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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700955
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:50 AM
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:50 AM
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West Virginia
tokig Offline OP
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In surfing about, I found this photo of what appears to be a repainted pump with the original gold leaf graphics taped off prior to a lighter red respray.
Were the Bowser graphics actually gold leaf (fire truck style) on these vintage Bowser pumps?

BowserRollTopGrpahics1.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Dec 21 2017 06:54 AM.
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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700956
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:58 AM
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:58 AM
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West Virginia
tokig Offline OP
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here is another set of sheet metal, roll top Bowsers.
This again might indicate what the original graphics should be on a roll top Bowser.

BowserRollTopGrpahics2.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700960
Thu Dec 21 2017 08:25 AM
Thu Dec 21 2017 08:25 AM
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West Virginia
tokig Offline OP
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It appears to me that the cut 245 could be easily configured to either oil or gasoline use as required,
and what allowed "filtered gasolene", on a cut 245,
was the filter with a drain.
When a 245 was configured for oil use, this vertical cylinder, drainable filter was not installed.

BowserFilter1.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Dec 21 2017 09:23 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700961
Thu Dec 21 2017 08:38 AM
Thu Dec 21 2017 08:38 AM
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tokig Offline OP
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The Bowser cut 241 has a tall, skinny filter? with a drain?

cut241Filter1.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700984
Thu Dec 21 2017 05:11 PM
Thu Dec 21 2017 05:11 PM
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West Virginia
tokig Offline OP
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I found what I believe to be a Bowser cut 245 oil pump.
painted green, name plate lists London, Ontario, Sydney....and Fort Wayne.
gas filter replaced by an oil can platform, no swing nozzle, a drain for spilled oil at platform, top center cap is closed.
The trip meter for tracking quantity is not installed, again a feature found on a 245 oil pump.

This sold at auction for $2000+ in 2015

Cut245_OilPump1.jpgCut245_OilPump2.jpgCut245_OilPump3.jpgCut245_OilPump4.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Thu Dec 21 2017 06:25 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700987
Thu Dec 21 2017 05:24 PM
Thu Dec 21 2017 05:24 PM
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Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
JimT Offline
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Thanks for sharing this info. I like these-nice looking pumps. That Cut 245 is a nice looking oil pump

Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700991
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:45 PM
Thu Dec 21 2017 06:45 PM
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My 245 oil pump has the same cast iron top. Same cast base & sheet metal pedestal,
but the top plate of the pedestal is different and the crack mech & box is different.
It has the same top cap, lock, sheet metal door and has threads for conduit which was used on the gasoline model for the light.
They could make either pump by changing a about 3 parts in the cabinet and a bigger cylinder for the gas pump. The oil pump only goes to 1/2 gallon
But Patent was not applied for until 1917.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US1274039A/en

Jack, in your book you have BOTH sheet metal and cast pumps listed as 1910.
That can't be correct.
Why would anyone submit a patent for something that has been in the field for 7 yrs? By then it would be obsolete.
1916 is more believable. What month in 1916 is the ad from?
Would you care to post part of the ad to confirm the model & date of the document in question, since it can't be read from your site?
There is no evidence to be found in a document you "can't read".
You hold the burden of proof now that you declared you have such a document. I would like to see proof of your claim without having to buy it.
The reason why I ask is because there is conflicting information here. Just a legible part of the ad with all components,
(partial pump pic, date & model), that should not be too hard and will not give anyone a way to copy your ad.
Without sharing that information after making a claim, your statement is not credible.
You were wrong about your decals, so I need to see proof of your claim. I think others may like to see some evidence of your claims too.


If any of you will take the time to read the abstract, you will see that this cabinet was NOT assigned to Bowser and that this is an
"IMPROVEMENT PATENT"
It took me SEVERAL months to find this Patent information and when I shared it to everyone on the site, all I got was shot down by naysayers.
I know it could have gone into production BEFORE applying for the patent, but not 7 yrs. This pump WAS NOT MADE IN 1910
https://patents.google.com/patent/US1274039A/en

011.JPG012.JPG

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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700993
Thu Dec 21 2017 07:13 PM
Thu Dec 21 2017 07:13 PM
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As far as I know the pipe under the clock dial & totalizer,
that has the valve on the bottom is for releasing
built up air, water etc. in the system.
Air eliminators were on or in ALL electric pumping units.
"The big rattly can in a Gilbarco, etc" is an Air Eliminator.

Last edited by jkyocom; Thu Dec 21 2017 08:15 PM.

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Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #700999
Thu Dec 21 2017 08:44 PM
Thu Dec 21 2017 08:44 PM
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St. Louis, MO, USA
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Jack Sim Offline
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Joe,

If you had taken the time to read the patent you suggested above, you will find that it is not a patent for the pump, it is a patent for a improvement in the door of any pump. There is no mention of the Bowser Pump Company in the patent application and almost all of Bowser patents were issued to A.A. Bowser of the Bowser Pump Co.

