Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Petroliana Value Questions ESSO Happy Motoring ...... Real or Fake?

Just wondering if this is a repop? The ones I've seen do not have the grommets. Any help - much appreciated

The repop ones I've seen do not have the grommets ...just to clarify!

Its fake. It does not pass the "where/how was it used test"!

that not a test it's an opinion. i have dead mint signs from the 40's & 50's. does that mean they are fake too?

Shows with grommets from retro planet.

Here is a little blurb on the History of the ESSO Man

http://blog.retroplanet.com/the-esso-oil-drop-man/

...you need to read Luke's post again...he's quite right - if you cannot come up with a logical use for a questionable item, it's very likely a fantasy piece...

Your very question is a solicitation for opinions???

i have read luke's post and if you applied that to every sign, advertising it's product so you buy it's product or remember it or for whatever reason it was made, what logical use are they compared to the esso sign. if i asked if a questionable mobilgas sign was fake or real what logical use is that sign compared to the esso. what's the difference? having any sign from whatever era from any company that is no longer in business what logical use is owning it. buying a gas pump that you restore, put thousands of dollars into it but never pump one drop of gas with it.......it has no logical use other than you like it or for investment reasons or both......does that make it fake since it has no logical sense of use other than investment or you like it. luke's opinion and the ones that followed.....now they make no logical sense. but that is my opinion which is what i was after in the first place about a simple esso sign on whether it was real or fake. it has no logical sense on owning it other than i like it but don't want to buy it if it's a fake. just like so many other collectors in this hobby who come to this site looking for accurate knowledge.

and thanks man cave for the your reply in trying to help me here.

I just meant that you have to consider how the sign was used back in the day. Its a smaller sign I presume, so it would have to have been mounted onto something.Not a gas pump, it would not have been used as a "flat mount" on station, and i find it unlikely that it would have been used on an oil rack. Couple that with the fact that it is a highly recognizable and iconic logo, and you have the potential for a fake. Personally, I think it looks very suspicious. Not trying to offend anyone.

ok thanks for your opinion. just the fax ma'am, just the fax.

First off, the sign is either European (I make no claims to knowledge of foreign gasoline marketing and related collectibles) or it is a fake. This was not used in the U.S. Plain and simple. But to clear up Luke's point and to reiterate what Mark was saying, every real sign had to have some logical purpose. How was the sign used? Signs were made for some purpose, and if the size/shape/logo/image/configuration (flange, flat, one sided, two sided, etc.) cannot be fit into some logical use, and particularly if the sign is fanciful, very graphic, or would otherwise be desirable for collectors, it is suspect. Not necessary fake or fantasy, but certainly suspect. Once a piece is considered suspicious, then look to fine details like shelving, grommets, color, typeface, etc. and evaluate the sign on those merits.

I'll give an example that I recently experienced myself, and then put this sign through the same process. Don't ever forget that we (collectively, the hobby) don't know everything. Every month for 20 years there have been enough discoveries for the "Discoveries" column in PCM. Never fails we find something new, enough to fill at least a page. So newly discovered items surface all the time. Keeps it interesting.
My Example:
Several months back three new Crown Central pump plates surfaced. I have them now, and with them got photos that document how/where they were used. They are no doubt real. But this find was from what is likely the most studied company in the industry, but one where there are still A LOT OF UNKNOWNS, even by the company itself. The signs not only a great find, but a whole set that was a new find. The point, however, is that when they surfaced, it was a "logical" find. Crown had a disjointed marketing outpost, in Houston, and used slightly different images there and offered a motor/economy grade fuel in the 1960s, Crown Bronze, that was not sold in their home territory here on the east coast. Also, in everything I had researched about the company, there had been no 1960s photos turn up showing anything from their Houston market. When these signs surfaced, instead of immediately thinking "here is some kind of repro, some kind of scam" as so many seem to do, I put two and two together and hypothesized, "since this set contains three signs, Crown Gold, Silver and Bronze and since Bronze was only sold in Houston, and since we have no photos or evidence of what the Houston stations/image looked like in this era, then the entire matching set must come from Houston and be a new discovery, instead of someone's idea of a fantasy piece with which to scam someone." To further follow the logic, reproductions MUST HAVE A MARKET where they will sell for their maker at a profit. These signs, though attractive to me, did not have airplanes or Indians or any of the "wow" graphics that make collectors crazy these days. And they are from a company that only a very small number of folks are interested in. When these surfaced I was startled, but I quickly went through a series of if-then logic questions, then bought the signs, and only then confirmed with the seller that he had worked for the company IN HOUSTON in the 1970s and had found these in some stuff in his office, along with some station pictures that confirmed their use. Case closed. Now, apply that logic back to the Esso sign in question:
Facts:
The Esso oil drop character came out in the late 1950s, used through the mid-1960s.
The female version was used more extensively in Europe than in the U.S., in fact I can't think of anything used in the U.S. other than images in printed material, that uses the female character.
Esso marketed in 18 states, continuous territory, and we have thousands of surviving photographs showing every detail of Esso stations, advertising, signage, etc. There are no real "unknowns" when it comes to Esso, and very few "unconfirmeds"
Documentation exists in the hands of the hobby that shows pretty much every Esso advertising campaign, marketing push, and so forth they ever used.
With all of that we have no evidence of the sign in question.

Okay, so how was it used? Could it be a new discovery?
Pump sign? It doesn't advertise any specific product/grade.
Building sign? Too small, could never be clearly seen from the road at the speeds prevalent at the time it was used.
Truck sign? remotely possible, but again, no photographic evidence.
Go through the list and give the logic test to each type of sign..I think we can rule out rooftop neons, or credit card signs, or any of the 30 or so different classifications of signs.

So, using the if-then logic that is the point of my ramblings
IF we have no photographic evidence, no literature references, and no memory from those of us who were collecting this stuff in Esso territory at the time the sign would have been in use
AND IF
We can find no logical purpose for the sign
AND
It is fanciful, with characters, and is the type of sign that would sell for big money to collectors, making the specter of repro a financial reality
Then it must be fake/fantasy
OR, IN AN EXCEPTION, since this is from Esso and we do not have the same photographic or documentary evidence from their overseas marketing, it is possible that it is foreign.

If it is foreign, then someone from overseas will need to put it to the same series of questions and logic tests. If those tests indicate that IT COULD exist, then start examining the sign for obvious problems - grommets, colors, computer typefaces, all of the fun clues we get on repro or fantasy items.

I know this is complicated, but the logic has never failed me. So, like bank tellers handling real money so as to learn to detect counterfeit money, handle the real thing - educate yourself, go to shows, look at every collection you can, buy the books, read the magazine to learn what is real, what exists, and then apply logic when you encounter a piece you've never seen before. Trust your instincts. No one fraudulently reproduces a piece to make a $15 profit.

Watch for an article regarding this subject in an upcoming issue of PCM, and to the one exception to the logic rule that occasionally turns up a great piece!

ok wayne i look forward to the article.

Well stated Wayne

Wayne, thanks for expanding on what Luke said. With that explanation everyone should be able to understand.