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New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required #700898
Wed Dec 20 2017 05:59 AM
Wed Dec 20 2017 05:59 AM
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tokig Offline OP
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New to forum, amateur restorer/collector, trying to become educated on Bowser, sheet metal, sliding top, gas pump.
Where is sales data/photo and more for Bowser 245?
Thank you
Craig

20171219_Bowser1_640.jpg
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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700905
Wed Dec 20 2017 09:09 AM
Wed Dec 20 2017 09:09 AM
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Jack Sim Offline
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My Bowser literature shows the 245 to be a curb oil dispenser, it is almost identical to the 241 which is a gasoline dispenser. Your pump is a gas dispenser.

I have sales literature and ads for the 241, email me if interested. jhsim@petrocollect.com

Jack Sim


Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700906
Wed Dec 20 2017 09:59 AM
Wed Dec 20 2017 09:59 AM
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tokig Offline OP
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Thank you Jack,I have a magazine ad 1917 show this model, I am assuming it is a Bowser 245 just based on my limited research.



1917BowserAdShoptalk1.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Wed Dec 20 2017 10:46 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700909
Wed Dec 20 2017 11:36 AM
Wed Dec 20 2017 11:36 AM
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3 more photos of my Bowser.
I have owned this for 30+ years and did an amateur restoration 30 years ago and then lent it to a friend for his man cave because I didn't have room. Friend moved to Florida and returned it.

I bought a fresh Bowser plate for the top at Hershey. I have the stamped original.

I screwed new pipes in the top to fit the current room height, left off the old vacuum break. I am looking for it now. I have seen it lately rolling around my shop.

Is this pump a Bowser 245?
Thank you
Craig

20171220_083102a.jpg20171220_083122a.jpg20171220_083203a.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Wed Dec 20 2017 11:39 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700912
Wed Dec 20 2017 12:30 PM
Wed Dec 20 2017 12:30 PM
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tokig Offline OP
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My understanding, after several days of web browsing, is the 1922 Bowser Advertisement indicates you could purchase an after market Bowser kit to convert your piston pump Bowser into a visible pump. Either a single 5 gallon or a double 5 gallon, with side lights and an added top globe if desired.
Is this correct?

Shown in the black background photo panel, the before visible on the left, after kitted on the right.....3 different piston type Bowsers....but not limited to these Bowser piston models.

The the middle two photos show a Bowser 245 before and then converted to a single 5 gallon. Correct?
could have easily been a double 5 with globe.

BowserVisibleConversions1922b640.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Wed Dec 20 2017 02:17 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700913
Wed Dec 20 2017 01:07 PM
Wed Dec 20 2017 01:07 PM
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gaspumpfrank Offline
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This is one I restored few years ago.

CIMG0301.JPG
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: gaspumpfrank] #700915
Wed Dec 20 2017 01:28 PM
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tokig Offline OP
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Thank you, looking good.
Is this a 245?

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700916
Wed Dec 20 2017 01:33 PM
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tokig Offline OP
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cover rolled about to lock up pump. But I don't have the correct Red Sentry Filtered Gasoline logo, probably missing other details as well.

20171220_130613a.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700917
Wed Dec 20 2017 02:17 PM
Wed Dec 20 2017 02:17 PM
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yes 245

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700920
Wed Dec 20 2017 03:46 PM
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Jack Sim Offline
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The pump cannot be a 245.
1. Oil dispenser did not have hoses, oil was pumped into a oil can then dispensed into the car.
2. The hose is a gas hose, look at the size of it, and look at the nozzle, it is a gas nozzle, oil dispensers did not have nozzles.
3. Oil dispensers generally did not have globes.

I have an original Bowser color brochure dated 1916. It shows your identical pump, globe and everything. It has the same hose, same globe, etc. In the upper right corner it states: "Bowser Bulletin Cut 241.
A color picture of the 241 is also shown on page 92 of the Gas Pump Identification book that I wrote.
You might want to go to this page of my website and click on 241: http://petrolianacollectibles.com/bowser%20pumps.htm

Jack Sim


Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700926
Wed Dec 20 2017 05:36 PM
Wed Dec 20 2017 05:36 PM
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Yes, I see it now Jack It doesn't Have the spicket to dispensed the oil. Thanks Frank

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700927
Wed Dec 20 2017 05:41 PM
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Yes, I see it now Jack It doesn't Have the spicket to dispensed the oil. Thanks Frank Craig looks like a 241

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700951
Thu Dec 21 2017 05:45 AM
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tokig Offline OP
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I am confused, I thought a cut 241 was a cast iron, clam shell, swinging door, piston pump Bowser with cut 241 cast into the front lower panel. I have seen many photos of this cast 241 model.

And the Bowser cut 245 was a roll door, sheet metal, piston pump later model.

Both configurable to pump oil or gas as required. both had a scrollable measure stop to allow 1 pint, 1 quart, 1/2 gallon, 1 gallon.

