time again but the fact remains the shows are declining.
I will sign off with this final thought. The shows that have a controlled setup and teardown time are the best shows for the general public and I think the attendance reflects that.
Again just my opinion for whats its worth.
Tom Buckles.

Back to my previous post:

From the promoter to the vendor to the collector, everyone and everything needs to be more customer friendly. Those that do a good job of that will reap the rewards.

What ever a persons motivation or bias we all want to improve our bottom line, be it money or that one special piece that has evaded us. Like it or not, Tom's words tell the story.

Mick

WOW..... 2 cents from the kmann... number one... i don't like or go to too many shows.. why ???... you see the same sellers carting the same stuff from show after show. seems like a SHOW AND TELL more than "i'll sell this crapola to you at a decent price". market price. what i see is crapola grossly overpriced. no thanks... i'll catch it on ebay. look at it this way... i pass. auction and show ???... ain't gonna work. have one or the other. both together seems like a collision course from reasons previously stated. answers ???... none.

Hi! I'm one of the "new members to the site". I'm what you would call a very low volume casual collector. The only show I have been to is Iowa Gas, but I have read several comments in this thread that prompted me to respond with my perspective.

First, I agree wholeheartedly that it is EXTREMELY frustrating to get to a show after almost everyone has torn down early! I did that my first year at Iowa Gas. I would not have gone back if it wasn't so close for me (about 120 miles). I now take Friday off from work and try to get there first thing in the morning and do a quick walk through before the tear down begins around 11 AM! I will never take off anymore than 1 day to go to a show. This makes it a very regional thing for me.

Second, as a low volume casual collector, I feel like a guppy in a sea of sharks. The big time collectors with the big dollars pretty much rule the roost. Sooner or later, that's all that will be at these shows - a handful of high rollers. Maybe that is what is already starting to happen. I'm not sure how you stop this though.

In closing, I just want to say that if the promotors of these shows continue to cater only to the vendors and the "in the know" crowd, attendance will not grow. Establish set hours that the mainstream can attend and live by them by making the vendors live by them. Maybe we need 3 types of events - a show that is basically a swap meet - an auction that is only an auction - and a convention where dealers can buy, sell, and trade with other dealers.

One strong portion of the hobby is Seth's auction in February. You can always count on a lot of quality items. So, why does an auction like this do so well yet some of the shows are lacking?

I still predict Iowa Gas will be a big hit though. It is always a good time to go to Des Moines and check out the stuff that shows up. Yes, I know that some of the nicer items are pretty pricey but I remember back in the late 70's passing up on a couple nice globes that were priced at $70 bucks each and a Sinclair HC porcelain sign, mint, the guy wanted $40, but I was afraid my wife would shoot me for spending that kind of money!! I bought a pre-1957 D-X capco at a local sale in about 1980 that the auctioneer was going in 50 cent incrememts for $67.50 and I remember getting 'the look' when I brought that home!! And Mike O'Hern was bidding against me for it!! He always said 'there is no such things as friends at an auction' but I think he dropped out when he realized I wanted the globe! Mike also sold, years later, a Royaline porcelain sign for 1600 bucks that he had paid FAR FAR less for several years earlier and he called Pat Quail to see if he wanted to sell his and the same guy bought Pat's sign for the same money.

Moral of the story: You don't have to have a mint Musgo or Tiwoser globe or a Wayne Roman column pump to enjoy the hobby. The show you stay away from will have something you may want and somebody else will get it for a lot less than you would have paid.

God bless you Mike AND Pat. I know you guys are both swapping stories in the Promised Land.

Mick's comment: "I had several people (the kind of people we need to get more involved in the hobby) comment that they could not get off work and could only come on Saurday only to find that hardly anybody was there."

This complaint is heard all the time out here. I'm not a dealer but I'll take the dealer point of view for the sake of fairness. These folks that can't make it during the week and come on Saturday only...are they generally "lookers" or do they bring real money to spend on mid and high dollar items?? If in fact this "retail" crowd really doesn't buy much, I can't blame most dealers for packing up early and avoiding the extra time and expense to stay until the end of the show.

Bottom line, the escalating prices in the hobby have forced most serious collectors to eventually become collector/dealers if not outright dealers. Therefore, most of the serious buying, selling and trading is done between "dealers". Like it or not, that's how the hobby has evolved. IMO

i liked dewey's comments...

I generally set up at one show a year. I'm a collector, not a dealer. Like most collectors I need to sell off some things to help pay for something I want to add to my collection. Some things I've noticed from setting up at the spring Peotone show every year except this year.
The show has had different promoters.
They have done a great job of adhering to the scheduled show hours.
Traffic has always been good.
Attendance improved when Aummans and now Matthews conduct an auction in conjunction with the show. The auctions are not officially part of the show (except for the first year when a local auctioneer who was also one of the promoters had an auction as part of the show).
Set up/dealer trading is Saturday. I generally make 50-60% of my sales on Saturday.
Dealers or collector/dealers usually buy my better stuff.
When they first started having early buyers hours there it was like a feeding frenzy. We couldn't sell stuff fast enough. Now there are fewer early buyers and they are much more casual.
The Sunday crowd generally consists of collectors that are on a lower budget and casual collectors (many of whom are car collectors). They do buy a great deal of merchandise if its priced reasonably.
Its a rarity for someone to leave the show empty handed. I don't buy the arguement that they are just lookers. Its my belief that all serios collectors from newby to veteran spend the same amount on their collections......all they can.

