Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion A thought to always remember!

Today we are "throwing away" or not taking care of some things that will be collector's items 20 years from now. Think about it, probably 95% of the visible pumps ended up at the scrap yard because they were obsolete and considered "an obsolete piece of equipment" when the electric pumps came out. And the chain of events continued throughout the evolution of the gas pump. It's like the 60's and 70's pumps are being replaced by the modern card swipe MPD's (multiple petroleum dispensers) and no one is thinking that the pumps being replaced are "worth anything" DON'T be fooled, history always repeats itself! This topic holds true for much more than just gas pumps. Regarding something we take for granted today, in 20 years we will say "boy, I wish I held on to those _whatevers_??, I threw hundreds of them away!". I hope you guys get my drift. THANKS!! gas pump freak

You're probably right.....and I'll probably regret not getting those 14 "T" pumps for a dollar (for all) 6 1/2 years ago. I don't regret it right now though.
Bob

I believe you are probably right also... and I agree that History does repeat itself.
What we are throwing away today... relates directly with what they tossed out yesterday..
No value.. obsolete.. just another piece of junk for the landfill..
The "junk" that does survive will probably make some future collector's day complete when he/she discovers it someday...
and the rarity of it will only add to the value.
I say... let nature take it's course.. so future generations will have as much fun with the hunt as we are having today.

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Frank

Its true...13 years ago when I started collecting quarts...i went to every autoparts store on my way home and dug through their garbage and snagged every plastic quart i didnt have.... everynight!!!!.. I went home smelly and a bag full of plastic quarts. I must have had 600 different plastic quarts...I went through a divorce and got an apartment where i had no room for them...i wasnt going to pasy fro a storage unit because I didnt have the money and no one would store them for me because the were "Garbage" I ended up tossing them in the trash...I bet I will regret it someday...Kinda miss them...but not that much....yet...LOL
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Hubba

I agree with the original post. We have been giving serious thought to grabbing every "T" pump we can find. The stainless usually cleans up real well, blast the door panels and paint in primer, then let them sit a decade. Right now they can still be bought for $25 -$50 a piece. As a former service station owner (Marathon) I can't believe what I let slip through my hands before I started collecting. Who knows though what will be collectable in twenty years.

I disagree. First off, if everybody is saving the newer stuff it will be less collectible because it is too plentiful. Secondly, we live in a throw away world today. Even today's cars will NEVER have the investment potential that 60's musclecars have today. The same follows suit with today's petroliana. Case in point. Say you go out and buy a 2004 Mustang GT convt. and spend $33,000 for the priveledge and put it away with less than 20 miles on the clock. 15 years or so go by. You bring the car out to auction it off at Newport Beach and the car MIGHT fetch 10 or 12 grand IF your lucky. That was sure a good investment, wasn't it? I was at Jim Perkin's shop in Wisconsin (Mustang restorer-expert) several years ago and this exact thing had happened with an '86 GT Mustang. Today's cars are throw away. So are today's petroliana. We all adore this stuff BECAUSE it takes us back to a simpler time in life that we remember. Who wants to remember today?? The new kids coming up now will be collecting Play Stations and video games because THAT is what will take them back to their youth. They are not into cars and petroliana like we are. That is what they will collect. Not plastic oil bottles.

Hey Midway... I agree with you completely. You hit the nail right on the head... My collection of petro and retro relates directly to fond memories of my youth during the 50's and 60's...
I cannot imagine my kids relating to "gas and oil" when they are my age.


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Frank

I agree with Midway. most of us remember going to or working in the old filling stations. useing the lubester to put in a qt of cheap oil , mom makeing you go outside to play cowboys and indians, = Hoppy, Gene, Roy,Gabby Hayes, Whip Wilson, Lash LaRue, Bob Steel that was me only 5'2, ha ha . play on a swing made of an oldrubber tire in a tall tree. or takeing your bike apart. todays young can't get out from in front of the T.V. as he says everything is throw away. and back then was a simpler time, Andy Hardy. Have fun with the old stuff its better any way.

Boy, ol' Midway can sure suck the air out of a post. I happen to agree with him. I remember in 1978 wanting to buy the Silver anniversary Corvette. I had plans of bagging it and putting it into storage. Only to open it up years later, sell it as an Original, Non-driven Vette. Boy am I glad I didn't have the money to flush that idea down the toilet.
However, that doesn't keep me from wondering what will be the big collectable for the kids of this era? maybe Cell phones? By then, they will probably all have little cell chips implanted in their ear someplace.

