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Visine Gets the Red Out! #687443
Thu May 25 2017 04:01 PM
Thu May 25 2017 04:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
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MICHIGAN
Steven C. Offline OP
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Steven C.  Offline OP
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So I recently had a conversation/debate with a fellow Oldgasser. Names will remain anonymous to protect the innocent. And his embarrassment when I"m proven correct. Well, hopefully anyway.
So did Pennzoil actually make signs without red bells? Maybe in between the older brown bell era and the later red bell era?
Or, as I had suggested, was the red was just gone due to sun damage?
I would love to see solid proof of this. A missing link type sign for example, that is half red and half clear, showing proof of fading.
Anyway, looking for solid proof if it's out there. A PORCELAIN sign (most Pennzoil signs are painted/printed) with a clear bell would also suffice.
Anyone have a clear sign with a date?

00r0r_i01F6dThtxO_1200x900.jpg
Last edited by Steven C.; Thu May 25 2017 04:02 PM.

Steve Coppens
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Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.] #687446
Thu May 25 2017 04:26 PM
Thu May 25 2017 04:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 441
San Bernardino , Cal. USA
ironheadtom Offline
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San Bernardino , Cal. USA
I had one that looked just like that. Painted. The red on mine was obviously faded.


Last edited by ironheadtom; Thu May 25 2017 04:27 PM.
Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: ironheadtom] #687452
Thu May 25 2017 05:45 PM
Thu May 25 2017 05:45 PM
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Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
JimT Offline
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That sign you posted is enamel ,not porcelain ,Steve. I'm pretty sure its just faded.

Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.] #687453
Thu May 25 2017 06:37 PM
Thu May 25 2017 06:37 PM
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Western, WI.
Mike M. Online content
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Western, WI.
I've never seen one without the colored bell but I have seen them faded like that but still part of the color on the bell 🔔


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Mike

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Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.] #687468
Fri May 26 2017 04:48 AM
Fri May 26 2017 04:48 AM
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Carthage, IN USA
tbuckles Offline
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Carthage, IN USA
It seems that the reds fades worse than other colors. Never seen that sign without the red.


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Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.] #688422
Mon Jun 12 2017 01:12 AM
Mon Jun 12 2017 01:12 AM
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Steven C. Offline OP
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Steven C.  Offline OP
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So my friends and I are still constructively debating/researching this. And they have found several examples without any red. And they all seem to be dated in the late 40's.
I was starting to think maybe there was a period during or just after the war that some signage was made without the red. Then this morning I found this on ebay. 1948 Pennzoil vertical which always has red shadowing on all the letters. Here is a great example of one that maybe was under an overhang, so the top of the sign didn't get as much sun and some of the red is retained. But amazingly the red is completely gone from the rest of the lettering. As if it was never there!!

penn.jpgpenn2.jpg
Last edited by Steven C.; Mon Jun 12 2017 06:46 AM.

Steve Coppens
Always interested in Sunoco items!
Really want a Sunoco National pump ad glass!!
Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.] #688496
Mon Jun 12 2017 07:46 PM
Mon Jun 12 2017 07:46 PM
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Upstate SC, USA
carolinaskies Offline
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Red pigment takes in more high energy particles from UV rays and breaks down quicker. That's the scientific explanation. This is especially a problem with organic pigments which were the prevalent available until the mid 1950s. Even then man-made pigments are still susceptible if not protected by clear coats that have UV rejection compounds.

BTW, early Pennzoil had green bells. I had a great sign a couple of years ago that dated to around 1919-1920 with the green bell.


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Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.] #688534
Tue Jun 13 2017 03:46 PM
Tue Jun 13 2017 03:46 PM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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...Steve, on the sign you posted above, the red has faded...it was there at one time...


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Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: gulfiend!] #688546
Tue Jun 13 2017 05:36 PM
Tue Jun 13 2017 05:36 PM
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Steven C. Offline OP
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Steven C.  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By gulfiend!
...Steve, on the sign you posted above, the red has faded...it was there at one time...


I realize. That is exactly my point. This sign is proof of just how severe the fading can be.


Steve Coppens
Always interested in Sunoco items!
Really want a Sunoco National pump ad glass!!
Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.] #689050
Thu Jun 22 2017 10:56 PM
Thu Jun 22 2017 10:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 57
central coast California
chevy350 Offline
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chevy350  Offline
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central coast California
I was wondering this myself. My sign has no dating on it and there is NO sign of red in the bell on either side. If I remember correctly the yellow in the bell is slightly a richer yellow but barely noticeable. Boy were the walls empty then...

IMG_20170312_120004189.jpg
Last edited by chevy350; Thu Jun 22 2017 10:57 PM.

Vintage car restorer/collector with a love for all things old.. Too many toys never enough room.
Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.] #696877
Tue Oct 17 2017 01:36 AM
Tue Oct 17 2017 01:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,347
MICHIGAN
Steven C. Offline OP
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Steven C.  Offline OP
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MICHIGAN
Here is a great example of a sign that was once red with only a hint remaining. The red has simply faded away.
I don't believe there ever were signs made with clear bells. And any such sign is simply a faded sign.

surb sign faded bell (2).jpgsurb sign faded bell (3).jpg

Steve Coppens
Always interested in Sunoco items!
Really want a Sunoco National pump ad glass!!

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