Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Aumann Auctions problems

Seth,
All I can say is Aumann's didn't appear to have any trouble booking auctions before they started using a bp.
I asked Dan a few years ago why they switched to bp auctions and he said "because that's what our competitors do". I would think they would rather be leaders than followers, but thats their business.
As much as I hate the bp, I don't think it makes all that much difference to many buyers. When the desireable items are on the block people with deep pockets are going to step up and pay crazy prices, bp or not.
Quite frankly as a buyer I don't care what a seller's expenses are. When I go to one of Aumann's auctions (other than at Peotone) I'm looking a considerable expense myself. Gas, food, and hotel costs add up. Multiply that by the number of bidders that attend an auction and you'll see what it costs the buyers.
As for why there are so many petro auctions...I believe its a byproduct of the increasing age of those in the hobby.

I have been attending auctions in my state for 30 years and have had 4 auctions of my own with 3 different auctioneers. Have come to the conclusion that the great majority of auctioneers are to one extent or another somewhat on the "dishonest" side. I have not attended any purely petrolania auctions, so am not able to judge in that area. In my area the majority of auctioneers will bid you up when nobody is actually bidding against you, a person has to be careful in bidding to not be taken by that particular practice...Could go on and on with other things they pull, I still enjoy going to auctions, just have to careful you don"t get hosed. Don

We can agree to disagree about the number of auctions, I myself can never remember there being at least one big petro auction a month, every month for years, like it is now. I'm not trying to get you to care about the expense of putting together an auction at all, I'm just trying to explain why things are the way they are as far as buyer's premiums are concerned. We had one auction (the first year) with no buyer's premium and we got killed on the promotion expenses. That's not an opinion, it's fact. It was like having a gas show and not charging booth rent. I've said a hundred times and I'll say it again, if the market would't bear a buyer's premium I would cease to have an auction. Like I said earlier, the globes I had up for sale in this year's sale were awesome, anybody that was there or online would vouch for that. It was truly a rare opportunity for all involved. And I guarantee, that if this guy would've had to pay 25%-30%, he would've sold them to one guy with deep pockets and a whole bunch of people would've been deprived of the opportunity to buy just one or two globes that they had been looking for. I was talking to a BIG dealer of this stuff at Peotone, a guy who makes a tremendous living buying and selling petro everyday. He put it the best way that I can remember. He said "I wish there were no buyer's premiums, but going to these auctions is like shooting fish in a barrel...., how else can I get the opportunity to buy this much nice stuff in one day?"

I love a good discussion and I guess I started one. First the two signs I'm missing are from Rex's auction. So it's been that long. Second Rex, I think you should reimburse me (just kidding). I'm surprised that Dan or Kurt don't "have the time" to address these concerns themselves. Finally I don't like paying a buyers fee either but have been paying buyers fees for the past 20 years at all kinds of auctions and it started out at 5% and has gone to 10%. I think it's fair and the only way the auction company can cover their costs. Just think, if they didn't put on these auctions what would we all be doing.
ray

I bought two globes from Rex's sale via Internet bidding, and it went well. I received the globes on the Friday after the sale, which shocked me that they came that fast. Both globes arrived in perfect shape.

Last fall's Peotone sale didn't fare as well. But it was a glitch on Proxibid's end, not Aumann's fault. That's the chance you take w/ high technology I guess.

I've bought a number of items from Aumann's and have always been treated well. No complaints.

As a buyer, of course I too don't take to the B.P. either. If an item starts getting too high during the bidding, I walk. Done it many times!! Unfortunately, with our collectibles getting so expensive, I'll be doing a lot of walking in the future!! Going to turn my attention back towards something else I'm afraid. Spending two grand a pop on a globe is hard to justify to the wife----

As an afterthought to this...I bought a globe from John O'Hern 'globesandsigns.com' over the Christmas holidays, and you talk about a guy that goes out of his way to help!! Of course I've known the family for many years, his dad and I were good friends. John is as honest as the day is long and will treat you right!! No 'buyer's premium' or such. No games played here. Just old fashioned good business dealings.

Give him a holler. You'll save time and money not dealing w/ the auction houses...

I will second that...John O'Hern & his partner in crime, Ron Thomas, are two of the coolest guys in the hobby. We nearly were run out of the Country Inn lobby in Manteno, IL @ about 1 A.M. last weekend!