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Don "oltoydoc" Sherwood
Vintage Gas

I agree somewhat. Certain things will be valuble in the future. Some young kids think of nothing but video games but the young adults I'm around on a daily bases still like those cars. They may not be muscle cars but Hondas and Toyotas keep em going. Most of the young guys I know would prefer a 50's or 60's muscle car but the Japanese are more affordable until you get way wild. I bought a 57 Corvette in 67 for $150 and had a total of $1500 in it. My dad told me I was nuts. Well Dad you were wrong on this one. I never sold any of my old cars and the value is way higher than what I paid.You guys that went out and bought the car brand new I don't know what to tell you. Maybe should have waited a couple years and picked them up cheap. As far as young guys not caring about gas and oil things some of you guys better off your stuff right now. I think there are quite a few young guys getting into this. Have fun collect what you want and better enjoy it even if the value goes in the dumps. Ted

I agree we live in a throw away society...That is exactly why this junk will be worth money later..most of it got thrown away. I am sure in 40 years or so all this junk will be worth more than trash. Thats just my opinion though. i try to just buy metal quarts and composites that are really interesting but if I had the room ...I would have kept those plastic oil bottles and made a plastic oil bottle room...I am just a gas geek oil freak like that. I also agree ..when my kids are older that they will be seeking out different things to collect weather its old playstation games or whatever ....but I played pong and early atari when I was a kid and have absolutely no interest in it now. Focus changes as we get older and thats why these "throw aways" will be collectible later. Might not be tomorrow but someday someway this junk will be sought out by some future gas geek oil freak in my opinion anyway. This is what makes this site so great, we can express our opinions in a respectful fun manner...HOOOORAYYY..LOL
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Hubba, gas geek , oil freak

I agree about the plastic quarts and all. I still think there will be a market though for the 60's era pumps that aren't being collected much yet. That's the thing with any collectable/hobby, if anyone knew with any certainty what the next big thing is gonna be in twenty years you could make a small fortune. I think we all will be surprised at what our kids and grandkids collect.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, this is a tough one!
ive thought about this before.
"""the whole problem is you just cant predict the future!"""
i know one thing hindsight is 20-20!!!!!!

another thing for sure is the GOOD stuff is always the GOOD stuff & always was GOOD & always will be!
A 70 chevelle SS was hot right away & still goin strong! a wayne 60 was always hot & still is etc... a 57 chev hardtop, a 32 ford coupe was a hot item new & hotter than ever yet today! etc..... --- ive even seen certain neat lookin cereal boxes sell high!?????! --------
when i drive an SS chevelle to work & kids ride theyre bikes in to use the pop machine from age 6-16 they say hey thats a SS chevelle i want one of those someday. if a teen drives in in a souped up V-tec honda he looks at that chevelle & says id really like to own one of those someday so i think the future holds good for that item!

i see this young guy buying bicycles that were THE HOT STUFF when he was younger & couldnt afford to get one, he chases after some bikes that arent even that old yet when the owner gets his drivers license hes there buying the guys 3-4-5 year old bike for nothing, he says im getting ahead of the game right now. only after the "HOT" desireables! hes even bought a few new bicycles that he thinks will be the good investments.

its hard to predict the future but the desireable stuff usually seems to carry right on through!

What is scary is young people aren't gonna remember much of the stuff we collect. In 20, 30, 40 years kids wont know old gas pumps, round top pop machines, 45RPM jukes and etc... there might not be much demand for them. Maybe then I can afford some of the stuff I really want?

Just my two cents: There are enough Dads (and moms in come cases) that are into the hobby that will no doubt bring their children up into the hobby. What kid doesnt want to be just like their dad or mom, no matter how crazy they may be. Heck my 5 and 6 year girls love Texaco and Shell, they love it so much the top of their list christmas item was a green texaco shirt complete with a bow-tie and patch. Aside from this Petroliana will never die, it will just continue to modify itself and new and different things will become collectable, the case of the blend pump is a great example! The Eighties style Texaco round light-up sign! Cardboard quart cans! and many other examples.