Am I understanding this correctly?
Thanks
Craig

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700953
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:12 AM
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:12 AM
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tokig Offline OP
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here is what my understanding of a cut 241 looks like.
This shiny restored pump shows a swing nozzle and a tall discharge as well

cut241front.jpgcut241frontpanel.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Dec 21 2017 08:34 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700954
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:16 AM
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:16 AM
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here is another version cut 241 with visible added.

It appears the center, brass pipe is only holding the visible addition.
There is a brass fill pipe and a valved drain port, but no overflow/flowback pipe.


cut241visiblefront.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Dec 21 2017 09:38 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700955
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:50 AM
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In surfing about, I found this photo of what appears to be a repainted pump with the original gold leaf graphics taped off prior to a lighter red respray.
Were the Bowser graphics actually gold leaf (fire truck style) on these vintage Bowser pumps?

BowserRollTopGrpahics1.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Dec 21 2017 06:54 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700956
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:58 AM
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here is another set of sheet metal, roll top Bowsers.
This again might indicate what the original graphics should be on a roll top Bowser.

BowserRollTopGrpahics2.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700960
Thu Dec 21 2017 08:25 AM
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It appears to me that the cut 245 could be easily configured to either oil or gasoline use as required,
and what allowed "filtered gasolene", on a cut 245,
was the filter with a drain.
When a 245 was configured for oil use, this vertical cylinder, drainable filter was not installed.

BowserFilter1.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Dec 21 2017 09:23 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700961
Thu Dec 21 2017 08:38 AM
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The Bowser cut 241 has a tall, skinny filter? with a drain?

cut241Filter1.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700984
Thu Dec 21 2017 05:11 PM
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I found what I believe to be a Bowser cut 245 oil pump.
painted green, name plate lists London, Ontario, Sydney....and Fort Wayne.
gas filter replaced by an oil can platform, no swing nozzle, a drain for spilled oil at platform, top center cap is closed.
The trip meter for tracking quantity is not installed, again a feature found on a 245 oil pump.

This sold at auction for $2000+ in 2015

Cut245_OilPump1.jpgCut245_OilPump2.jpgCut245_OilPump3.jpgCut245_OilPump4.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Dec 21 2017 06:25 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700987
Thu Dec 21 2017 05:24 PM
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Thanks for sharing this info. I like these-nice looking pumps. That Cut 245 is a nice looking oil pump

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700991
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:45 PM
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:45 PM
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My 245 oil pump has the same cast iron top. Same cast base & sheet metal pedestal,
but the top plate of the pedestal is different and the crack mech & box is different.
It has the same top cap, lock, sheet metal door and has threads for conduit which was used on the gasoline model for the light.
They could make either pump by changing a about 3 parts in the cabinet and a bigger cylinder for the gas pump. The oil pump only goes to 1/2 gallon
But Patent was not applied for until 1917.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US1274039A/en

Jack, in your book you have BOTH sheet metal and cast pumps listed as 1910.
That can't be correct.
Why would anyone submit a patent for something that has been in the field for 7 yrs? By then it would be obsolete.
1916 is more believable. What month in 1916 is the ad from?
Would you care to post part of the ad to confirm the model & date of the document in question, since it can't be read from your site?
There is no evidence to be found in a document you "can't read".
You hold the burden of proof now that you declared you have such a document. I would like to see proof of your claim without having to buy it.
The reason why I ask is because there is conflicting information here. Just a legible part of the ad with all components,
(partial pump pic, date & model), that should not be too hard and will not give anyone a way to copy your ad.
Without sharing that information after making a claim, your statement is not credible.
You were wrong about your decals, so I need to see proof of your claim. I think others may like to see some evidence of your claims too.


If any of you will take the time to read the abstract, you will see that this cabinet was NOT assigned to Bowser and that this is an
"IMPROVEMENT PATENT"
It took me SEVERAL months to find this Patent information and when I shared it to everyone on the site, all I got was shot down by naysayers.
I know it could have gone into production BEFORE applying for the patent, but not 7 yrs. This pump WAS NOT MADE IN 1910
https://patents.google.com/patent/US1274039A/en

011.JPG012.JPG

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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700993
Thu Dec 21 2017 07:13 PM
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As far as I know the pipe under the clock dial & totalizer,
that has the valve on the bottom is for releasing
built up air, water etc. in the system.
Air eliminators were on or in ALL electric pumping units.
"The big rattly can in a Gilbarco, etc" is an Air Eliminator.

Last edited by jkyocom; Thu Dec 21 2017 08:15 PM.

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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700999
Thu Dec 21 2017 08:44 PM
Thu Dec 21 2017 08:44 PM
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Joe,

If you had taken the time to read the patent you suggested above, you will find that it is not a patent for the pump, it is a patent for a improvement in the door of any pump. There is no mention of the Bowser Pump Company in the patent application and almost all of Bowser patents were issued to A.A. Bowser of the Bowser Pump Co.

Also, you need to learn a little about reading patents. Everyone is interested in when was the patent issued. It takes years to get a patent issued. Take a good look at the patent, you will notice that the patent was applied for on July 9, 1911. The application date is more important than the issue date.

Ok, my book, it was written in 2008 and I am sure there are many mistakes because I can either make the mistake in typing, but most are from estimating things such as dates. Presently I cannot find any information as to why I picked the 1910 date, but I did find that in 1911 Bowser made a special painted “Red Sentry” for stations on the Lincoln Highway and this pump was the first pump to be called the "Red Sentry."

Back to gas pumps. First, very few gas pump companies bothered to even submit an application for a patent for a gas pump, they just made them. This was true even up into the 1950s. I have never found a suit where a pump company was sued for patent infringement.
Next, improvement were made in pumps all the time, sometimes to make them better, some to make them cheaper to make. The pump companies didn't bother to apply for a patent for these changes and they didn't bother to put this information in their sales literature. Also, many times the patent, if there was one, did not match what the final product even looked like.
Also, you make mention of some decals, I don't sell decals and I don't repair computers. I sell literature, while I have given away literature I have never given it away to anyone who demanded it.

Jack Sim

Last edited by Jack Sim; Thu Dec 21 2017 08:48 PM.

Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701011
Fri Dec 22 2017 05:56 AM
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tokig Offline OP
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I am realizing that the oil pump version of a cut 245 has a different name plate/ID plate. It does not state RED SENTRY rather BOWSER.
This maybe a determining factor in identifying a cut 245 gas pump versus oil pump.
I would expect all RED SENTRY would be factory issued in red paint.
Seem like oil pumps were painted green as a general rule?

Looks like L47412 stamped on this plate.

My RED SENTRY is stamped L51204.

What is stamped on your cut 245 OEM plate?



Cut245_OilPump4.jpg20171220_083424a (1).jpg
Last edited by tokig; Fri Dec 22 2017 08:03 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701016
Fri Dec 22 2017 07:58 AM
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My Red Sentry is missing a simple piece that appears to be part of the approved calibration.
This is a simple sheet metal bent tab piece, to the left of the pump arm pivot, connected to the stop "peg" for one gallon.
Also looks to be a fillister head machine screw, holding this tab piece, drilled for being "lead sealed" to this tab.

I need someone to take this piece off and photo, to allow me to fabricate one for my pump please.
Also a close up of the 10-24, straight slot, drilled fillister head?

Thank you
Craig

Cut245RedSentryMissingPiece1.JPGCut245RedSentryMissingPiece2.JPGCut245RedSentryMissingPiece3.JPG
Last edited by tokig; Fri Dec 22 2017 01:50 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701053
Sat Dec 23 2017 04:29 AM
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I found a later built cut 245 Red Sentry and I see the ID plate must have been continually revised to the current patent dates.

Here is N29473
Check out the string of patent dates.

Also this tag is reverse color scheme with silver text on black.

At what date did this Bowser cut 245 ID tag reverse tag color scheme?




N29473plate.jpg20171220_083424a (1).jpg
Last edited by tokig; Sat Dec 23 2017 04:53 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701102
Sun Dec 24 2017 01:04 AM
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Most of the answers to the questions you are posting cannot be answered. This type of information was for company records even if it was even noted. Model numbers/serial numbers can be found in the Blue book, but not this information.

Also, the Bowser company closed their doors around 1960. In those days most company records were thrown in the trash rather than given to the local historical museum.

Jack Sim


Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701118
Sun Dec 24 2017 10:14 AM
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Interesting Bowser item on Ebay.

UKBowserPatent1923.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701124
Sun Dec 24 2017 03:18 PM
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I am noticing as I look at cut 245 Bowser pumps, that there is a continual improving of this 245 model. For instance the higher serial number pump not only shows a change in name plate graphics, but also shows a change in steel construction. Instead of rivets used to construct the rolling lid/cover some other method, maybe welding or brazing is used.

Here again is N29473, no rivets top or bottom edge.

Check out the green oil pump 245 above.
Check out the two unrestored 245s above the green oil pump.
My 245 is riveted construction.
check out the top post, this page, rolling cover as well.


20161118_164010.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Sun Dec 24 2017 03:32 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701254
Tue Dec 26 2017 08:44 AM
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Thanks Joe, It is very cool to have patent drawings of this Bowser cut 241 pump still available online.


PatentDrawingCropUS1274039-0.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Tue Dec 26 2017 01:24 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701255
Tue Dec 26 2017 08:50 AM
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I am blown away with the three different fonts used to produce the gold leaf lettering on these Bowser cut 241 gas pumps.
It appears there are two wide stripes around the circumference as well, not gold leafed, but gold paint.

I can't think of another gas pump with gold leaf lettering about the pump manufacturer.

Has anyone reproduced this magnificent set of Bowser gas pump graphics?




20161118_164016.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Tue Dec 26 2017 01:23 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: Jack Sim] #701256
Tue Dec 26 2017 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted By Jack Sim
Model numbers/serial numbers can be found in the Blue book, but not this information.


Thanks Jack, Where is this Blue book found? I am not familiar with it.
Does it go back far enough to address Bowser pumps pre 1927?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Craig

Edit - I did find it on Amazon used thanks


Last edited by tokig; Tue Dec 26 2017 09:10 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701271
Tue Dec 26 2017 01:23 PM
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I have found, in period print, a reference that explains cut 241, and it makes no sense to me, but I am going back on this thread and correcting.
Must have been a federal regulation or tax implication.
Craig
I can't correct page 1,2 of this thread.

Last edited by tokig; Tue Dec 26 2017 01:38 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701273
Tue Dec 26 2017 01:45 PM
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Here is a photo crop of a British document, not my reference above, found on line and refers to the RED SENTRY as stated.
The drawing shows a red cut 241 Bowser pump without the RED SENTRY name plate.
Nice to know the UK were using Bowser pumps in this era.

bowser5.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Tue Dec 26 2017 01:49 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701274
Tue Dec 26 2017 02:36 PM
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Even before December 7, 1941 this country was building war material, no one doubted we were going to war soon. Also, we were supplying war material to Britain and Russia. When the war really started this country needs raw material to make tanks, airplanes, etc. The war department called on the gas pump industry to promote the scraping of old gas pumps. What they did first was to compile a list of gas pump companies that were still in business and they asked these companies to list the pump model numbers and when they were made. The government suggested that pumps that were of a certain age be scrapped for the war effort. Three editions were prepared, the last one even extended into the 1950s, because again we were making war material for the Korean War.

In buying all the service station literature that I have, I do have original copies of all three Blue Books.

Many companies sold pumps in Europe, some even had either factories or assembly plants.

You might be surprised to know that in Australia what we collect and call gas pumps are referred to as "Bowsers." My assumption is that when the first pump was installed someone looked at the face plate and said that is a "Bowser." No matter who made the pumps, they are Bowsers.

Jack Sim


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We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701311
Wed Dec 27 2017 07:52 AM
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It appears on the cut 245 oil pump Bowser ID/Name label, the locations of London, England, Ontario, Canada, Sydney, Australia and Fort Wayne Indiana. So Bowser pumps would have had a notable presence in these countries. In casually looking at the difference between the cast iron 241 and the sheet metal 241, there may not be any interchangeable parts. So my guess is that (1914-1918) WW1 brought about some requests/regulation from the US government that required Bowser to not change it's model number with the introduction of this new model. I am not sure how the other gas pump manufacturers were affected, but maybe this had a holding pattern for them as well.
But let's not digress, this thread is about 241/245 identification, not other manufacturers.

I am looking further at this 245 oil pump and I see the cast iron base plate does not contain a lock slot for a hose nozzle.
So this alone would ID quickly an unrestored Bowser, at least for me.

It would be wonderful if there were some ads or documents on 1914-1922 Bowser pumps from England, or Australia.

Are there any parts books for Bowser documenting these 241/245?

Cut245_OilPumpPair2.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Wed Dec 27 2017 07:53 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701319
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British version of a Bowser cut 241...........Petrol

L_A.C.%20Pumps%20(60).jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701332
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Jack, you apparently failed to read what I said since you repeated it back to me.


I did miss the other date, but now there is conflicting info between the drawing and the text in the patent office.
The pic says filed 1917.
The text says 1911, so how do YOU PROVE which is correct?

If you look a bit closer the text is FULL OF TYPOS.
That is no typo on the drawing.

But tokig has backtracked it to 1914 as fact
This takes the pump back to 1913 In "Europe"
These are sheet metal versions.
https://books.google.com/books?id=7RY-AQ...ain&f=false


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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701336
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This is at the end of the patent description

"In testimony whereof I have signed my name to this specification, on this 25th day of June A. D. 1917.

SHERWOOD HINDS."


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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701353
Thu Dec 28 2017 04:38 AM
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I am noticing the Bowser oil pump configurations have additional differences from a gas pump version.

1) no slot for nozzle lock up
2) no vertical filter with drain
3) front sheet metal panel held on with screws
4) no pipes out the top
5) cut 245 has no meter, cut 241 oil has meter.

Here is an "Accessory and Garage Journal" report from Feb 1919.
Not very clear, but it seems to do what's pertinent.


AccessoryGarageJournalFeb1919.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Dec 28 2017 07:50 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701359
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Interesting find on Bowser pumps 245 and 241.

A&E1919245241.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701401
Fri Dec 29 2017 06:22 AM
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Another Bowser cut 241 ad posted in an obscure British magazine.
Sheet metal Bowser 241 version pictured in ad as a drawing, but the street photo shows the earlier Bowser 241 cast iron swing door model.

Petrol globes indicating a British influence.