There are a lot of things I like about Aumann, at least they are knowledgable and I really like the fact that you can go to there web site and do a searches for results on past Auctions. And for now at least, they are the best in the business when it comes to petroleum collectibles.

However, I agree, they are starting to loose there edge. My complaint was the $46.00 shipping charge for a lubster sign, which left me feeling gouged. For that price, you would expect overnight shipping, not overmonth shipping. I can even understand them getting behind in their shipments, but a little email giving the ETA would be nice.

I remember another Auctions House located in Pennsylvania a few years back. People had a lot of complaints about the way they were doing business. The next thing you know Win Maynard starts up Autopia and provides superior service and takes away much of there business. Hopefully someone will step up and give them a run for their money. Competion is a wonderful thing.

Markmck:

Oh you looked at your shipping bill too huh ? What a joke.. 10 minutes and $2.00 worth of material.

Bob: If ups is so bad a shipper, how come aumann's still uses them???

Rex and Nita: I'm real sorry to hear about your auction and the way it was run. Everything you put in your post are things i believe in strongly. You guys have every reason to post your feelings.

Doug



j

Doug,
I don't know why they still use UPS. If I had to guess I'd say price.

Its very unfortunate that Rex and Nita's auction was a bad experience for them. Rex talked to me off and on for nearly two years about his auction. While it wasn't a "train wreck", it certainly wasn't what he had envisioned either.

Hey Seth are most of the guys that attend your auction return customers?People on oldgas?Friends of people that have attended your auctions before?Customers of your business?What I am getting at is why do you spend so much money on advertising?Most people know when the auction is from the internet or other collectors,just a question here.I know Seth spends good money on adv.I seen flyers everywhere but is it worth it?I know the crowds are getting better but is it from people telling another person or seeing your flyer?Seems word of mouth on your good auctions is your key.I think more auctions are more plentiful because investment collectors are retiring and selling out,prices are high for quality items,and its better than money in the bank!my2cents
John Ohern is a top notch guy,we have got to scrimmage through old houses and barns together and for a young guy he is very knowledgable and fun to deal with,hes my go to guy for sure when I am looking for something.

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In a given year, about 2/3 of the people that come to our auction have been there in the past, the other 1/3 are new. Generally, 1/2 the internet has participated in the past, and the other 1/2 is new. There is no way to quantify, how much of the new portion of the crowd is due to advertising. I think I see where you are going with this, like maybe at some point could a person cut back on ads and drop the commission/bp rates. Let me ask you this: If it was your $100K collection on the line, would you want me to scrimp on ads hoping word-of-mouth was going to draw a big crowd for you? I advertised more this year than ever before, and I had the best consignments, the best crowd, the largest internet crowd, and the highest gross $ that I've ever had. I'm not real sure I'll be toying with that anytime soon.
Some of the biggest spenders I had this year wouldn't know oldgas.com or Iowa Gas or a Wayne 60 if it slapped them in the face. In other words, advertising brings in new money year-in, year-out.

Also, I agree that the high number of auctions is related to people wanting to lock in the appreciation of their collection, BUT, if they had to pay 30% commission, they wouldn't be selling them at auction, I can assure you. I hear WAY too much fussing at 13% (that's with me paying the credit card 3%, not the buyer or seller) to believe I could ever convince someone to go for 25-30%.

Maybe I missed it again, Does anyone know what Aumann charges for seller fees?

We are lucky here in that we have two honest reputible auction houses locally.

As a rule of thumb if someone cosigns what is sure to be a big interest/dollar item they will lower their commisson consideribly because these are the items that bring the people in and are usually the "center piece" of a particular auction.

I agree, no one wants to pay 20-30 percent to sell a high dollar item. 10-15% on high dollar items is more in line. ex: If a tractor sells for $7000 and the seller is charged 15% the auctioneer is still grossing $1050 on that one item from the seller plus $700 from the buyer. Not bad money. And on even bigger items, for example, I think Barrett-Jackson charges seller around 8%.

Some auctioneers have also told me this fee is extremely negotible.

When I was negotiating the price of my new truck a couple of years ago the salesman said after one of my offers that, "Gee, I have to eat to, your taking food out of my mouth." My reply was, "Well, you don't have to eat steak every night do you?"

Thanks for your reply Seth.I was just trying to clear up some questions in thought.Steve

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Aumanns used to use another online auction service then switched over to proxibid. Does anyone know why? The other Auction site listed Aumanns as co-owners or some important title at one time.