My philosphy, grab it all, store it and see what happens, if nothing else you will be remembered as that crazy guy who collected junk and really I think we are all little off our rocker! At least I know I am, wait until the middle of the month and I will post pictures of what my family and I are trying to acquire (A Pertolinia / CITY oasis not far from the Seattle summer drive!!)

Desirability has a lot to do with worth, not just age. As such, supply and demand plays an important role in this. Desireable things in short supply bring more money. If you have a one off and nobody wants it its really worthless. Just a few of my learnings in my years of wheeling and dealing and basic economics.
Jeff

YES, and rare does not always mean desireable!!!!!!

DESIREABLE<<<<<<<<< key word!

kaiser cars are cooool & rare! park a 55 chev next to a 55 kaiser, bring in 100 guys & see who really wants which one!

same with gas pumps themselves, line up 30 different 6 foot electric pumps & bring in a guy off the street thats never looked twice at a gas pump & tell him to pick the 5 out that he likes the best. --- its usually self explanatory. ---
i know absolutely nothing about old coke or pepsi machines, only that id like to have one someday. line up 20 different 10 cent machines, ill pick the one out i want!!!

but then everythings good!!!!!
collect what you want!
nomatter what it is, if it turns you on its a go!!!!!!!!!!!
if your going for the investment thing (PAY UP MAN!!!) shoot for the top shelf stuff!!!!
as far as what the future holds.....is anybodys guess!

Gotta go with Midway too...I also think that the early days were a time to remember...and today's kids will be nostalgic for things from their time...maybe. I say maybe because we, that are in our 40's to 70's, lived in a special time in history and many of us have the resources to collect...some have so much money to work with, it would truly blow the minds of those that actually worked at the service stations back in the day. I don't think anyone in the 1920's collected late 1800's horse shoes, but I could be wrong.
I think in the 1920's they worried more about basic things, like eating and staying warm.....

Send me those cardboard signs,plastic bottles etc and I'll put them down in the barn next to the square Coke-Pepsi machines.My grandkids will need a little cash some day.
I peddled for Cities Service 30-some years ago and it's all desirable now,EVERYTHING

I will have to disagree with Midway. I do not remember any of this stuff. I grew up with the T pumps and convience stores. Never saw a pump with a globe on it ever. However, I like all this stuff including visibles, electrics, signs, cans, globes, ect. Does not matter how old it is as long as it is not new. I have a brother 5 years younger than me who started collecting this stuff when he was in high school. He is only 29 now and still going strong. I bet there are other guys out there just like me. How about Aquaelvis?? If this stuff is not going to be worth anything a few years down the road you guys better start dumping it and I will be getting it!

Several years ago my nephew went to an auction with me. On the way home we saw a 71 Chevelle parked on the other side of the street. Larry said "thats a cool "OLD" car. I did a double take and asked what "old" car. To me it wasn't old. It was a car from when I was a kid. Tom is right. The good stuff has always been good. It will likely be good for quite some time.
I grew up when "T" pumps were in use. They don't do much for me though. A Bennett 541, a Wayne 60, a Tokheim 36, now those are cool! The old visables and clockfaces are just too old for me. I can't relate to them. What will the hot petro collectibles be in 20 years? My guess us veteran collectors will still like basically the same things we like now. The guys that are 15-20 now will be getting to the point in their lives where they can really afford to start collecting seriously. I don't they'll be collecting plastic oil bottles. I think they'll be collecting video games, computers,dvd's. Some will collect aluminum baseball bats (they'll be using composite bats in 20 years), inline skates and the like. I don't think the future collector will have much interest in T pumps or plastic oil bottles, or even most of the stuff we find cool.
Bob

One thing no-one touched on is matching a pump to a vehicle. A T pump would look ok with an 80,s car a visible would not. So people that work with and display a certain vehicle usually want the pump era to match the cars. A visible just dont look right with a motorcycle, but looks pretty good with a model A. Part of the reason I like some of the pre-visibles without doors is I like early bikes. A handcrank pump looks great with a teens bike. Also what I like about the handcranks is they are very mechanical and nothing is hidden on them, you can look at it for a minute and figure out how it works. And handcranks are easy to display with a bike at a show, make a wooden box and just carry it.
However I dont recall ever seeing one in use(but still find them interesting and desireable), but did find one 1/4 mile from where I lived. Got used to fill a school bus.
Desireability is a great factor in building appreciating value in a collectible. Some things were just so cool to look at and touch that people have to collect them, and they will remain popular for a long time.
Biggest factor in keeping stuff for speculative future value is storage. Usually costs one way or another, and if things change and you lose storage it can be a big problem..hard to throw stuff out especially after moving it a few times, taking care of it and having paid cash for it.
Interesting subject...dodogas

