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Posted By: strnge Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 04:08 PM
Should we have a section listed something like "Known or Suspected Fake Sign Sellers on Ebay or any other place"?
It would be nice to have a list somewhere of the fake sign sellers.
Posted By: KZ1000 Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 04:18 PM
That is an Excellent idea, have all the ebay id's listed, and a note whether they are strictly Repop or they sell both.
Posted By: gasoildude Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 04:19 PM
It would help out the newer collectors for sure!!
With some sellers it is an honest mistake (they don't know)
Others make a habit of deceiving people, there are a few names that would qualify for the list
Posted By: 57tbirdkid Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 04:30 PM
We should report these people to law enforcement to prevent this from happening. They will just create a new ebay ID and it starts again!! Must find the source of these signs!!
Posted By: Gary Drye Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 04:30 PM
Great idea but since I'm not a lawyer, I don't know about the legal stipulations of posting names/IDs on the internet in a negative fashion. I wouldn't want Jim to get into any legal confrontations. I'll hold off my vote until a law expert chimes in.

In MY FAVORITE SELLERs on MY EBAY, I have more sellers listed that I WON'T do business with than ones I consider my favorites. LOL
Posted By: Oldgas Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 05:03 PM
I have to agree with Gary. That could open up legal battles with multiple guys that could cost a lot even if this site would "win" them.
Posted By: 5 quart Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 05:17 PM
Definite can of worms- sellers drift around- some sell under 2 or more IDs - some sellers just dont know what they have- should not be on this site- Just my opinion- thanks don
Posted By: Alex Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 06:26 PM
I am not a lawyer, don't even play one on TV. But, as I started to read the post, I had the same thoughts as Gary Drye. We may be opening ourselves up to charges of restraint of trade or charged with libel, that, even if "we" are right, the cost to defend ourselves would be $$$$. I think we are doing well by educating people here and have at times th ought we may even be going too far in our comments about some people.

We all know who the "bad sellers" are, but as had been mentioned, there may be people who are inadvertently selling reproductions thinking they are real. Haven't we all been fooled by something we bought at one time or another? I know I have.

Letting companies know that people are reproducung stuff and hope they will chase downthe "license infringements" is one thing. But, probably not done as often as we would like to see.

Sorry I don't have any new ideas, but, I think the discussion on the topc is worth having.
Posted By: gulfiend! Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 06:54 PM
Originally Posted By: advertologist
Others make a habit of deceiving people



...you mean they 'make a LIVING deceiving people'... grin
I, as I think most collectors, would like a "listing" of those who sell repops and fantasy signs as originals on a continuous basis.

It would be fantastic for the new collector who hasn't read the words and excuses of some of the "questionable" sellers. I just can't think of a way where this site doesn't take the brunt of the fallout.

We have seen how sellers like Treasureray and Mike Mas, react to being called out on their items.
Posted By: Savinsam Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 06:57 PM
In my opinion, Jim Potts, this website, & its members has too much integrity to lose by taking the chance of legal disputes that could occur, thus messing up a great thing. Sam
Posted By: oldgoaly Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 07:13 PM
You could just be a sticky in the proper forum: http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=8&page=1 with a general warning These ebay (craigslist,etc) sellers have put numerous fake signs, cans, etc for sale. Buyer Beware! Only the moderators/owner could add/subtract, and repeat / problem sellers would be listed. tt
Posted By: 57tbirdkid Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 07:30 PM
We are not the ones selling counterfeit goods!! I would just call it "Sellers to watch out for". What seller who is selling fake signs will come after old gas? They have more of a chance to open a can of worms on themselves!!
Posted By: Coverall Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 08:23 PM
There have been several signs on E-bay I've wanted,but scared to death they are reproductions. I felt it would be a bother to submit a question every time I wanted to buy a sign ( is this real or repo ?) The signs make the shop look great, would hope they would be a good investment. Now I'm checking the known reproduction forum for the sign i might be interested in. Maybe the signs and item #'s could be posted instead of the sellers.I've already seen this on the sight and find it helpful.
Posted By: Lastgas15 Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 09:03 PM
I don't think a separate forum for sellers of unmarked repros would be much different than what gets posted already. We need to keep the pressure on the people making and selling unmarked repros!
Threats of legal action are just that. Threats. The last place the fraudulent sellers want to be is in a court room.
Posted By: Mr.Wadhams Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 09:38 PM
I voted no. Too many problems even beside the huge legal ramifications. Lawsuits are too easy to file these days....and a lot of these guys have money and thier lawyers at hand already.

I think back at all the legit items that were flagged by someone as being fake or suspicious, followed by others chiming in in agreement....until a "big name" finally confirmed it's authenticity.

I think it would be a VERY hard section to moderate. Look how several of the questionable sellers have "dropped in" on the site already...got nasty in a hurry.

Jim
Could it spun as, "Here are some cool guys selling reproduction signs, and you can barely tell the high quality reproductions apart from the originals! Isn't it special?"
I think it's Best to keep posting the items in the Thread that is already set up,
Known & Suspected Unmarked Reproductions

http://oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=8&page=1
I resell most of whatever I buy. I always give a history. I had one sent back for being a repro., even though I said it could be in the auction. I refunded his money and blocked him from buying again. Seller and buyer BOTH should be careful in a auction.
Now this will get taken off here, because of this statement. Do not just pick on Ebay. There are scammers everywhere. Even here, I know for a fact.
Posted By: Jarvis Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 10:51 PM
Under the known reproductions in the subject maybe put a guys name or ebay name and the whatever it is he is selling like frontier sign? Then in the thread post the details and so on... makes it easy. Not much different than now but the guys name is in the main subject.
Posted By: oillease55 Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 11:19 PM
I agree with DB. They're getting a lot of airplay on this site,let's keep up the pressure in the catagory we already have for this. ;;;;;;;;;;;;;Ron
Posted By: Oldgas Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Mon Feb 21 2011 11:20 PM
The thing to consider is this -
When an individual posts his opinion on a Web site about an object or a person, it is that person's personal responsibility if it comes to litigation.

By doing what we are doing now in the Unmarked Repro forum, the system is transparent with each comment attributable to a specific member.

When the opinions are compiled into an organized published list, the organizer can be held responsible for the end result.
Quote:
Maybe the signs and item #'s could be posted instead of the sellers ID

Subject line should contain ie; Fronteir Sign [misspelled like on sign] & A Picture of the sign w description on WHY/WHAT to look for.
Posted auction # or link doesn't do any good after auction is over.
Don't see how that would be a Legality issue.
I voted no ,because of the possable legal promblems it could genarate. It would be great for the new person getting feet wet,such as I. ,I was on looking last night and some,seem to have refined the art of wording. I can't afford big signs but I understand everyone concerns.
Posted By: oldgoaly Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Tue Feb 22 2011 12:20 AM
of course the big oil companies could say everyone would have to pay royalties on each repop sign, then they could donate that money to help balance the budget or reduce the corporate handouts they get. (posted with tongue firmly planted in cheek)
Posted By: 59fairlane Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Tue Feb 22 2011 12:29 AM
I voted no because of the reasons previously stated, but there are also getting to be too many sections on this forum as there is. Just use your heads when buying. If it smells like fish and looks like fish it probably is. You can always ask questions on here.
Posted By: Jack Sim Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Tue Feb 22 2011 01:25 AM
I voted NO, I don't think we should ask Jim to so something that he has even said would be a bad idea.

I actually don't feel sorry for someone who buys a fake thinking it was an original. If he is so impulsive that he will spend 100s of dollars before asking or seeking information about his purchase, is going to learn an expensive lesson.