A SUCCESSFUL show will cater to the following:

Collectors wanting to buy merchandise.
If you don't keep the buyers happy attendance will drop. A weekend show is much more buyer friendly than a weekday show. Keeping vendors set up for the advertised hours is a must.
You need an early buyers period for the serious collectors and dealers looking to buy new inventory.

Dealers and collector/dealers wanting to sell merchandise.
You have to bring in the buyers if you're going to keep getting vendors. In the case of Peotone they generally draw 1000-1100+ buyers on Sunday. I think thats an incredible number considering theres dealer trading and early buyers on Saturday.

As I stated before I like the auctions held in conjunction with the shows. They drive attendance up at the shows. Do the auctions hurt the show sales? Its possible, but the same dealer that may lose a sale because of the auction probably bought something at the auction that he will sell at the next show.

One thing is certain. With two good auctions, a swap meet, the room to room swap, and the comraderie, the folks that went to Columbus last week had plenty of chances to enhance their collections and have an enjoyable few days. Wish I could have been there!

Early buying will NEVER stop simply because people are free to be there as early as they can afford. They can simply go over to the buffet restaurant and look in each other's trailer. This cannot and should not be stopped. BUT...the promotors should not lose their will to curtail OBVIOUS early activity. I feel sorry for those that are hosting hotel-based shows because the concentration of sellers/buyers gets thicker everyday leading up to the show. Like a Columbia or Peotone, guys are scattered prior to the show and COULD run into one another, but there's a chance you are seeing their merchandise first.

Sometimes, people give me a little **** about advertising No Parking Lot Sales, and actually having a cop enforce it. I see one guy wink at another and then I see them get up and leave. It's obvious there's a parking lot deal going on and I COULD CARE LESS!! The point is, that they are being discreet and not muddying the water. In 1999, before I had put this policy into effect, I had a really good pump buyer that I comped a hotel room for and gave steakhouse gift certificates to. In other words, I really jumped through hoops to get him here, because I knew it would pay off for my consignors (and me). Anyway, the morning of the auction, I get to the buidling and DIRECTLY next to the front door, literally taking up 3-4 parking spots, was a trailer full of pumps. There was a big poster advertising the prices & phone number. I was pretty p*ssed, since I had spent $20,000+ promoting this sale and here someone was going try and ride the coattails. I had the security guys call him and get the trailer moved, which they did. Anyway, the auction goes off as planned, but I notice my big pump buyer isn't buying pumps! After the sale, I asked him if he just didn't see anything he couldn't live without. He replies "no, I really wanted to bid, but after buying all the pumps outside, I didn't have anymore room". I decided then and there that I would begin to advertise no parking lot sales.

The moral of the story is, that there are always classy & discreet ways of skirting the rules (notice I didn't say breaking) and there are unclassy ways that detract from the event and make people feel like they are somehow "out of the loop". In combination with ALL of the reasons spelled out above, I feel like people stay away because they don't think there's any point.

Gotta sell a little in order to build a nice collection...the stuff is still out there too, priced right if you drive enough backroads and ask the right questions. At least in Oklahoma...

See you guys in Iowa...it'll be my first trip.

[This message has been edited by DCpate (edited 06-21-2007).]

BUMP

From the promoter to the vendor to the collector, everyone and everything needs to be more customer friendly. Those that do a good job of that will reap the rewards.

My concern is that we won't take advantage of the opportunity to collectively work together to make the swap meets become better for all of us. I hope you guys prove me wrong.

Hello guys, over here in Australia we have a big swap meet with about 2500 sites at the country Victorian city of Bendigo. The gates open to the vendors on Friday afternoon and the general public comes in early Saturday morning. If you get caught selling on the Friday you are kicked out and banned from re letting a site!! It does sound harsh but it works very well, more and more people come each year because the average collector still gets the chance to pick up a real good piece.
We are having trouble finding quality stuff here in Australia also, I think most people sell their junk at swap meets etc.. and their good stuff on ebay.
And why not!! At the swap meet you get your prices knocked down - on Ebay you get them knocked up!

My dad and I have been going to the Columbus and Iowa shows for roughly ten years now. Both of us have commented more than once that while we may not have picked up a lot of items at the shows, we almost always find an item that really makes the trip. We do buy a lot on ebay, but the shows have the social aspect, as well as items that I know I never would have the opportunity to buy on ebay. Does it justify the expense of traveling? I don't know, but its tough to put a price on some of the experiences, people, and items that we've come across going to the shows.

Fred Stoke & I run his Gas Bash in Santa Rosa, CA. It's a fairly low key event with about 35-50 vendors. No parking fee, no admission fee, low cost for a space with LOTS of room to set up. We've tried different things over the years (auction, dinner, etc.) but the best thing about the show is the people. I've met some really great people that I now call friends through this show. We try to keep the atmosphere "light" & have fun!!!! People like Ray (hotcidr), flying A man (Craig), Mike Slama the glass master, the L.A. boys, Steve Castelli, Turlock Bob, Frank Jones, etc. are the guys that we enjoy seeing & they bring good stuff & they're always looking for good stuff too. ebay is great for finding stuff but NOTHING replaces seeing something in person & seeing the person that is selling it. JMO

Almost forgot, the Lodi corner is the REAL reason for the bash!!!

I've heard the grass NEVER GROWS THERE & it's ALWAYS MUDDY !

Mostly true............

Tom Almost thought you forgot the Lodi corner. Fred's show I will never miss. Best run show on the west coast. Calling for two reservations this year in the corner. Ted

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Ted Pam & Ethyl Roach
Lodi CA.
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield