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#613270 - Fri May 15 2015 12:25 PM Am I a fool or was I mislead?
BryceG Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
I recently bought a rather expensive sign ($2k) from a large auction house, and this was the exact description:

"Has chips in outer field and perimeter, sign has a light coat of clear over it, marked copyrighted 1900 & Balt Enl & Nov Co NY. Rated 7.9. Condition (Good). Size 30" D."

I got the sign home and started stripping the clear coat (as I have done with several signs because I'd rather have a dull sign than a clear-coated one). As I stripped the clear coat, the field of the sign began coming off exposing the bondo underneath.

At this point I realized the sign had been restored, so I took pictures and contacted the auction house. They said tough luck and that they will not do anything about it. They stand behind it that it was described correctly.

My question to the OG community: Am I a fool for trusting the description & taking it for what it said? Or is the auction house to blame for being purposefully misleading and/or negligent?

.
Who is to blame in this case?
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: Fri May 15 2015 12:24 PM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.
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#613273 - Fri May 15 2015 12:32 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: BryceG]
advertologist Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
Loc: So. Ca.
sounds like the auction house condones this type of activity - there description didn't disclose this &
a reputable auction house would make it right ... cool
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#613278 - Fri May 15 2015 12:48 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: advertologist]
Done4 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon May 07 2012
Loc: Michigan, Union Pier
One would think they should help. But I always call and ask questions if I'm not going to be there, I too have been burned, to increase my chances that I won't be had again I try to get as much info as possible. Unfortunately I don't trust to many auction houses or sellers when bidding on line.
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#613280 - Fri May 15 2015 12:59 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Done4]
K W FRITH Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
Another good argument for never buying a clear coated sign.
It was put on there for a reason--most likely to cover something up!
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#613283 - Fri May 15 2015 01:13 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: K W FRITH]
advertologist Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
Loc: So. Ca.
Originally Posted By: K W FRITH
Another good argument for never buying a clear coated sign.
It was put on there for a reason--most likely to cover something up!


totally agree, there's a lesson too be learned here ... cool
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RANDY

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#613287 - Fri May 15 2015 01:32 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: advertologist]
BryceG Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
Kevin, I agree, and the lesson has been learned.

However, I am still having a hard time not holding the auction company accountable to know what they are selling. If you don't know what is under the clear, then that should be stated. The wording really gets me fired up on this one, how they used the word 'lightly' clear coated. and how do you rate a sign a 7.9 without knowing what exists under the clear?

if that is the case, can I have a fully restored sign sold in similar fashion and describe it as 'sign has been cleared' and rate it a 9.8? I doubt it.

To me, its an example of the greed that exists in the auctioneer world today. We've all seen it, selling repros as original, purposefully misleading descriptions, and not taking accountability. If I sold this sign in the same manner with the same description on oldgas to a member, and the same thing happened... how would everyone expect me to respond? but for some reason people are willing to give an auction house a free pass. I've about had enough of it all.
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#613288 - Fri May 15 2015 01:39 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: advertologist]
Mike M. Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Jan 31 2012
Loc: Western, WI.
Agreed! If the word clear coat is used, it had better be in my hands for close inspection.

Like Bryce I have had a few that were clear coated to make them shine again that I have stripped and coated them in Howards Feed n wax and they look great so I see why you bid, but again you have to look close for more than just clearcoat.

It would be great to know who the auction company was that should of marked it as restored.
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Mike

Always Looking for any Pure Oil and Sunoco Items.

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#613290 - Fri May 15 2015 01:50 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: BryceG]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
You are making the assumption that, the auction house; somehow, knew what was under the paint. They only know what they are told when the item is consigned. Most times by a flipper that knows even less then the auctioneer about the sign or item they are consigning.

You, yourself had the sign in your possession and were unable to determine that it was more then a clear coated sign. You are for some reason expecting the auctioneer to have greater extra sensory powers then you.

Why should the auction house take it back after you have stripped the paint off of it? Let`s be real it`s one thing to return an item in the same condition as when you purchased it and another to monkey with it and then expect a full or partial refund.