We all talk about going to that farm auction where someone buys a visible pump for three times its worth. Nobody says anything about going up to the guy while he bidding and telling him is making a mistake, we just write it off as a lesson in petroliania. Why should we believe that posting a name here on this site will keep someone from being fooled. Besides these sellers change their names daily.

Jack Sim
Posted By: Bud Miley Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Tue Feb 22 2011 02:38 AM
Their is already a Known and Suspect reproductions topic so I say no.
Posted By: 67Chev4X4 Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Tue Feb 22 2011 07:31 AM
Well I voted no and my reasons are this and I will probably make some people mad. The people that are selling reproductions or fantasy items are breaking no laws that I know of. I wish all of them were marked and dated it would make it nice. That idea in MHO is living in a dream world. If you could get the company to go after them on trademark infringement laws then that would be another thing. The people that collect reproductions are just as much as a collector as somebody that collects the high end stuff. I have both and proud of it. I enjoy all of it. If your in this hobby to make money lots of luck. Some will but most won't. I buy what I like and can afford. Knowledge is the key. Being a old batchelor when I die whoever can sell this junk and if they make money good for them I won't worry about it but I sure will enjoy it will I'm here. Mitch
Posted By: roadrelics Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Tue Feb 22 2011 01:01 PM
Originally Posted By: 67Chev4X4
The people that are selling reproductions or fantasy items are breaking no laws that I know of. of


I think your missing the point here....We are talking about "fraud", people who are selling "repos" as "originals"....while I have to agree that Old Gas should not be responsible for bringing these people to justice, however each of us could bring up a "rotten lying cheating theiving seller who is ripping these newbies off every day on ebay, just be a little more civil...I woke up in a great mood....LOL
Posted By: Rudy Owens Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Tue Feb 22 2011 02:25 PM
I wound up buying 3 fake pump plates from some clown at the CHips gas meet last summer. He got me for $300. Lesson learned.
Posted By: Old Iron Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Tue Feb 22 2011 03:09 PM
Interesting discussion.What I find most interesting is that none of us mentioned the problem under JJ's post,"a little advice to the new guys" much less what they can do to protect themselves at least a little bit.I wonder why?BTW,I fault myself

If I make a post under this thread referencing JJ's post "a little advice to the new guys",would that be considered hijacking a thread?There is something I think needs to be said but it may be more appropriate over there.

As to this thread,I think it is "buyer beware"and knowledge about individual pieces is the best one can hope for.
Posted By: Old Iron Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Tue Feb 22 2011 03:13 PM
Oops!!That top wasn't supposed to be there!!My bad!!
Posted By: DIESEL Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Tue Feb 22 2011 05:30 PM
I think it ought to be documented ,if there are seller's that are "CLEARLY" deceiving folk's & have made a career out of peddling un-marked signs ,and use various names to hide there real identity!"THATS A BLACKMARKET OPERATION" ,some have been addressed about there business practice & have made the decision to proceed selling unmarked signs,with no respect to the collector community!I think it would be a great source of info to the community!It really surprises me that nobody has had a infringement case brought on them yet,or.... been investigated by the us attorneys office,that is willful infringement for profit!I personally believe the bigger operations are making enough money to turn some heads at the attorney generals office!It's no differt them these folks that are knocking off Rolex's, Tommy Hilfiger ,Purse's,Perfume.....ext it's big business for some! there day will come!
Posted By: Oldgas Re: Should we have a section for Fake Sign Sellers? - Sat Feb 26 2011 03:26 PM
I just started up a new Image Gallery on Shop Talk for troublesome unmarked signs and globes.

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=21

This new gallery forum can be a good resource to look up questionable items. One picture per post. There is room for a description to point out tell-tale ways to spot that unmarked reproduction or fantasy sign or globe.

There is no room there for discussion. Keep your questions and discussions on the Unmarked Repro discussion forum.

Please - no personal attacks or name-calling on the new image gallery forum.
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