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Author	Topic: SIGN GROMMETS > Any Experts Out there??
Pablo Active Member Posts: 481 From: Sugar Land, TX Registered: Jan 2005	posted 02-13-2006 07:25 PM Grommets... Don't know if this topic has been discussed before but I've been curious for quite some time if there are any grommet experts on Old Gas. As sign collectors know, grommets are made in different sizes, materials and styles. I've always used the grommets to help in determining the age of a sign and if it's genuine or a repop (rightly or wrongly). My assumptions are that the older grommets were made out of steel or silver colored metal rather than brass (brass coming along in the 1960's?). I also assume that star backed grommets are generally older than other styles. Of course, older grommets could be found in defunct factories and applied to repop signs. So, if anyone has any knowledge about grommets please share it with the rest of us Old Gassers. Thank you!! Paul IP: Logged
blackteetexacogold Active Member Posts: 917 From: Saline, Mi USA Registered: Jan 2005	posted 02-14-2006 04:50 PM Paul: That's the BEST subject I've seen on oldgas yet !!! Where is everyone on this thread ??? Mr. Bennett, you still sleeping by the towers ? Let's go guys !!! Kisses, cards, flowers and you know what.... HA HA Let's get back to business here. Doug IP: Logged
Pablo Active Member Posts: 481 From: Sugar Land, TX Registered: Jan 2005	posted 02-14-2006 06:22 PM Doug, Yeah, I'm very surprised there's been no response on this topic. I guess nobody knows anymore about grommets than I do? Maybe it's another mystery in the hobby like the Golden West sign?? Paul IP: Logged
silent chief Active Member Posts: 71 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Sep 2005	posted 02-14-2006 06:44 PM I once replaced some metal grommets in an old Fire Chief pump plate. The originals were just chunks of rust, so I removed them and cleaned up the sign, which was in great shape except around the grommet holes. I used some grommets designed for holes in leather, and I can't tell the difference from originals, unless I turn the sign over and look at how I peened them over. I know it's not original, but at least now the rust can't propagate. IP: Logged
kmann Active Member Posts: 1782 From: new york Registered: Aug 2003	posted 02-14-2006 08:10 PM this was discussed before... but... i can't find the thread... IP: Logged
rd_signs Active Member Posts: 79 From: White Deer, Tx. USA Registered: Jan 2006	posted 02-14-2006 08:49 PM I didnt think anyone else even noticed the eylets on old signs,LOL ,Glad to see some do. I have been replacing missing eylets or grommets on signs for 35 years..i used the ones from old beater signs to "dress up" better signs..This is not an easy task,but with patience and some home made punches and tools it can be done. another source of eylets are signs such as No Tresspassing and so forth..I have used the eylets made for leather also, but the sizes are very limited..at least what i have found.. Brass eyelets were used on most signs way back,,,maybe back to the 20's I have seen the backside with the star and rollrd edge and dont think this can be used to judge the age..I wont guarantee any of this,,just my observation...Later,,RD IP: Logged
Dick Bennett Active Member Posts: 6015 From: Santa Paula, Calif Registered: Oct 2000	posted 02-14-2006 09:04 PM black t, Not too many gromets are used on pumps !! As rd_signs say's, with a few custom made punches, you can do/make almost anything. Eons ago, I made the small riverts for a G&B T-176 3 stick indicators [that took 66 of the little Bast**ds. AIN'T gona do that AGAIN !]. DB IP: Logged
kmann Active Member Posts: 1782 From: new york Registered: Aug 2003	posted 02-14-2006 09:11 PM there ya' go.... don't judge a sign by its grommets.. IP: Logged
blackteetexacogold Active Member Posts: 917 From: Saline, Mi USA Registered: Jan 2005	posted 02-15-2006 04:33 PM SORRY KMANN: I DO JUDGE A SIGN BY IT'S GROMETTS... WHEN THEY'RE ALL IN PLACE, I'M A HAPPY CAMPER. DICK: WHAT DO YOU MEAN PUMPS DON'T USE GROMETTS ??? AND BE NICE TO T.T. HA HA... I LOVE YOUR REPLYS. DOUG IP: Logged