May1920IndianEasternEngineer1.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Fri Dec 29 2017 06:27 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701434
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I was able to order "drilled, fillister head, 10x24 screw" from Ebay seller.
Had to order 20 with free shipping.....about $5.
Now I have enough for 100 years, but the best way for me to complete the task.
I still need to fabricate the locking tab, see page two of this thread.

This locking tab holds the 1 gallon stop, after official calibration, and is supposed to have an official wire and lead seal.

NewFillister1.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Fri Dec 29 2017 05:38 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701454
Sat Dec 30 2017 08:19 AM
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It looks like about 1922 Bowser started offering visible pump conversion kits for their pre-visible pumps, one of which was the later model, sliding door cut 241.

I found a 1922 ad for such kits, not much info other sales blab, but very interesting.

This single, 5 gallon cylinder kit was called a Bowser C-2, but I haven't found any Bowser literature on this kit identification. Can anyone shed light on this?

Just prior to this Bowser kit, I believe American Oil Pump & Tank had been offering a similar 5 gallon visible kit......but I could have the offer order mixed up.

The Bowser C-2 visible kit was more elaborate with a locking selector valve and lighting, from what I see.

1922BowserAd.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Sat Dec 30 2017 08:32 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701458
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A closer look at the Bowser visible kit cylinders shows the selector valve.....Return-Fill-Car are the three selector positions.

See the hinged door with a lock to secure the selector indicator needle.


BowserVisibleAddImage1 (2).jpg
Last edited by tokig; Sat Dec 30 2017 02:33 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701550
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I was able to purchase an American Oil Pump & Tank company sales poster, from gaspumpfrank, that identifies some of the kits they offered in 1922 or so..........Bowser, G&B, Wayne, Milwaukee, Rapidayton and an artist drawing of the kits.

Bowser cut 241 is shown, and the kit differs significantly from the Bowser visible kit, but accomplishes the same thing.

FrankVisiblePoster3.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Sun Dec 31 2017 05:02 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701583
Mon Jan 01 2018 08:06 AM
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Happy New Year, welcome to 2018.

The later built Bowser cut 241 have more information in the form of tags screwed to the base plate of the pump,

You learn the vertical, plugged pipe with a drain cock facing outward is a centrifugal water separator.......and must be drained weekly.

Earlier versions of this Bowser cut 241 tagging referred to the same pipe as Filter, with similar instructions.

The other tag simply states full stroke to measured stop and back is the correct operation.


20161118_164223.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Mon Jan 01 2018 08:52 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701652
Mon Jan 01 2018 08:20 PM
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Happy New Year to you as well. Thank you for the large amount of information that you have contributed since you've joined.

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701818
Thu Jan 04 2018 10:01 AM
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Here is a closer look at the American Oil Pump & Tank kit installed on a cut 241.

Rather simplistic and without enough detail to determine what the kit consisted of in total.

Possibly a 5 gallon pressed steel top, 5 gallon cast base, etc.

Fill comes up thru the center, discharge is to the hose, the third pipe could either be an overflow, electrical conduit, cylinder drain.
Anyone have photos or info on this particular visible kit?




VisKitAmericanOn241.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Jan 04 2018 10:32 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701950
Sat Jan 06 2018 05:02 AM
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Here is an example of an unrestored Bowser cut 241.
I only have this one picture of this exact pump.
I thought it would give a good view of the pieces that make up a 241, so I started numbering the pieces to allow discussion.
I want to see if this photo will post, as the file size appears okay.
This Bowser 241 photo is a little tall.
This Bowser 241 is missing the top light bowl, but I picked it because of that fact and clarity it gives the upper pieces.

electrical conduit 5 is not connected to the discharge hose adaptor 4a, altho it might appear that way because they lined up in this photo.
electrical conduit 5 runs behind 4 and 4a directly to electrical box 3.
electrical box 3 and hose/pipe 4/4a are not connected.

241UnrestoredSlider_2_y.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Sat Jan 06 2018 06:11 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701961
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My 245 Oil Pump has a hole in the pedestal top plate for conduit.
It is a different plate than the 241, and the top cast piece has threads for the conduit to come up through the pedestal plate,
and there are 1/2" pipe threads in the cast top under the cap
If I am not mistaken Bowser invented the water separator.
I seem to remember seeing a patent for it in my searches.
I made you a copper copy of the part you are missing and will send it to you if you email me your address.
It will be a little over sized, you will need to make the new one out of stronger material, cutting the hex hole will be tricky.
Thanks
Joe


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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702123
Mon Jan 08 2018 06:22 PM
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Thanks Joe, I need the pattern. I took a guess and made this drawing using a slugging wrench sketch I found on line.
I don't know how I will make a hex hole in the steel or aluminum.

Looks like a 9/16" hex hole = 0.563" AF



calibration2.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Mon Jan 08 2018 06:35 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702126
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Also found a reference to Lincoln Highway and Bowser cut 241 Swing door.