Have you ever read the binding contractual agreement that you enter into on the back of the bidding cards or pay attention to the first statement made by an auctioneer at the start of an auction?

Auctioneers clearly state that you should examine the items and confirm for yourself what you are bidding on. As an on line bidder you choose to fore go that level of protection.

I'm not singling you out, or calling you out. I'm just shedding light on the other side of the coin. Sometimes we need to shoulder some of the responsibility for the situation we find ourselves a party to.




Edited by Dave's Garage (Fri May 15 2015 01:54 PM)
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#613293 - Fri May 15 2015 01:59 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Dave's Garage]
Cold Pizza Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue May 17 2005
Loc: Illinois
Is this the sign & auction co. in question Dave?
You said 2K,but they show it sold for $1500.00,so I'm not sure.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/36046687_hp-hood-and-sons-milk-single-sided-porcelain-sign

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#613296 - Fri May 15 2015 02:08 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Cold Pizza]
BryceG Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
Dave, I understand that side of it.

But to me, the auction house is one link in a supply chain. When an incident or defect occurs, you dont just point to some legal BS on a waiver, you follow that defect down the supply chain until you get to the responsible party.

If the auction house truly had no suspicions of it being restored, then the responsible party here was the consignor. To me, there should be the same disclaimers signed by the consignor as the buyer... they should be signing something that says "I hereby take responsibility that I have accurately & fully disclosed the current state of each item consigned."

Then when something like this happens, the AUCTION HOUSE can show some due diligence and the correct party gets nailed. Instead of always just passing the buck to the unsuspecting buyer.

Once again, I know there is plenty ways around this for the auction house, but its a matter of the integrity/word of your business and how much you care about that.
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Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

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#613302 - Fri May 15 2015 02:48 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: BryceG]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
I also see your side of this as well and the validity of some of the points you raise.

Now, it's my turn to make an assumption. I'm assuming that Rick has correctly identified the sign in question. If that is the case.

A compelling argument could be made that there was a level of deception possibly by who ever partially restored that sign. Fair to say that by doing so, when looking at the photo and the description of clear coated finish. One could possibly be tricked into a false sense of confidence that it has only been clear coated due to the other visible chips. Very few prudent buyers would even for a moment consider that only some partial restoration to areas with porcelain loss would have been done. The wear on the sign looks very honest and one would not assume that there may have been more underlying condition issues with it.

Needless to say, I don't think you acted foolishly. Anyone of us could have been exploited by those pictures and that description. However, I'm not fully convinced that the auction house has done something wrong because they could have also been deceived by the appearance of the sign.

Byrce, I agree with you that; A true measure of a good business is when they go above and beyond what can reasonably be expected of them.
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Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#613309 - Fri May 15 2015 03:43 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Dave's Garage]
Cold Pizza Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue May 17 2005
Loc: Illinois
Sorry guys,in my earlier reply,I meant to say that to Bryce,not Dave.
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#613312 - Fri May 15 2015 03:52 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Cold Pizza]
BryceG Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
that is the sign Rick... I was attempting to get unbias responses from everyone by not mentioning the company
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Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

See some of my collection & Items for sale...
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#613314 - Fri May 15 2015 04:00 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Cold Pizza]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
The auction house description is misleading, putting the onus on them. Simply stating a clear coat they should have said "possible restoration" in the description so the bidders would be forewarned to check the sign over.

A quick use of a black light & weak magnet should have shown restoration, and indeed if it is the one that Cold Pizza indicates it's an auction house that should know better. They should make it right.

Small auction houses that just sell an occasional sign you might begrudge for not knowing about restoration. But any auctioneer who makes it a regular part of their business should be held to a higher standard of accuracy in description(for regular sign auctions they should be held to the highest standard). It's up to the buying community to make the auctioneers responsible too, so reporting them to the BBB is a first step after initial contact with the auction advising them you are getting ready to call the BBB.

It's harder to establish a good reputation if word of mouth gets around the auction house refuses to make it right.
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#613320 - Fri May 15 2015 04:15 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: carolinaskies]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
...given that the sign appears to be unrestored, given the numerous chips, I'd say your assumption that the description was honest was understandable...they should make this right, and let the consignor eat it...
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