kmann Active Member Posts: 1782 From: new york Registered: Aug 2003	posted 02-15-2006 07:53 PM hey doug.. thats o.k... to each his own... again.. i can't find the thread where the grommet issue was discussed but there was a concensus of opinion that serrated grommets meant the real deal .. that the sign was an original.. now... i got an O.K. used car sign here... i was told that it was an early andy rooney repro .. round 11 3/4 diameter. yup.. serrated grommets. so.. i gotta believe its real.. right ??... not!!.. but hey... maybe its a salesmans sample or a first run original and all others were scrapped.. lol..hey... i had to take it as part of a deal on a flying A sign.. my kid likes it so it hangs in his room... be careful out there.... IP: Logged
blackteetexacogold Active Member Posts: 917 From: Saline, Mi USA Registered: Jan 2005	posted 02-15-2006 08:18 PM Kmann: I know nothing about grommets. I just like my signs to have as many as possible. It looks better that way bro. I'm sure that i could spot a replacement on a sign from the backside? Hopefully, but i havn't ran into that yet. Either they're there or not. Thanks for the help. Doug IP: Logged
dodogas Active Member Posts: 3299 From: Kelowna British Columbia Canada Registered: Jan 2003	posted 02-15-2006 10:25 PM Gilbarco 6ft has a grommet on the light switch for the globe. Rusty grommets on a Fire-Chief sign, I thought they were usually brass or plated brass?? IP: Logged
silent chief Active Member Posts: 71 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Sep 2005	posted 02-16-2006 10:09 AM They were indeed brass. It looked like someone just yanked this plate off an old pump and damaged the brass grommets and the porcelain around the holes, and the underlying steel was exposed and rusted. I used a slightly larger grommet than original, and it almost covers the rust damage. IP: Logged
troach Active Member Posts: 1351 From: Lodi, CA. Registered: Jun 2004	posted 02-16-2006 10:58 AM Well I have kept silent until now. Kmann I remember the thread on grommets as I was involved in that. I used to believe like Paul there was an age difference between steel and brass and if the gommets were serrated on the back and have come to the conclusion it means basically nothing. I have seen and own repops with all kinds and originals from the same year with some brass and some steel. Looking at the backs of some signs is a good way to judge but not always a the complete factor. I think I'll post some pictures of just the backs for a new thread on here and let you guys tell me what you think. The more I collect the more I learn there is nobody out there that has all the answers. Nobody on this site or in the world can just say "that company never had a sign like that" You aren't old enough to have lived then or remember. No one has been all over our great USA to be this great authority. I try to listen to those who have collected for a long time but take it with a grain of salt. I think that you Paul or I can authenticate a sign as well as most but not without it in our hands. I have had Shell pump plates in my hand and an original is fairly heavy and heavy shelving on it. A supposed Shell pump plate original was bought at a CA, gas bash that was believed an original but I felt the weight on it and ran my hands across it and in my opinion it was somebody's repop. The story went "they never repopped this plate." If the deal is to good to believe it probably is phony. My 2 cents. In conclusion of this dissertationI agree do not judge the sign entirely by it's grommets. Ted ------------------ Ted Pam & Ethyl Roach Lodi CA. Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield pca-west.org IP: Logged
Pablo Active Member Posts: 481 From: Sugar Land, TX Registered: Jan 2005	posted 02-16-2006 07:12 PM Ted, After my post, I found an earlier Old Gas discussion concerning signs and grommets. It looks like the consensus is there's no real iron clad rules on grommet age. I checked my 1930's Pennzoil bottle rack sign and it has starred brass grommets. So, the idea that brass means newer is false. On the other hand, my NOS round Flying A pump plates have bright brass grommets like you would expect to see on a repop. You just have to know how the sign was generally manufactured in that time period. I say "generally" because the odd ball example will come along that's different but genuine. Bottom line, a collector must closely examine the sign and the grommets. Then make an educated guess about age from the evidence. The more genuine signs you can view and examine, the easier it will be to determine if the next sign is real. Paul IP: Logged

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