Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion WAYNE GREEK (ROMAN) PUMPS

Looking down the number of posts here at almost 2 am (mid-west) in the morning there are two posts about these pumps. I thought they were rare, the ultimate of any collection, what we would buy instead of sending our children to college, what we would sell everything we have to own one.

Do I need to adjust the values I have in my gas pump book?

Nothing serious, but we need to discuss something, things are getting a little dull here on OG.

Jack Sim

Jack...supply and demand. Romans are not that terribly "rare" of a pump, by comparison with others where there are only a handful (or one or two) known. I've had 7 myself. But the demand is through the roof...everyone wants them and they command big bucks. I'm not sure where you've priced them in your new book but a good unrestored one is certainly in the 14k territory. That's my take, anyway.

petropumps,

As soon as I saw your post I went to the book. I have about 6 pictures, and I put $18,000 on each of them.

Like you stated, supply and demand.

Jack Sim

That's the problem with posting prices. Just like Ebay. If the pumps were bringing $14,000 to $15,000 unrestored and the book comes out at $18,000 the prices automatically jumps to $18,000+.
JMO but I think a reference book should either have a variable like $14,000 to $18,000 or be at the low end. Even if you post $14,000 to $18,000 people selling will only see the $18,000.
When I talk to people about the condition of the pump they are selling it is always in "great condition" or it is "in good condition for it's age". They seldom are as good as they envision them. Jack maybe you have an explanation in the book for the pricing, but let's face it, CONDITION IS EVERYTHING. I think a Roman in "original barn fresh condition" is one price, where one with a bunch of reproduction parts and a "hole cut in the side is another.
Again JMO.

John is right on! Rarely is a pump ever in as good a condition as described. When I ask sellers about solid, original condition, no parts missing, original paint pumps----they rarely know what I mean by that terminology. It seems simple to me, but everyone's perception of condition seems to differ. But everyone can agree on what 18K amounts to. It suddenly seems to transfer to every pump in that category.

In the introduction of the book, there is a section titled valuing the equipment. The first sentence reads "The values put on the equipment assumes it is in near 100 percent un-restored condition, but without any globe that might be shown."

This means that a pump that is valued in the book is a really nice original example. For example, did anybody see the Wayne 492 that sold at Mecum this spring? That is the condition of a pump that is priced in the book. FWIW, the price of 18k is low for a high caliber original 492, IMO.

I don't question the $18,000 in the book. The last Roman I bought I paid $9500 for. That was a LONG time ago. 5 maybe 6 years ago. I wish I could buy one with missing parts for that now.

I guess this is a question that will NEVER be answered. I to have stepped up at an auction and gone over my original "high end bid" I had in my mind. Bottom line is again, "condition is EVERYTHING".
Don't get me wrong I am glad Jack has done the books in the past and is doing another one. I can't imagine trying to do that. I just hope you get properly compensated this time Jack.
Price the book where you can make money for all your work.

I constantly get request for a value of a pump. I don't ask it, but the first thing that comes into my mind is "What does the other side look like?"
Actually what I am saying is that I cannot put a value on anything I cannot touch.

And John, you are very correct about who makes money on these books. On the first two books I made about $30,000 each. But before I even wrote one book I spent about $40,000 buying literature, then each book took about a year each to write. Then it took about eight years each for all the books to sell out. As I always said, I could have made more money being a greater at Walmart, "Welcome to Walmart" all day. Anyone interested in making $140,000 minimum on a $55,000 investment?

Jack Sim

Jack, given the amount of research you put into the books and then the amount of information your books provide, if they were priced at $49.95 I believe they would still be a bargain. Look at what happens to the price when they go out of print. I have always had three of each edition. One in my office, one in the shop and one in my truck. If you are serious about gas pumps, collecting, buying or selling, I don't know why you would not own one or more. They have always been the bible of the pump hobby.
The same goes for Scott's book's and CD's. If you buy globes, why wouldn't you own the best information source out there????

Hopefully if the book is being offered in a CD form, more of the cost per book will go straight to you.

The important reference books I used and I recommended my landscape and lawn care students purchase for id of insect and disease pests of turf and landscape went for over $80 each. And if you were good or wanted to be good at your job you had one or both on your shelf in your office.

One thing some of us are missing is that the pump itself is BEAUTIFUL IN MOST PEOPLES EYES. Whether or not other pumps are rarer or what ever, you can't get away from the architectural design and look of this GAS PUMP.

It is tough to put a price on this as one would like a chance to get this architectural piece, and yes money is a factor. Completeness with original parts are a high factor also.

Prices also depend on who is there to look at it, what area of the country it is in, and when it is being offered, and by whom.

All play into the cost and want factor. The one that sold at Mecum by first look was a good pump, but if you again factor in the possible 20% buyers premium, then what ?

Private sales with the way the buyer wants it always seem to bring more money. Unrestored complete so that someone can do what they want also drawers the money to be saved by not having to put more out to make it whole.

Thoughts ?

The big auctions like Mecum and Barrett-Jackson have never been an indicator to me. Many of those people are trying to impress their friends with their buys and know nothing of what they are buying. I have seen reproduction Red Crowns sell for $750. And Tokheim 850's with no clock, the wrong nozzle and plastic lenses and Philips head screws holding it together sell for $9000. Or a restored regular Wayne 505 for $4000......PLUS the fees.
I think the best gauge is on here. Knowledgeable people set the real market prices.
I think it's harder for people like me to grasp the prices sky rocketing. Years ago I was buying a Wayne 60 in great shape for $500 and MS 80's for $150 - $200. But then I knew a guy that never would pay over $50 - $100. Many of them were free. He sold 150 pumps to a friend of mine for $10,000 just to get rid of them. I was going to buy them but didn't know at the time where I would put them. Wayne 60's, Bennett 150s, Wayne 40's and MS 80s etc.
Things sure have changed.

The Mecum/Barret crowd is more after the restored pumps. I know who bought the Wayne 60-s, and the Wayne 71 at the Mecum sale. I know who was the back up bidder on the Wayne 50, I dont know who was bidding on the Wayne 492. All four of those pumps were pretty good original examples and brought good money because of their condition and the look they had. The premium on that sale was 20 percent, plus 7 percent sales tax.

Old Racer,

I always suggested that a person should buy three copies of my book, one for the office, one for the truck and one for the bathroom.

Jack