Terry-When you mentioned Cities Service it
reminded me of an old gent(imagine me calling someone else old)I ran into this past summer.I use to work for him at a Cities Service station in 1960-61 I told him that I was restoring a pump from that
era,and what their selling for now.He said and we used to throw them away.HMMMMM.
maybe I'll have to do one in Cities Service.
---JERRY

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near here is a place a guy has & there are some old cars sitting out & sheds, barns & garages full, PACKED FULL of stuff, the guy lived there for over 50 years, & collected some even before that. i drove by the place whenever i was in the area but never really saw any action around there so i never stopped!
I once asked a guy who knew him good, what all was at that place? the guy told me theres not ONE thing in that whole place id want so probably nothin youd want either!!!

ive since gotten to know the guy & i helped him move some cars around his yard one day, i dug & dug around his place like an animal. ive even been in the attics! NOTHINS FOR SALE but ive dug all over the place & came out as filthy as a pig! if i drove a trunkless corvette over there i could carry everything home id even want in the passenger seat! LOL!!! .........BUT hes a GOOD guy & he loves his TREASURES! --- (model T running boards that were run over by a train or somethin!? 5 gallon oil cans you cant read! ford wrenches so pitted they look like they'd break! etc...) the neat thing about it is hes got a story for every piece!
he says when im gone & theres an auction ill bet youll be the first guy here!?!
i said OHHHHH YEAH!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!

as far as IM or anyone else whos been there is concerned, THE GUY COLLECTED/HUNG ONTO THE WRONG STUFF!!!!!! but he had a BLAST collecting it & loves to tell everyone about it!!!!!
although i really did enjoy hearing the stories!!!!!!

2 Tone, I bet the guy did not spend much on the stuff!! Some people can have amazing amounts of stuff with almost none of it worth much.

Got a buddy he never ever buys anything really good, doesnt spend much either. Has a bunch of cheap die-cast bikes, problem is they look it too!! Sorta guy that you tell him you saw something he would like at a garage sale. Tell him at 9 or 10 in the morning, he will say maybe I will go there in the afternoon!! I say "Why even bother"

Oh well, best is to collect what makes you happy. If it was made to be collectible, it probably isnt!!
Wonder if the Beanie Baby market went flat yet?? If anyone evers sees me buying one of them "Just Shoot Me" and get it over with...LOL..dodogas

No offense but I think some of you are too quick to say the modern petro stuff won't be collected. There were probably a bunch of guys sitting around 60 years ago that would have laughed if they saw you dragging a Tokheim pump through the streets to take it home, let alone the response if you were to go through their trash looking for quart cans. There are millions of events yet to occur, some of which may vastly alter what people are going to collect. For example, if cars go electric, if alternative fuels come into use, a huge reduction in American corporations etc.. etc.. Whatever causes people to connect with their past is going to be what they collect.

I guess you should collect what you like, whatever gives you enjoyment, not to just make a buck. Im pretty young for what I collect. Im 27 and I own lots of stuff from the 50's (53 chev,gas pump,pinball,pop machines,jukebox,etc..) and I wasn't around at that time, but I love that style of stuff. I probably got the "bug" from my dad, as he has lots of cool stuff like that. As for people not remembering old stuff in the future. My parents collect old furniture from the 1800's (and they weren't around then). That stuff is still very collectible. So if you like it and it makes you happy; Get it.

I Think people will collect what they associate with there younger years. As in the collector car market, The values increase as the people reach an age where there is more disposable income. We have seen the values of antique cars level off (model A, Model T) as the people who has the desire to own one these cars actually purchase one. The current activity in the muscle car segment shows that the motorheads of the late 60's-70's now have reached a point in there lives they can afford a muuscle car, I think the same holds true for the gasoline collectibles.

