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Am I a fool or was I mislead? #613270
Fri May 15 2015 10:25 AM
Fri May 15 2015 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,311
Peoria, IL
BryceG Offline OP
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BryceG  Offline OP
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Peoria, IL
I recently bought a rather expensive sign ($2k) from a large auction house, and this was the exact description:

"Has chips in outer field and perimeter, sign has a light coat of clear over it, marked copyrighted 1900 & Balt Enl & Nov Co NY. Rated 7.9. Condition (Good). Size 30" D."

I got the sign home and started stripping the clear coat (as I have done with several signs because I'd rather have a dull sign than a clear-coated one). As I stripped the clear coat, the field of the sign began coming off exposing the bondo underneath.

At this point I realized the sign had been restored, so I took pictures and contacted the auction house. They said tough luck and that they will not do anything about it. They stand behind it that it was described correctly.

My question to the OG community: Am I a fool for trusting the description & taking it for what it said? Or is the auction house to blame for being purposefully misleading and/or negligent?

.

Who is to blame in this case?
single choice
Votes accepted starting: Fri May 15 2015 10:24 AM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: BryceG] #613273
Fri May 15 2015 10:32 AM
Fri May 15 2015 10:32 AM
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Posts: 12,163
So. Ca.
advertologist Offline
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sounds like the auction house condones this type of activity - there description didn't disclose this &
a reputable auction house would make it right ... cool


RANDY
Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: advertologist] #613278
Fri May 15 2015 10:48 AM
Fri May 15 2015 10:48 AM
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Michigan, Union Pier
Done4 Online content
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Done4  Online Content
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One would think they should help. But I always call and ask questions if I'm not going to be there, I too have been burned, to increase my chances that I won't be had again I try to get as much info as possible. Unfortunately I don't trust to many auction houses or sellers when bidding on line.


Have gas all the time
Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Done4] #613280
Fri May 15 2015 10:59 AM
Fri May 15 2015 10:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,751
Devils Lake, ND---USA
K W FRITH Online content
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K W FRITH  Online Content
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Another good argument for never buying a clear coated sign.
It was put on there for a reason--most likely to cover something up!


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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: K W FRITH] #613283
Fri May 15 2015 11:13 AM
Fri May 15 2015 11:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,163
So. Ca.
advertologist Offline
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Originally Posted By: K W FRITH
Another good argument for never buying a clear coated sign.
It was put on there for a reason--most likely to cover something up!


totally agree, there's a lesson too be learned here ... cool


RANDY
Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: advertologist] #613287
Fri May 15 2015 11:32 AM
Fri May 15 2015 11:32 AM
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Posts: 3,311
Peoria, IL
BryceG Offline OP
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BryceG  Offline OP
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Peoria, IL
Kevin, I agree, and the lesson has been learned.

However, I am still having a hard time not holding the auction company accountable to know what they are selling. If you don't know what is under the clear, then that should be stated. The wording really gets me fired up on this one, how they used the word 'lightly' clear coated. and how do you rate a sign a 7.9 without knowing what exists under the clear?

if that is the case, can I have a fully restored sign sold in similar fashion and describe it as 'sign has been cleared' and rate it a 9.8? I doubt it.

To me, its an example of the greed that exists in the auctioneer world today. We've all seen it, selling repros as original, purposefully misleading descriptions, and not taking accountability. If I sold this sign in the same manner with the same description on oldgas to a member, and the same thing happened... how would everyone expect me to respond? but for some reason people are willing to give an auction house a free pass. I've about had enough of it all.


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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: advertologist] #613288
Fri May 15 2015 11:39 AM
Fri May 15 2015 11:39 AM
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Western, WI.
Mike M. Offline
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Agreed! If the word clear coat is used, it had better be in my hands for close inspection.

Like Bryce I have had a few that were clear coated to make them shine again that I have stripped and coated them in Howards Feed n wax and they look great so I see why you bid, but again you have to look close for more than just clearcoat.

It would be great to know who the auction company was that should of marked it as restored.


Thanks
Mike

Always Looking for any Pure Oil and Sunoco Items.
Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: BryceG] #613290
Fri May 15 2015 11:50 AM
Fri May 15 2015 11:50 AM
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Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Dave's Garage Offline
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You are making the assumption that, the auction house; somehow, knew what was under the paint. They only know what they are told when the item is consigned. Most times by a flipper that knows even less then the auctioneer about the sign or item they are consigning.

You, yourself had the sign in your possession and were unable to determine that it was more then a clear coated sign. You are for some reason expecting the auctioneer to have greater extra sensory powers then you.

Why should the auction house take it back after you have stripped the paint off of it? Let`s be real it`s one thing to return an item in the same condition as when you purchased it and another to monkey with it and then expect a full or partial refund.