LincolnHiwayBowser241SwingDoor.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702136
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This 8" x 10" photograph was acquired at an estate sale in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. It depicts an artist's rendering of the Bowser Model 241-H. This gasoline pump bears the logo of LINCOLN HIGHWAY. Logo was red on top, white in center and a blue stripe across the bottom. Several early national highways were named/lettered prior to numbering. The Lincoln Highway ran through the Midwest and the city of Fort Wayne. Model 241-H "Long Distance" Pump had an exposed hose; the exposed hose model first became available in 1904 by the S.F. Bowser & Co. of Fort Wayne, Indiana. Lightly stamped on back: Herb Harnish Collection. History of Fort Wayne (2006, ed. Beatty, p. 189): "Sylvanus Bowser became the first local entrepreneur to step out of the shadows through the importance of his invention: the first modern gasoline dispenser. The pump made Fort Wayne a world center of cutting-edge technology. Bowser himself was almost as legendary as the auto moguls of Auburn, Indianapolis or Detroit. Like Ford, he had a knack both for marketing and public relations. His Bowser pumps proclaimed his name up and down the Lincoln Highway, and his marketing catalogs reflected the high quality of workmanship that he motivated his staff to produce in all aspects of their work. Having become the preeminent leader in a rapidly growing field, the industry attracted competition by both Tokheim Corporation and Wayne Pump, both of which were also headquartered in Fort Wayne." Note: The digital i.d. (jbk archive) is not printed on the actual photograph.

s-l1600.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Mon Jan 08 2018 08:02 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702160
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Lincoln Highway map.

LincolnHighwayMap2.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702225
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The first gasoline pump was invented and sold by Sylvanus F. Bowser in Fort Wayne on September 5, 1885.
This pump was used for kerosene lamps and stoves.
The term bowser was used to refer to a vertical gasoline pump.
Although the term is not used anymore in the United States, it still is used sometimes in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada.

The Bowser Company produced special gas pumps for filling stations along the Lincoln and Dixie Highways.
The company had an agreement with the LHA that Lincoln Highway pumps would be available only to businesses along the official Lincoln Highway route.

This photograph captures the Bowser Company's 1915 Lincoln Highway Day parade entry
featuring the Bowser cut 241 Sentry Pumps for the Lincoln and El Camino Real Highways.
There are two other Bowser cut 241 pumps which appear to have different graphics but are not clearly seen.
Sylvanus F. Bowser is on the left. (Courtesy of the Allen County-Fort Wayne Historical Society.)
Bowser Parade Truck

Lincoln Highway Map


BowserDisplayTruck175.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Wed Jan 10 2018 08:02 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702246
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I finally got the part in a box.
Now to try to get to the post office again.......


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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702271
Thu Jan 11 2018 06:27 AM
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Interesting and historical photo of a early Bowser cut 241, swing door, being used to fill a 1911 Auburn.
Evidently the Auburn gas tank is under the front seat.
Note there are no high pipes coming out the top of the Bowser 241 pump.
The gasoline fill hose is plumbed off the swing nozzle.

1911 Auburn Bowser 241 curbside fill


1911-Auburn-w-Bowser-pumpCrop2.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Jan 11 2018 06:44 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702298
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You sure have contributed a ton of info on these pumps. Thank you.

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702318
Fri Jan 12 2018 05:52 AM
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Thanks Jim, It would be nice to see others with this series pump in any condition. It would help to add to the data base of info, especially if there was a serial number to reference as well.

These Bowser cut 241 curbside gas pumps were very popular in England, and I believe, even manufactured in England as well.

Most of the British 241 are slider tops, the later version, and they seem to have a "waisted" center pipe containing both the fill pipe and electrical conduit,
Also seem to have a square bowl on top as well.

And a more practical dial indicator of gallons registering up to 15 gallons, possibly no rotary small amount stop scale.


DSCF0417a.jpgBritCut241BowserRegent.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Fri Jan 12 2018 06:08 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702323
Fri Jan 12 2018 06:34 AM
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Craig' Keep the good work up Loving it!!

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702367
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A little more on the period British Bowser 241..........
Here is Lawrence's Garage, a Filling Station in London with two Bowser 241 slide door pumps framing the closest door, off behind shows another set of pumps and not so clearly a large portable compressor at the left rear wheel of a vehicle.
The 241s appear to have round bowl tops with globes that are PETROL.
The pump operator closest is cranking the Bowser as you can see.

The pumps described as "four modern pumps".

London Filling Station Bowser cut 241

LondonImage3.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Sat Jan 13 2018 08:18 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702545
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Patent drawing showing the sliding top details.

