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#614095 - Wed May 20 2015 11:10 AM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: tomzcollectiblez]
Done4 Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon May 07 2012
Loc: Michigan, Union Pier
What Tom said.
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Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#614104 - Wed May 20 2015 12:02 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Done4]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
...so, if a consignor lies/omits information when consigning with an auction house, is the auction house left holding the bag? Did the auction house 'restore' that sign? I'm thinking the consignor did...
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#614113 - Wed May 20 2015 12:38 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: tomzcollectiblez]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
Originally Posted By: tomzcollectiblez
NEVER have I ever heard of anyone trying to remove clear coating from a sign


really? I get signs often that are cleared to help display the sign with better gloss. seems odd you have never heard of someone clear coating a sign to try and give it a more glossy look.

I should have better articulated the scenario... the sign was not 'restored'... it was filled with bondo and then colored black. Me personally, i did not know better... and I realize that. But a industry leader in sign identification should have known that the cows face was horribly incorrect, imo.

i would weigh in with more thoughts and with pictures, but it appears everyone is wanting to focus on the topic of returning the sign, rather than what I intended the discussion to be... which was, who is being misleading? why cant auction houses hold consignors accountable? why use the term 'lightly' clear coated? how can you rate a sign a 7.9 if you dont know whats underneath? etc.

I now realize that I took a leap of faith that I shouldn't have. and its unfortunate that all the people that have PM'd me with various opinions related to this, will not speak up.
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#614122 - Wed May 20 2015 02:14 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: BryceG]
dalin Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Mar 07 2012
Loc: North Dakota
over 2000 views but surprisingly only 101 people voted!

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#614124 - Wed May 20 2015 02:23 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: dalin]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: dalin
over 2000 views but surprisingly only 101 people voted!


...and 2/3 of those who voted, lay the blame with the auction house...


Edited by gulfiend! (Wed May 20 2015 02:24 PM)
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#614130 - Wed May 20 2015 02:38 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: dalin]
Wes Hague Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Aug 08 2007
Loc: canada
I voted and laid blame to the buyer and if you read the fine print that's what the rules in auction bidding are, online or in person.. real simple
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#614139 - Wed May 20 2015 03:21 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Wes Hague]
powerlube Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Mar 26 2006
Loc: Parker, CO
I will never buy a sign from that company unless they give a full refund. Dan Matthews always offered this. If this company will not back up there sales with a guarantee they are as good as dead to me no matter what they sell.

Sorry for the tough lesson Bryce. To bad for morphys as I think MANY buyers will continue to back away and that sellers will also be switching to smaller auctioneers then Morphys.
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#614147 - Wed May 20 2015 04:50 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: powerlube]
Oldgas Offline
Moderator

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Loc: South of St. Louis, MO USA
Originally Posted By: dalin
over 2000 views but surprisingly only 101 people voted!


I think if more choices would have been listed in the poll, there would probably been more votes.

The existing choices:

"Who is to blame in this case?
the Buyer: they were informed adequetly
the Auction house: they were misleading and/or negligent"

Additional choices could have been:

the Consignor: someone knew that the sign had work done on it
Shared blame: the consignor, auctioneer and buyer
Don't know: ?

I probably would have voted for "shared blame" because the consignor probably knew the issues, the auctioneer tried to minimize the issue with the "lightly cleared" wording and the buyer knew the clear coat was a risky red flag.

I, as well as most collectors, have taken a leap of faith that an item would clean up, that an item would be original or that everything would turn out OK dealing with a questionable seller. Most will try to balance the risk with paying a price that reflects the possibility of a bad deal. Sometimes you throw caution to the wind to get what you really want and you live with the outcome if there is no pre-established return policy.

I have a few items that I charge off to a learning experience. Leaps of faith don't always work out in vintage collectibles.
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#614151 - Wed May 20 2015 05:36 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Oldgas]
Nicole Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Dec 09 2010
Loc: Maryland
Dalin,

I didn't vote as there wasn't a 'don't know' option. I also have been checking back with this thread a number of times as I imagine others were, so that ups the views.

In my industry, some people like the look of oil paintings varnished and others don't. Varnished it does give the colors, even freshly painted, a deeper look, but paintings show a lot better in galleries when they are not glazed, as the glare with the lighting can effect the views. Even when I enter the triennial competition at our National Portrait Gallery in downtown D.C. they ask the paintings not be varnished.

The only paintings I tend to varnish are the historic ones, especially with the really dark backgrounds. Again, it adds depth.

So while it may be the case here, there may be some folks buying signs who like the shiny clear coat look (DB would have called them decorators, no doubt) , making the colors look better--after all many restored pumps have a layer of clear coat on top making them all shiny looking (reflecting those lit globes and neon signs) and they have new-not faded paint.

So for the poll, put me down for an unofficial, don't know. And I would add that a really good appraiser at any action house might be worth their weight in gold to catch stuff like this. This kind of thing only hurts the action house in the long run.


Edited by Nicole (Wed May 20 2015 05:39 PM)

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#614165 - Wed May 20 2015 06:04 PM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: Oldgas]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
yeah, I really wish I would have added a couple more options...

I also do believe all parties share the blame in some form, and I think you put it into words well Jim. but something tells me the other parties involved would not be willing to admit to that. and that's what frustrates me... the accountability.
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Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

See some of my collection & Items for sale...
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#614239 - Thu May 21 2015 08:52 AM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: BryceG]
Done4 Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon May 07 2012
Loc: Michigan, Union Pier
I'm still very curious as to why you have not shown the sign in it's present condition. This would have helped determine the degree of restoration, we do have the before image.
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#614246 - Thu May 21 2015 09:27 AM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: BryceG]
tomzcollectiblez Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Feb 26 2006
Loc: La Porte, In
Originally Posted By: BryceG
Originally Posted By: tomzcollectiblez
NEVER have I ever heard of anyone trying to remove clear coating from a sign


really? I get signs often that are cleared to help display the sign with better gloss. seems odd you have never heard of someone clear coating a sign to try and give it a more glossy look.


Bryce, Read what I said and YOU quoted....

Let me say It AGAIN since you obviously got it backwards LOL

NEVER have I ever heard of anyone trying to remove clear coating from a sign


I Just dont understand how you can admittingly DESTROY a signs' condition and then DEMAND your money back???
I wish EVERYONE would VOTE!!!!! The majority would be different in my opinion smile

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#614256 - Thu May 21 2015 09:52 AM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: tomzcollectiblez]
johninlongview Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Dec 28 2009
Loc: Longview, Texas
You got a bad deal Bryce, but I do think that both parties are to blame. ( you and the guy that brought it to the auction house )

I've known some used car dealers and they don't look over cars in detail purposely because when they sell you a car, it's as is where is and if they don't look at it closely then they can somehow have a clear conscience to sell it someone to make a profit without disclosing all of the flaws.

I'm sorry about your loss. That's a lot of money to just throw away; but a very good lesson that we can all learn from.
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#614269 - Thu May 21 2015 10:56 AM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: johninlongview]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
there was a couple reasons why I wasn't sharing the pictures, one because it is non-petro, and two because I was gearing the discussion towards the 'situation' and not the sign specifically.

but here it is:

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Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

See some of my collection & Items for sale...
www.OnceAlwaysPetro.com

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#614271 - Thu May 21 2015 11:05 AM Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead? [Re: BryceG]
Done4 Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon May 07 2012
Loc: Michigan, Union Pier
Thanks Bryce, now I understand your anger. For what it is worth, I've been collecting a very long time and when I do buy a sign that is clear coated that is the way it stays for this very reason. Feel your pain man.
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