Have you ever read the binding contractual agreement that you enter into on the back of the bidding cards or pay attention to the first statement made by an auctioneer at the start of an auction?

Auctioneers clearly state that you should examine the items and confirm for yourself what you are bidding on. As an on line bidder you choose to fore go that level of protection.

I'm not singling you out, or calling you out. I'm just shedding light on the other side of the coin. Sometimes we need to shoulder some of the responsibility for the situation we find ourselves a party to.



Last edited by Dave's Garage; Fri May 15 2015 11:54 AM.

Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Dave's Garage] #613293
Fri May 15 2015 11:59 AM
Fri May 15 2015 11:59 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,187
Illinois
Cold Pizza Online content
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Illinois
Is this the sign & auction co. in question Dave?
You said 2K,but they show it sold for $1500.00,so I'm not sure.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/36046687_hp-hood-and-sons-milk-single-sided-porcelain-sign

Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Cold Pizza] #613296
Fri May 15 2015 12:08 PM
Fri May 15 2015 12:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,311
Peoria, IL
BryceG Offline OP
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BryceG  Offline OP
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Peoria, IL
Dave, I understand that side of it.

But to me, the auction house is one link in a supply chain. When an incident or defect occurs, you dont just point to some legal BS on a waiver, you follow that defect down the supply chain until you get to the responsible party.

If the auction house truly had no suspicions of it being restored, then the responsible party here was the consignor. To me, there should be the same disclaimers signed by the consignor as the buyer... they should be signing something that says "I hereby take responsibility that I have accurately & fully disclosed the current state of each item consigned."

Then when something like this happens, the AUCTION HOUSE can show some due diligence and the correct party gets nailed. Instead of always just passing the buck to the unsuspecting buyer.

Once again, I know there is plenty ways around this for the auction house, but its a matter of the integrity/word of your business and how much you care about that.


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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: BryceG] #613302
Fri May 15 2015 12:48 PM
Fri May 15 2015 12:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,818
Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Dave's Garage Offline
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I also see your side of this as well and the validity of some of the points you raise.

Now, it's my turn to make an assumption. I'm assuming that Rick has correctly identified the sign in question. If that is the case.

A compelling argument could be made that there was a level of deception possibly by who ever partially restored that sign. Fair to say that by doing so, when looking at the photo and the description of clear coated finish. One could possibly be tricked into a false sense of confidence that it has only been clear coated due to the other visible chips. Very few prudent buyers would even for a moment consider that only some partial restoration to areas with porcelain loss would have been done. The wear on the sign looks very honest and one would not assume that there may have been more underlying condition issues with it.

Needless to say, I don't think you acted foolishly. Anyone of us could have been exploited by those pictures and that description. However, I'm not fully convinced that the auction house has done something wrong because they could have also been deceived by the appearance of the sign.

Byrce, I agree with you that; A true measure of a good business is when they go above and beyond what can reasonably be expected of them.


Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Dave's Garage] #613309
Fri May 15 2015 01:43 PM
Fri May 15 2015 01:43 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,187
Illinois
Cold Pizza Online content
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Sorry guys,in my earlier reply,I meant to say that to Bryce,not Dave.


Collecting Vintage Sunoco
Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Cold Pizza] #613312
Fri May 15 2015 01:52 PM
Fri May 15 2015 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,311
Peoria, IL
BryceG Offline OP
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BryceG  Offline OP
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Peoria, IL
that is the sign Rick... I was attempting to get unbias responses from everyone by not mentioning the company


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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Cold Pizza] #613314
Fri May 15 2015 02:00 PM
Fri May 15 2015 02:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,648
Upstate SC, USA
carolinaskies Offline
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The auction house description is misleading, putting the onus on them. Simply stating a clear coat they should have said "possible restoration" in the description so the bidders would be forewarned to check the sign over.

A quick use of a black light & weak magnet should have shown restoration, and indeed if it is the one that Cold Pizza indicates it's an auction house that should know better. They should make it right.

Small auction houses that just sell an occasional sign you might begrudge for not knowing about restoration. But any auctioneer who makes it a regular part of their business should be held to a higher standard of accuracy in description(for regular sign auctions they should be held to the highest standard). It's up to the buying community to make the auctioneers responsible too, so reporting them to the BBB is a first step after initial contact with the auction advising them you are getting ready to call the BBB.

It's harder to establish a good reputation if word of mouth gets around the auction house refuses to make it right.


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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: carolinaskies] #613320
Fri May 15 2015 02:15 PM
Fri May 15 2015 02:15 PM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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...given that the sign appears to be unrestored, given the numerous chips, I'd say your assumption that the description was honest was understandable...they should make this right, and let the consignor eat it...


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