Yeah guys, the bottom line to all of this is collect whatever it is you like!! I don't care if the prices go up or down, honest. I just love having petroliana sitting around my garage and it is a lot of fun huntin' it down! Our hobby will be going strong long after we're all in that big oil field in the sky. Dodogas, I was at a sale last winter that had a lot of Beany Babies.(I was there for a Zephyr globe on a red ripple body) They were selling them BY THE LOT, 10 or 12 to a box, for FIVE BUCKS a pop. Yikes. My sister-in-law was convinced they were really going to take off and she sunk a lot of coin into them. Ouch....

Midway,
Was that auction last winter or the winter before? Sounds like a sale I was at two years ago. I came home with a Zephyr on a red ripple with screw on base. Didn't have the cash to get the Zephyr Ethyl on red ripple with the base damage. Was that you that got the ethyl? If so we were about 2 feet away from each other. Both globes sold at very reasonable prices.
Bob

Hey Lastgas...yeah that was me!! Small world. I guess it WAS 2 winters ago how time flies.Yes, I bought the Ethyl Zephyr on red ripple. They lite up nice!! When the bidding closed the first round and you were going to take choice, the auctioneer stated "Ah, he takes the one that is not cracked" and then he opened the bidding again. This threw me. I saw the chip out of the base but I thought "cracked??" I hadn't seen THAT. Even after I got home I would look at this globe and say to myself "Cracked??" I guess I'm too kind hearted. Felt bad for a guy that was there with his young son that really wanted one of those globes. Before the sale I overheard him tell his young son "I bet they sell for a hundred bucks each. Hope they don't go THAT high." The guy looked like he was really down on his luck. Hope he finds a globe someday....

Midway,
I had run across that auction listing online. I called the auctioneer to get more info on the globes since the ad just said two gas pump globes. I asked what brand they were. He said Zephyr. I asked if he could describe them. He said small. I asked if the were round or oval. He said oval....I think. I asked if they were blue with a diagonal white band with red letters. He said YES! I think OK, cool, I like ovals. I made 2 1/2 hour drive, park the car 300 feet away and immediately see they are red ripples!!!! I started to panic. I only brought enough cash to buy ovals. I check out the globes. The lenses on both were in great shape. The ethyl is missing the screw on base and has a chunk out of it (that a new screw on base would cover), the other body has a little weak paint near the base but not bad. I find the auctioneer and introduce myself. He said he was sorry that he told me wrong and asked if these were worth the drive. He asked if they were worth $100 each. I told him they were better than the ovals but I had only brought enough cash to buy the ovals and asked if he'd take a check. He said sure, no problem. I told him I'd open at $300. I had gotten there pretty early. I looked them over right away then stood where I could see who looked like they would be serious buyers. Two guys were looking at them, one of them elbowed the other and nodded towards me the other guy glanced up at me. I couldn't place them at the time but they are pump dealers I see at swap meets. Those are the only two guys I saw look at them like they were going to be serious buyers. I didn't see you look at them. I remember hearing some people in the crowd gasp when I opened the bidding at $300 LOL. The guys I thought were going to be bidding never got a bid in. It was just you and me. I thought both globes sold at very reasonable prices, but that was the most I had ever spent on a globe. I thought my wife was going to be upset because I spent so much money. Right before Christmas too. She wasn't. I told her about the globe you bought and said I wished I had been able to buy it too. She said you could have bought it. Go figure.
Bob

Neat story Lastgas!! I'm REAL glad you didn't bring enough cash for BOTH globes for my sake.....my wife also said 'Too bad you didn't get them both, you broke up the set.' I was playing the same game you were 'well, it's close to Christmas and I'd better show some restraint.' I asked the clerk who bought the other globe when I went to pay and she said "you just missed him by about two minutes. He just paid and left." She said "I think he is a contractor from down south (Ill.) Anybody below Peoria is 'down south.'

Anyway, I think our paths crossed again at a farm sale over near Gibson City one super cold Feb. day, snow blowin' the whole bit not long after the Zephyr sale. There were two cast one-piece Indian globes with 'Havoline'(sp?) down the side. One went for something like 21 hundred or 22 hundred and the other went for around 16. A guy bought both of them, have never seen him around. Older guy. I bid up to 15 on the first globe and was out of cash so I bailed. It was the better of the two. Should I have bought it?? No regrets. I can find another one some day they aren't impossible to locate. Was a super neat globe though......now if I can only find a Torpedo gasoline from Ill. Oil Co.-------

