I picked up this 4-hole Veltex porcelain plate today for $30

It has the typical 60's white back, not the early 30's black background.

The corners have the comensurate wear and tear from being on a pump and I can only find the older plates for sale or the round repops so is it as I am thinking real from the 60s?

I know the real old ones have exceptional value, can anyone give me an idea on this one?

I don't think it's right. I have 2 and both have 6 grommets (3 on each side). Yours is missing the one in the middle. Probably why it was $30.

Yup mine have 6 grommets too . Oh well it didn’t cost you to much

I understand your comments, those 6-hole represent the early style pump usage by Veltex much like the early pump plates for Texaco and other gas companies which are 6-hole in that stagger pattern but change to 4 hole corner use later as other pumps came into service at stations. Veltex continued operation long enough to also require the change.

Interesting to me too, If it were a reproduction/fantasy I would expect to see a lot of them floating around offered up or discussed online not to mention shown on Oldgas as modern. Yet I searched extensively and found no mention either way.

BTW, I was able to find around 6-7 of similar 4-hole plates when I got to digging around. According to one seller, they'd had their plate since the 70s, and others had come from extensive collections.

I know there are a lot of fake plates around, yet if Veltex was reproduced by the same people especially with what they do bring, I'd expect to see them listed on those repop sites and be offered around the internet. But make the search yourself, you'll find they aren't generally anywhere.

That's why I'm looking for more than the "it doesn't have 6 holes" to establish the facts and not just conjecture. Knowing that pump plates did morph in holes and manufacture, and companies did both plates and decal sets since the 50s I'm reserving judgement. As I'm in to it cheap it's not an issue either way... but I'm the kind of guy who wants to know backstories not fables.

My question is, what's a Utah plate doing in South Carolina?

Take a look on liveauctioneers.com you will see a lot of veltex pump plates that have sold none of which have 4 holes all have 6 . Then take a look on worthpoint and you can find veltex pump plates that sold on ebay a year or so ago that do have the 4 holes . I remember when the guy was selling them . I'm not trying to insult you and I could be wrong but for now I've got to call yours fake..

A lot of people move into this region from all over the country.

We have a many decades old dealers flea market for old stuff mid-week that always brings in amazing finds. I've bought toys and advertising that travelled many miles and states and wound up here. We have one attendee who use to run the big Webster flea market in Florida for 50 years and amassed a huge collection in that time. I started attending more than 20 years ago and have picked up amazing things from all points of the compass. In it's heyday it would have 1500-2000 dealers in vintage merchandise every week with people travelling from more than 7 states and driving across country. Use to have one guy that would bring loads from Texas, currently have a fellow who hauls stuff from New York and Pennsylvania.

Finding it here doesn't surprise me much. Fletcher Oil Company shares it's name with a town just up across the NC border, so I can imagine someone bringing the pump plate back from a trip out west. In the years here I've seen Veltex occassionally along with other obscure regional brands. And Chips show in Tennessee is attended by local advertising dealers and collectors, so it's possible it came into the region that way. The seller had lots of interesting old stuff from a long time ago and prices not unreasonable.

Again, I'm still open minded about it, wanting to get as much relevant information as I can.

The dates I saw were 2017/18 from various sellers on WP, though without an account I can't say what they sold for or how many auctions they have recorded. I noted that most showed the wear and tear I'm familiar with on taking plates off old pumps, vs the faked wear seen on some plates offered as vintage.

Again, there's no definitive assumption, gathering information at this point. I'd not be unhappy either way as I paid less than I'd expect if I was restoring a pump taking the 4-hole version. I do find it odd if it were modern that there aren't pages of them on Google Search showing old defunct offerings from online stores... I run across those for other stuff I research. Instead it's WP, Invaluable in limited number. I'd even expect to see them turn up on Liveauctioneers as fake offerings at non-advertising auctions. But they don't exist there, not the first time I've struck out researching something 'sold at auction' never appearing through Liveauctioneers.

So far the responses are all the same ones I've asked myself or postulated. Using eBay sales as proof runs both ways, too. Maybe someone who has actually restored a Veltex pump from the later era will come forward and indicate "no they quit using plates" or "yes they used a 4 hole plate" but until then I'm still reserving judgement.

Sir, I am certain if I had your sign in my hand, I could show you that you sign 99% a fake or new sign. I was at Wasatch's house 25 years ago and he lives close to Idaho; therefore, sees Veltex stuff quite often. I have collected for 35+ years. I know you keep trying to talk about the few items Wasatch and I have mentioned and you want to believe you found the 1 sign that "may" be real. There are more reasons I believe the sign is fake. No split back grommets, 4 holes vs. 6, the "U.S. PATENT OFF" is the wrong font. And lastly, the bottom line is this. I would almost guaranty you the sign in not a "handout" stencil sign. That one fact "is" the proof, no questions asked. I am going to show you some pictures to prove my point. See the following pictures with green circles around the hand cut stencils for my Veltex pump signs.

The "E" circled above has very different ends and slightly crooked ends. If this were computerized it would be perfectly the same and match one another.

Look at the bottom of the "V" showing where the artist hand slipped and created the crooked line.

Hmm... so your contention is that because the sign isn't like your 6-hole version, because it's not 'hand cut', because there aren't grommets, it's fake/modern?

So let me ask you a few questions.

1) How long was Veltex gasoline in operation as stations?
2) Did Veltex stations only use pumps whose were fitted for 6 holes for all those years of operation?
3) Did you see this plate? 2019 auction plate
4) Will you agree many authentic pump plates do not have grommets as the years wore on into the 60s?
5) Do you see non-hand-cut pump plates from the 50's and 60's?

Given the relative dearth of online pictures of Veltex service stations, it's hard to identify more than just a few early and into 40's stations with older pumps and one early 50's station with orange pumps w/orange background vs white background pump decals.

As I've repeatedly stated, I'm open to relative information in either direction. I believe your comments on the dissimilarity between early 6-hole plates being hand-cut doesn't preclude later plates being made with improved quality. I studied several 6-hole Veltex plates and saw a wide variety of 'quality' to the stenciling from offset like yours to examples on Liveauctioneers selling for serious money having more professional alignment. Is poor offset proof a later better aligned plate CANNOT exist?

Most images I can find of Veltex branding are early period and do show offset. But given the brand continued for many decades the dearth of later Veltex items limits my ability to compare font and spacing. Someone who has an extensive collection with 50s & 60s era pieces can likely make the comparisons.

I am still drawn back to the dearth of 'fake/fantasy' Veltex porcelain signs online. I do see some fantasy pieces on tin. Maybe you can point me to some sites selling these modern ones?

If indeed it's of 'modern' manufacture which would be following your contention, then it's a scarce sign of small production. And if that's the case I'm fine with that being true. It would at least give me reason to value it higher than the common ones seen if/when I decide to sell it.

Anyway, the investigation continues.

All I can tell you is a few years ago I don't recall exactly when but there was someone on ebay selling Fake Veltex porcelain pump plates with 4 holes one after the other that looked exactly like yours . I complained to ebay like I used to do about fake signs but they never do anything so I gave up . I do collect Veltex whenever I can find it and all the pump plates I have ever seen have 6 grommets, Veltex has always been tough to find and very collectable . Is yours real or fake ? my minds 90% sure but you go ahead and believe what you think is right . Oh I forgot to say there is a member on here that goes by the name Veltex He is a good guy and can tell you once and for all the truth . Good Luck

Peter (aka Wasatch Man) is one whose opinion I’d take to the bank. No one’s seen everything but I remember those Veltex plates on eBay as well and they looked just like yours.

So let me ask you a few questions.

1) How long was Veltex gasoline in operation as stations?
2) Did Veltex stations only use pumps whose were fitted for 6 holes for all those years of operation?
3) Did you see this plate? 2019 auction plate
4) Will you agree many authentic pump plates do not have grommets as the years wore on into the 60s?
5) Do you see non-hand-cut pump plates from the 50's and 60's?

Important Answers below:

4) almost all repro/remade signs don't have factory split back grommets.

The answer to your MAIN question is this;

5) No. ALL pump plates from the 50's and 60's ARE hand cut stencils, period, end of story

Lastly, a friend of mine cleaned the bulk plant out when it was closed in Boise, ID. He bought all the gas pumps ($20 each) and the signs in about 1980 or 81. He took my signs off the pumps.

Good luck and I am finished sharing my opinion. FYI, I hope you discover that your sign is real, but I doubt it.

I think the experienced collectors have already said everything that needs to be said. I will add that the Veltex sign pictured that started this thread is a reproduction, Guaranteed. I think its worth every penny of $30, just enjoy it.