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#701254 - Tue Dec 26 2017 09:44 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Thanks Joe, It is very cool to have patent drawings of this Bowser cut 241 pump still available online.



Attachments
PatentDrawingCropUS1274039-0.jpg




Edited by tokig (Tue Dec 26 2017 02:24 PM)

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#701255 - Tue Dec 26 2017 09:50 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I am blown away with the three different fonts used to produce the gold leaf lettering on these Bowser cut 241 gas pumps.
It appears there are two wide stripes around the circumference as well, not gold leafed, but gold paint.

I can't think of another gas pump with gold leaf lettering about the pump manufacturer.

Has anyone reproduced this magnificent set of Bowser gas pump graphics?





Attachments
20161118_164016.jpg




Edited by tokig (Tue Dec 26 2017 02:23 PM)

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#701256 - Tue Dec 26 2017 09:58 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: Jack Sim]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Originally Posted By Jack Sim
Model numbers/serial numbers can be found in the Blue book, but not this information.


Thanks Jack, Where is this Blue book found? I am not familiar with it.
Does it go back far enough to address Bowser pumps pre 1927?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Craig

Edit - I did find it on Amazon used thanks



Edited by tokig (Tue Dec 26 2017 10:10 AM)

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#701271 - Tue Dec 26 2017 02:23 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I have found, in period print, a reference that explains cut 241, and it makes no sense to me, but I am going back on this thread and correcting.
Must have been a federal regulation or tax implication.
Craig
I can't correct page 1,2 of this thread.


Edited by tokig (Tue Dec 26 2017 02:38 PM)

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#701273 - Tue Dec 26 2017 02:45 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Here is a photo crop of a British document, not my reference above, found on line and refers to the RED SENTRY as stated.
The drawing shows a red cut 241 Bowser pump without the RED SENTRY name plate.
Nice to know the UK were using Bowser pumps in this era.


Attachments
bowser5.jpg




Edited by tokig (Tue Dec 26 2017 02:49 PM)

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#701274 - Tue Dec 26 2017 03:36 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Even before December 7, 1941 this country was building war material, no one doubted we were going to war soon. Also, we were supplying war material to Britain and Russia. When the war really started this country needs raw material to make tanks, airplanes, etc. The war department called on the gas pump industry to promote the scraping of old gas pumps. What they did first was to compile a list of gas pump companies that were still in business and they asked these companies to list the pump model numbers and when they were made. The government suggested that pumps that were of a certain age be scrapped for the war effort. Three editions were prepared, the last one even extended into the 1950s, because again we were making war material for the Korean War.

In buying all the service station literature that I have, I do have original copies of all three Blue Books.

Many companies sold pumps in Europe, some even had either factories or assembly plants.

You might be surprised to know that in Australia what we collect and call gas pumps are referred to as "Bowsers." My assumption is that when the first pump was installed someone looked at the face plate and said that is a "Bowser." No matter who made the pumps, they are Bowsers.

Jack Sim
_________________________
Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#701311 - Wed Dec 27 2017 08:52 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
It appears on the cut 245 oil pump Bowser ID/Name label, the locations of London, England, Ontario, Canada, Sydney, Australia and Fort Wayne Indiana. So Bowser pumps would have had a notable presence in these countries. In casually looking at the difference between the cast iron 241 and the sheet metal 241, there may not be any interchangeable parts. So my guess is that (1914-1918) WW1 brought about some requests/regulation from the US government that required Bowser to not change it's model number with the introduction of this new model. I am not sure how the other gas pump manufacturers were affected, but maybe this had a holding pattern for them as well.
But let's not digress, this thread is about 241/245 identification, not other manufacturers.

I am looking further at this 245 oil pump and I see the cast iron base plate does not contain a lock slot for a hose nozzle.
So this alone would ID quickly an unrestored Bowser, at least for me.

It would be wonderful if there were some ads or documents on 1914-1922 Bowser pumps from England, or Australia.

Are there any parts books for Bowser documenting these 241/245?


Attachments
Cut245_OilPumpPair2.jpg




Edited by tokig (Wed Dec 27 2017 08:53 AM)

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#701319 - Wed Dec 27 2017 02:14 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
British version of a Bowser cut 241...........Petrol


Attachments
L_A.C.%20Pumps%20(60).jpg



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#701332 - Wed Dec 27 2017 06:01 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
Jack, you apparently failed to read what I said since you repeated it back to me.


I did miss the other date, but now there is conflicting info between the drawing and the text in the patent office.
The pic says filed 1917.
The text says 1911, so how do YOU PROVE which is correct?

If you look a bit closer the text is FULL OF TYPOS.
That is no typo on the drawing.

But tokig has backtracked it to 1914 as fact
This takes the pump back to 1913 In "Europe"
These are sheet metal versions.
https://books.google.com/books?id=7RY-AQ...ain&f=false
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#701336 - Wed Dec 27 2017 06:46 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
This is at the end of the patent description

"In testimony whereof I have signed my name to this specification, on this 25th day of June A. D. 1917.

SHERWOOD HINDS."
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#701353 - Thu Dec 28 2017 05:38 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I am noticing the Bowser oil pump configurations have additional differences from a gas pump version.

1) no slot for nozzle lock up
2) no vertical filter with drain
3) front sheet metal panel held on with screws
4) no pipes out the top
5) cut 245 has no meter, cut 241 oil has meter.

Here is an "Accessory and Garage Journal" report from Feb 1919.
Not very clear, but it seems to do what's pertinent.



Attachments
AccessoryGarageJournalFeb1919.jpg




Edited by tokig (Thu Dec 28 2017 08:50 AM)

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#701359 - Thu Dec 28 2017 08:58 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Interesting find on Bowser pumps 245 and 241.


Attachments
A&E1919245241.jpg



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#701401 - Fri Dec 29 2017 07:22 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Another Bowser cut 241 ad posted in an obscure British magazine.
Sheet metal Bowser 241 version pictured in ad as a drawing, but the street photo shows the earlier Bowser 241 cast iron swing door model.

Petrol globes indicating a British influence.




Attachments
May1920IndianEasternEngineer1.jpg




Edited by tokig (Fri Dec 29 2017 07:27 AM)

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#701434 - Fri Dec 29 2017 06:32 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I was able to order "drilled, fillister head, 10x24 screw" from Ebay seller.
Had to order 20 with free shipping.....about $5.
Now I have enough for 100 years, but the best way for me to complete the task.
I still need to fabricate the locking tab, see page two of this thread.

This locking tab holds the 1 gallon stop, after official calibration, and is supposed to have an official wire and lead seal.


Attachments
NewFillister1.jpg




Edited by tokig (Fri Dec 29 2017 06:38 PM)

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#701454 - Sat Dec 30 2017 09:19 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Offline
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
It looks like about 1922 Bowser started offering visible pump conversion kits for their pre-visible pumps, one of which was the later model, sliding door cut 241.

I found a 1922 ad for such kits, not much info other sales blab, but very interesting.

This single, 5 gallon cylinder kit was called a Bowser C-2, but I haven't found any Bowser literature on this kit identification. Can anyone shed light on this?

Just prior to this Bowser kit, I believe American Oil Pump & Tank had been offering a similar 5 gallon visible kit......but I could have the offer order mixed up.

The Bowser C-2 visible kit was more elaborate with a locking selector valve and lighting, from what I see.


Attachments
1922BowserAd.jpg




Edited by tokig (Sat Dec 30 2017 09:32 AM)

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