Patent drawing top details

US1274039-1small.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Mon Jan 15 2018 12:05 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702634
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February 1914 Automobile Club of Southern California - Touring News
LINCOLN HIGHWAY SENTRY FOR NATION WIDE ROAD
The greatest monument ever erected in honor of any man is the Lincoln Highway named in honor of our hero statesman and martyred President Abraham Lincoln Extending across the Continent from coast to coast it stands a vivid example of the possibilities for the Good Roads movement and the automobile industry This highway will soon be the National Road for all cross country tourists and towns and cities through which it passes may well consider themselves fortunate As has been the case in every other phase of gasolene and oil storage SF Bowser & Company Inc have come to the front with equipment designed for the convenience and comfort of the tourist or local autoist and which affords to dealers handling gasolene a fine opportunity to effectively solicit their business The Bowser Lincoln Highway Sentry Gasolene Pump will be a welcome guidepost to those traveling the Lincoln Highway and an ever ready source of pure filtered gasolene free from water and other impurities Autoists have long since learned that it pays to buy a good grade of fuel of uniform quality and have become accustomed to watch for the Bowser Red Sentry Gasolene Pump Now when they see the Lincoln Highway Sentry they will drive up with a feeling of satisfaction knowing that they will receive gasolene with all its original power producing qualities free from water and other impurities The garage or supply house who has this pump installed in front of their place of business will be known nationally as one link in the chain of gasolene supply stations covering the Lincoln Highway from the Atlantic to the Pacific The outfit is the Bowser Standard Red Sentry equipment with the exception that the doors of the pump are an exact representation of the Lincoln Highway sign It is equipped standard with meter filter discharge register two way nozzle hose and portable nozzle The equipment will be sold only for use on the Lincoln Highway and for no other place This means that the pump will not be sold for use at any other point except on the exact route mapped out as the Highway In cities through which the Highway passes it can be used only on the streets designated as the Highway and on no others To the garage man or dealer who is located directly on the route of the Highway it means an advantage which those not so located do not have The equipment bears the Bowser guarantee as to quality of material and workmanship It is built to conform to that measure of safety prescribed by the National Board of Fire Underwriters and is labeled under the supervision of their laboratories .

Last edited by tokig; Tue Jan 16 2018 05:46 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702635
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February 1914 Ad for Bowser 241 pump system

ACSCTouringNewsFeb1914.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702662
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I bought and lightly screwed in place, a new white fabric covered fill hose for my Bowser slide door cut 241.
Big Deal, but that is my cold weather extent of restoration capability.

I am still struggling to find for this 241 slide door -
1)top lighted bowl of correct shape and size.
2)Red Sentry graphics that I can peel and stick for low cost restoration.
3) Bowser issued sales literature, parts literature.
4)Installation, in fact any literature, on the visible kits issued as an upgrade.

As you can see, I am trying to light the open face of this pump with easy parts to obtain. Somebody gonna tell me this is not correct? Really?

Need mental help!

20171222_NewWhiteHose2.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Wed Jan 17 2018 07:27 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702732
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I located the original fill pipe with the upper hose connection that has been rattling around my shop for 30 years.
This assembly is too tall to fit my ceiling now, so my intent was to disassemble and fit with shorter fill pipe.
The brass capped, my guess, vacuum breaker (4) is split open. Probably filled with water and froze at some point prior to me.

Any tips on disassembly?

1 fill pipe
2 H fitting
3 pipe plug
4 vacuum breaker

20180112_Bowser241PipeFitting2.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Jan 18 2018 06:51 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702733
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Looking at the Bowser Ad from 1917, This fitting appears to be the correct for this Bowser cut 241 .

BowserAd1917Fitting.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #702879
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Here is a closer look at Bowser slide door 241 before and after installation of the Bowser visible kit.

Seems disappointing that the Gasolene globe was not added back on, as electrical was already there for cylinder lights.

1922SeptemberBowserVisibleAdSmall.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #703038
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Another period Pittsburgh gas station featuring Gulf Oil and Bowser Red Sentry slide door 241 pumps.

Not sure maybe swing door 241.


Bowser Red Sentry pump station



BowserRedSentryGulf2.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Mon Jan 22 2018 10:03 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #703043
Mon Jan 22 2018 12:23 PM
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hornsrus Offline
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i have one of these pumps. i can make bottom sheet medal for them. charley

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #703046
Mon Jan 22 2018 12:50 PM
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tokig Offline OP
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Wow, Thank you Joe. Looky what I got in the mail today!
Excellent

20180122_JoeLockPattern.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: hornsrus] #703047
Mon Jan 22 2018 12:59 PM
Mon Jan 22 2018 12:59 PM
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tokig Offline OP
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Originally Posted By hornsrus
i have one of these pumps. i can make bottom sheet medal for them. charley


Thanks Charley, please post sheet metal photos and more info.
Sheet metal would only apply to the later slide door Bowser 241, in my opinion.
But I don't know anything about swing door Bowser 241 models.

29Aub-600x434.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Mon Jan 22 2018 01:05 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #703048
Mon Jan 22 2018 01:00 PM
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tokig Offline OP
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I took some Scotch tape and stuck my new pattern in place.
Perfect!

20180122_JoeLockPattern2.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #703295
Thu Jan 25 2018 09:21 AM
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tokig Offline OP
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I did not realize how historical these Bowser Red Sentry 241 pumps actually were and further research has been exciting.

