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#690896 - Thu Jul 20 2017 11:32 PM Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs?
Mike M. Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Jan 31 2012
Loc: Western, WI.
So I got my book for the Rich Penn Auction and I notice a number of "Contemporary" (new word for repop? LOL) signs scattered through out the auction. This seems a bit odd that an auction running along side a big gas show is selling signs that we all dislike and do nothing but hurt our hobby!

Anybody else have any thoughts about this?
_________________________
Thanks
Mike

Always Looking for any Pure Oil and Sunoco Items.

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#690904 - Fri Jul 21 2017 05:02 AM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
Old Racer Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Mar 14 2006
Loc: Pickett, WI USA
Mike I agree. That is why I have pretty much stop buying signs.
"Contemporary" signs have ben around for years, but it was pretty much always easy to tell when you are touching them. the fakes have gotten MUCH better.
A customer of mine just bout an ORIGINAL pump sign on Ebay. He gave it to me to put on his pump and it was a fake. Luckily he was able to return it through Ebay and PayPal and get his money back. You can't do that through an on line auction.
I think I will stick with pumps.
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#690906 - Fri Jul 21 2017 06:35 AM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
The sad part is the Auctioneer was asked about it and he defended the use of these tricky words to confuse the uneducated. Its all about the money.
There is only 1 reason NOT to call a fantasy a fantasy, or a repro a repro
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"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#690913 - Fri Jul 21 2017 09:34 AM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
They are also selling a repo Mack Bulldog sign and describing it as a mint original. I have let Ron Hoyt know... hopefully they pull it.

here's how to tell if anyone wants to know... https://oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=519573


Attachments
mack_fake.jpg

Description: fake Mack Bulldog sign


_________________________
Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

See some of my collection & Items for sale...
www.OnceAlwaysPetro.com

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#690918 - Fri Jul 21 2017 11:38 AM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
Rabbitman Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Dec 09 2010
Loc: Missouri,USA
I don't understand why they even want to go there at this particular venue. Iowa has always been where all the purists congregate and it's not like there is a shortage of real stuff to put in the auction. There have been more people selling collections and wanting to downsize through auctions in the last couple of years than we have seen maybe ever. Prices are at an all time high, so much so that I think this is the answer to my own question. A lot of attendees to these auctions just can't afford to buy anything original.But why pepper in junk just to make a few non-collectors feel important by buying a piece at the auction? Besides, you know there will be a few newbies that actually want to learn and collect real pieces that will get caught up in the frenzy and buy one of these "contemporary" pieces by mistake. It's just the nature of an auction. I buy very few signs because it is so hard to know what you're getting and when you do find a nice piece.....well, I'm just too cheap to pay the price anymore.....GB

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#690922 - Fri Jul 21 2017 12:01 PM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
Cold Pizza Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue May 17 2005
Loc: Illinois
To me,Iowa Gas & integrity used to go together.This is no longer the case,and I have stopped going to that show entirely or endorsing it anyway,because of this subject and other promoter actions.
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Collecting Vintage Sunoco

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#690924 - Fri Jul 21 2017 12:22 PM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
BrianH Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun May 01 2016
Loc: Midland, Michigan
This sounds like just one more reason for me not to attend this show. It's bad enough that they can't keep a handle on the schedule of when the swap meet/room trading starts. Now they're letting this repop junk in as well. I was really happy with how the CTO show back in June was run and the quality of the stuff there was excellent (too excellent for my wallet). I'll stick to the CTO show.

BrianH

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#690938 - Fri Jul 21 2017 05:05 PM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
Mike M. Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Jan 31 2012
Loc: Western, WI.
I e-mailed Rich this Morning as follows along with his response.
Though as my e-mail states, there is a time and place for these signs to be in an auction. I do Not believe that time should be while a major gas/oil show is going on!!!

I LOVE THIS PART " They aren't a reproduction. They were special signs made for a special application. They weren't made to be resold. If it's made in the last 25 years....for whatever reason, we think "contemporary" is a good adjective.

My E-Mail:

Rich, having the chance to run the auction at the Iowa Gas show to me is a pretty cool thing. And I know you don 't like the idea of the auction being at night or on Friday where most of us believe it should be so we can enjoy the swap but having Reproduction signs and items (or as you describe them "Contemporary" )scattered throughout your auction is IMO a kick in the face of our Hobby.