Also, you need to learn a little about reading patents. Everyone is interested in when was the patent issued. It takes years to get a patent issued. Take a good look at the patent, you will notice that the patent was applied for on July 9, 1911. The application date is more important than the issue date.

Ok, my book, it was written in 2008 and I am sure there are many mistakes because I can either make the mistake in typing, but most are from estimating things such as dates. Presently I cannot find any information as to why I picked the 1910 date, but I did find that in 1911 Bowser made a special painted “Red Sentry” for stations on the Lincoln Highway and this pump was the first pump to be called the "Red Sentry."

Back to gas pumps. First, very few gas pump companies bothered to even submit an application for a patent for a gas pump, they just made them. This was true even up into the 1950s. I have never found a suit where a pump company was sued for patent infringement.
Next, improvement were made in pumps all the time, sometimes to make them better, some to make them cheaper to make. The pump companies didn't bother to apply for a patent for these changes and they didn't bother to put this information in their sales literature. Also, many times the patent, if there was one, did not match what the final product even looked like.
Also, you make mention of some decals, I don't sell decals and I don't repair computers. I sell literature, while I have given away literature I have never given it away to anyone who demanded it.

Jack Sim

Last edited by Jack Sim; Thu Dec 21 2017 08:48 PM.

Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701011
Fri Dec 22 2017 05:56 AM
Fri Dec 22 2017 05:56 AM
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West Virginia
tokig Offline OP
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I am realizing that the oil pump version of a cut 245 has a different name plate/ID plate. It does not state RED SENTRY rather BOWSER.
This maybe a determining factor in identifying a cut 245 gas pump versus oil pump.
I would expect all RED SENTRY would be factory issued in red paint.
Seem like oil pumps were painted green as a general rule?

Looks like L47412 stamped on this plate.

My RED SENTRY is stamped L51204.

What is stamped on your cut 245 OEM plate?



Cut245_OilPump4.jpg20171220_083424a (1).jpg
Last edited by tokig; Fri Dec 22 2017 08:03 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701016
Fri Dec 22 2017 07:58 AM
Fri Dec 22 2017 07:58 AM
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tokig Offline OP
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My Red Sentry is missing a simple piece that appears to be part of the approved calibration.
This is a simple sheet metal bent tab piece, to the left of the pump arm pivot, connected to the stop "peg" for one gallon.
Also looks to be a fillister head machine screw, holding this tab piece, drilled for being "lead sealed" to this tab.

I need someone to take this piece off and photo, to allow me to fabricate one for my pump please.
Also a close up of the 10-24, straight slot, drilled fillister head?

Thank you
Craig

Cut245RedSentryMissingPiece1.JPGCut245RedSentryMissingPiece2.JPGCut245RedSentryMissingPiece3.JPG
Last edited by tokig; Fri Dec 22 2017 01:50 PM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701053
Sat Dec 23 2017 04:29 AM
Sat Dec 23 2017 04:29 AM
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West Virginia
tokig Offline OP
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I found a later built cut 245 Red Sentry and I see the ID plate must have been continually revised to the current patent dates.

Here is N29473
Check out the string of patent dates.

Also this tag is reverse color scheme with silver text on black.

At what date did this Bowser cut 245 ID tag reverse tag color scheme?




N29473plate.jpg20171220_083424a (1).jpg
Last edited by tokig; Sat Dec 23 2017 04:53 AM.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701102
Sun Dec 24 2017 01:04 AM
Sun Dec 24 2017 01:04 AM
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St. Louis, MO, USA
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Jack Sim Offline
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Most of the answers to the questions you are posting cannot be answered. This type of information was for company records even if it was even noted. Model numbers/serial numbers can be found in the Blue book, but not this information.

Also, the Bowser company closed their doors around 1960. In those days most company records were thrown in the trash rather than given to the local historical museum.

Jack Sim


Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701118
Sun Dec 24 2017 10:14 AM
Sun Dec 24 2017 10:14 AM
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West Virginia
tokig Offline OP
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Interesting Bowser item on Ebay.

UKBowserPatent1923.jpg
Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig] #701124
Sun Dec 24 2017 03:18 PM
Sun Dec 24 2017 03:18 PM
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West Virginia
tokig Offline OP
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I am noticing as I look at cut 245 Bowser pumps, that there is a continual improving of this 245 model. For instance the higher serial number pump not only shows a change in name plate graphics, but also shows a change in steel construction. Instead of rivets used to construct the rolling lid/cover some other method, maybe welding or brazing is used.

Here again is N29473, no rivets top or bottom edge.

Check out the green oil pump 245 above.
Check out the two unrestored 245s above the green oil pump.
My 245 is riveted construction.
check out the top post, this page, rolling cover as well.


20161118_164010.jpg
Last edited by tokig; Sun Dec 24 2017 03:32 PM.
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