Most agree that when “Good Gulf Gasoline” went on sale, Gulf Refining Company opened America’s first true drive-in service station.
The motoring milestone took place at the corner of Baum Boulevard and St. Clair Street in downtown Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on December 1, 1913.
Unlike earlier simple curbside gasoline filling stations, an architect purposefully designed the pagoda-style brick facility offered free air, water, crankcase service, and tire and tube installation.
“This distinction has been claimed for other stations in Los Angeles, Dallas, St. Louis and elsewhere,” notes a Gulf corporate historian.
“The evidence indicates that these were simply sidewalk pumps and that the honor of the first drive-in is that of Gulf and Pittsburgh.”
The Gulf station included a manager and four attendants standing by. The original service station’s brightly lighted marquee provided shelter from bad weather for motorists.

“On its first day, the station sold 30 gallons of gasoline at 27 cents per gallon. On its first Saturday, Gulf’s new service station pumped 350 gallons of gasoline,” notes the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission.
“Prior to the construction of the first Gulf station in Pittsburgh and the countless filling stations that followed throughout the United States, automobile drivers pulled into almost any old general or hardware store, or even blacksmith shops in order to fill up their tanks,” the historical commission explains.
The decision to open the first station along Baum Boulevard in Pittsburgh was no accident.
By 1913 when the station was opened, Baum Boulevard had become known as “automobile row” because of the high number of dealerships that were located along the thoroughfare.
“Gulf executives must have figured that there was no better way to get the public hooked on using filling stations than if they could pull right in and gas up their new car after having just driven it off the lot,” notes a commission historian.
In addition to gas, the Gulf station also offered free air and water – and sold the first commercial road maps in the United States.
“The first generally distributed oil company road maps are usually credited to Gulf,” says Harold Cramer in his Early Gulf Road Maps of Pennsylvania.

This Gulf station was servicing the public thru four or more Bowser cut 241 Red Sentry swing door pumps. These Bowser pumps were well recognized by the “Red Sentry” graphics along with “filtered gasoline” .



FirstGasStationPittsburgh1913Dec1.jpgFirstGasStationPittsburgh1913Dec1b.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Jan 25 2018 09:25 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #704107
Thu Feb 08 2018 01:57 PM
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tokig Offline OP
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Here I see a Bowser cut 241 slide door outside of a Automotive museum in England.
Morgan Motor Museum

The museum is situated in Rolvenden, near Tenterden in Kent.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by tokig; Thu Feb 08 2018 01:59 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #704786
Sun Feb 18 2018 09:43 AM
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tokig Offline OP
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Some of the restoration offered pumps can be quite challenging, but the pictorial photos can be valuable to other projects.


[Linked Image][Linked Image]

Last edited by tokig; Sun Feb 18 2018 09:45 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #705569
Fri Mar 02 2018 01:37 PM
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tokig Offline OP
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At auction, a different restoration to fit someones likes.

[Linked Image]

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #705762
Mon Mar 05 2018 02:21 AM
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tokig Offline OP
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I found an eBay ad listing from late last year 2017 of a man selling new sheet metal for 241s. Appears to be sliding door lower sheet metal.
Ebay listing stated -

Bowser red sentry petrol pump lower tin work.
For sale is a remanufacturered lower tin work panel for the Bowser red sentry. This auction is for the four pieces ready for you to weld together. Pictured is an assembled lower panel and a restored pump, not included in this auction. You are buying the four panels ready to weld together to fit your lower casting. Also included are two remanufactured cover plates that go over the over hole in the lower panel.
These can be posted worldwide or collected from North Bristol. For international postage please let me know your location.

seller - land_rover_80inch_nut (1561 )

international seller, price for metal and shipping appears to me to be about $250.



241panels3.jpg241panels1.jpg241panels4.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Mon Mar 05 2018 02:23 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #706077
Sun Mar 11 2018 09:26 AM
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The condition of a Bowser Red Sentry , slide door , cut 241 as found in the wild.

Probably photographs much better, and without surrounding distractions, as a dead body on the ground.

UK Bowser pumps, as this one is, seems to come with a whirly flow indicator at the top and a more sophisticated center pipe cover which houses electrical.

RedSentryDeadUK.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Sun Mar 11 2018 09:32 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #707170
Fri Mar 30 2018 05:56 PM
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Here is a Bowser Red Sentry cut 241 early model, swing door. Both sides have an opvalving can allow pumping out the hoseening door. The rotary pump can either dispense at a low level into a container or valving can allow pumping out the hose for longer distance.

The later sliding door Bowser Red Sentry cut 241 only opened on one side.

H1097-L114386704.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Fri Mar 30 2018 05:58 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #711549
Sat Jun 16 2018 03:08 PM
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tokig Offline OP
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I think this is a Bowser 241 slide door pump.

England, pre war, Phil Vincent on a series A Rapide. probably 1939

[Linked Image]

Last edited by tokig; Sat Jun 16 2018 03:09 PM.
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