These signs hurt our hobby every day and I understand there is a time and place where you can sell them at one of your auctions but during a show filled with collectors that hate this *****, it just plain sucks.

Thanks, Mike Matteson


His response:

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the note and your thoughts. I do appreciate input. I'll offer a couple of thoughts in response. I shared some of this recently as a post on FB.

First, we love selling people's collections. We love both the buyers and the sellers. Because we're collectors too. So... when we sell a collection, we sell the entire collection. We don't cherry pick. And there's a good reason for that, everyone's collection has some great stuff, some ordinary stuff and some "why did I buy that stuff?" Those are the mistakes.

We all have some, including me! Many of those collections have mint original pieces and pieces that are newer. Pieces that are marriages. And pieces that have been restored with replacement parts. I don't think we've ever sold a restored Juke Box, a car or a slot that didn't have something "aftermarket" on it. Some might calls those things reproduction, because they aren't all original. We wouldn't. It's fairly rare to find pieces that come to the market today that are 100% righteous.

Most collections have some of those righteous pieces. Most have some pieces that have been altered over the years or even restored. Most have pieces that are newer, or contemporary. But the collector that owned them liked them all. We sell them all. And we try to be clear about what we sell.

Where a purist collector hates to see the newer pieces, restaurants, decorators and those new collectors love them. The new younger collectors usually can't step up for that $5,000 sign. But they love the look and when their finances allow, they might step up. The market is big enough to make both groups They were made for a business. They aren't a reproduction. They were special signs made for a special application. They weren't made to be resold. If it's made in the last 25 years....for whatever reason, we think "contemporary" is a good adjective. I guess you're welcome to disagree.
happy.

We have some signs in this auction that are newer. And only one or two were made.
We do our very best to meet the needs of both buyers and sellers, the entry level collector and the advanced collector. In the long haul, the market and the hobby will grow when you're serving both segment. No one gains when sellers are dishonest. That's where "reproductions" hurt the hobby.

There ya got it. My two cents worth. Which might not be worth even that.




Thanks again for your thoughts.




Rich Penn


Edited by Mike M. (Fri Jul 21 2017 05:10 PM)
_________________________
Thanks
Mike

Always Looking for any Pure Oil and Sunoco Items.

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#690947 - Fri Jul 21 2017 06:28 PM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
Still no reasoning why they use tricky names instead of stating exactly what they are. Very dishonest
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#690949 - Fri Jul 21 2017 06:48 PM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
Tankar Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Oct 30 2008
Loc: MN United States
That's about the most Bull.S. I have heard from an auctioneer ever and I have been to 100s of auctions.

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#690953 - Fri Jul 21 2017 07:46 PM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
Hud Oil Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Oct 30 2004
Loc: Belvidere,IL 61008
unbelievable BS, just lost my respect for the man,

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#690959 - Fri Jul 21 2017 08:49 PM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
ask him to explain the fake Mack sign then... if they dont describe that as such, someone will get burnt for thousands
_________________________
Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

See some of my collection & Items for sale...
www.OnceAlwaysPetro.com

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#690968 - Sat Jul 22 2017 06:59 AM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
BrianH Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun May 01 2016
Loc: Midland, Michigan
This is not complicated:

Original - an original, unrestored or unaltered piece.

Restored/touched up - some original finish, with touch-ups or improvements/alterations to the image

Reproduction - a piece produced on a date later than the original production run and not by the original sign manufacturers.

This auctioneer is full of ***** and has zero integrity IMO.

BrianH

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#690975 - Sat Jul 22 2017 09:50 AM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
Done4 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon May 07 2012
Loc: Michigan, Union Pier
Morphy's had repros in their auction but to their credit they were called out as repros. On the other hand if they didn't they would have been busted. When will these guys realize that being up front is appreciated and being caught is somewhat disgraceful.


Edited by Done4 (Sat Jul 22 2017 10:36 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#690976 - Sat Jul 22 2017 10:16 AM Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.]
coheley5 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Jun 11 2009
Loc: Georgia
That's why you should never buy anything unless you have looked at it in person , touched it or picked it up . There is a reason they love the online bidder or phone bidder they are not there .
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If you don't make any noise no one will hear you!

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