Midway,
She had the contractor part right, but I live near Kankakee.
I remember the sale with the Indian globes well. It was COLD! I was 2nd bidder on one and maybe 3rd on the other. I know the guy that bought them but I won't mention his name here. He GAVE the one with the BB hole to a friend of his. You're probably thinking nice guy, huh? He gave a $1600 globe away. The better of the two globes is in a box under a desk in his pole barn. I took a tour of his collection a little over a year ago. He said, and I quote: " Do you remember the Indian globe I bought SO YOU COULDN'T HAVE IT? It's in that box under the desk". So much for being a nice guy! A friend of mine recently took a tour of that collection. I was telling him the story of the globe under the desk while we were looking at some pictures he shot when he was there. My friend started laughing.....and handed me a picture showing the box under the desk. I lost interest in looking at the rest of the pictures.
Do you go to the swap meets at Peotone? Shoot me an email sometime.
Bob

I wouldn't go so far as to say modern kids aren't interested in old things. Im 18, and when I am not working on a pump or some other old machine, Im riding my customized, restored 1952 Schwinn Tornado.

O.K. Lastgas...I probably shouldn't use up all the space here..I'll e-mail you sometime...I probably won't make Peotone this year...never had very good luck buyin' stuff in the Chicago area..but it is a worthwhile show from what I hear..never made it to that one yet. The Aumann auction over your way a year or so ago brought some kind of steep prices on common items. Must be the Capone or Luciano boys bidding--out of my league!! We have a good friend who married a firefighter in Kankakee and they are having their first baby this spring. She is a school teacher..

Talk later. Midway Oil

Hey Mike618b... Welcome Aboard!!!
I love seeing young people on board with this retro stuff... You are the future of this hobby and I want to thank you for recognizing and identifying more substance in this crazy world than video games and the plastic throw-aways of today.
Continue with your passion... and our hobby will live on thru people like you.

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Frank

Hey Frank,
Thanks for the welcome. I love old stuff because of it's quality and style. My friends didn't get it when I bought the tok. 39 home, and then thought I was just crazy when I got my M&S 80. They will get it when they see them done.
Thanks again,
Mike

Very interesting topic and responses, and have to agree with the various viewpoints. I have to say my interest in petrloiana was a by-product of my interest in classic cars. I had a 55 chev conv at the time in an old, rented, 1 car garage. Pretty drab inside. One day when I was down at my Dads farm and went to some acreage he was leasing for his cattle. That farm had been in these folks family for 3 generations and they never threw anything away, just tossed it in sheds or out in the field. To make a long story even longer, I stumbled across a nice Veedol sign and decided that it would look great on the wall behind my car. And that was all it took to turn this into a 20+ yr hobby...that and meeting the late Jeff Peterson. I'm not old enough to have ever (remember) seeing any of this stuff at stations.

As I look around at swap meets, I see lots of collectors and vendors who are young enough that they got their first drivers license after 1960. I see lots of 50s and 60s cars that are driven or admired by people born long after those cars were made. My own kids like the music I grew up with as much as, or more, than the music of their time.

I love to hear from those of you who have great memories of gas stations when you were a little kid. But for many collectors, no matter their age, it's just about cool stuff that they really like. Classic things that will stand the test of time. Like being appreciated from generation to generation. That is happening right now. Lots of collectors are very interested in stuff from before they were born. Look around on Shop Talk. It's not just old geezers and baby boomers. The younger collectors are in our midst, learning and collecting what they can afford.

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Jim "Oldgas" Potts
Your host and moderator

Sure, people collect what they are interested in, but will it be desirable in the future? Will computerized pumps ever be colectable. Probably not in my lifetime. Model A's and T's were hot at one time, but have lost some of their appeal lately. Part of it is because many of the people who drove them in the past are no longer with us. But they were also much different than todays cars. Anyone can drive a 60's or 70's musclecar however, and the perfomance won't get you killed on the freeway. The big variety of pumps in the past also plays a part in collecting. Look in Jack's book and see how much variety is out there. How many people make pumps today? They all look alike, unlike the works of art in the past.

I also like Railroads. 40 years ago, there were all sorts of different locomotives out there, on numerous, colorful railroads. Today, there are two locomotive builders, building generic products that all look the same. That, and the fact that there are only 4 or 5 major railroads left makes todays railroad scene pretty boring. 40 years from now, people will be going ho-hum to what is running today. The old stuff will always be more interesting.

Greg