Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion PHILLIPS 66 - need help, real or fake???

I need some help with a sign. I own a lot of porcelain signs, but have never bought a Phillips 66. It measures 29.25"w X 29.75"h. I know some of these signs DO NOT have the Veribrite marking at the bottom (and this one does not).

This sign appears authentic, however I am second guessing its authenticity, because the black is so thin. It appears as if it scratched off, as opposed to chipped off, because it is so thin. There is almost no 'lip' between color changes.

Is this normal? Does anyone have an original of this same sign that can verify that the this black is normal, or is this a re-pop?

I don't know if there are any inconsistencies in a real vs a repop sign (letters, shapes, etc). If there are, I don't know what they are.

I can tell you the rivet holes on the sides are larger than the two at the bottom (which I don't think a repop would have different hole sizes). However, some holes may have been added later - never seen one with 4 holes.

I'm pretty sure it's real, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Please do not guess, I really could use the help here. I can ad more specific pictures, if it helps.

Thank you all,
Steve

more pics...

rivet..

I have one Steve.
Is that one 2 sided?

That the shade of orange looks way off, too red.

Also I don't think there should be grommets in the holes as these bolted to the half loops of the curb sign rack.

The color is not a problem since they changed from a lighter orange to a darker orange(late 40's -early 50's) but have had many originals but none have ever had grommets (maybe but not veribrite) same goes for the oil rack signs - no grommets IMO

Thanks for the responses so far...

Mike,
Does yours have an obvious lip where the black meets the orange, like other porcelain signs, or is it almost smooth?

I have two friends in the area, I'm gonna bring it to them to check out as well. This is the first sign I ever bought off of eBay, and now I'm wondering. I want to make a claim if it's not original.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1940s-Phillips-66-Double-sided-Porcelain-Sign-Oil-And-Gas-30-By-30-/262513478616?hash=item3d1f05cbd8%3Ag%3AMQQAAOSwOVpXfZbl&nma=true&si=XtpxfJMdOMjz99gm%252B0Mfud%252FzD9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Yes Steve mine has nice shelving between the colors. You can even see on the right side of my photo how the light is reflecting of the edge of the black outline.

U need a Texaco and Mobil experts to look at his other completed auctions as I believe IMO the Texaco sign they sold is fake.

.. ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1940s-Phillips-6...0-/262513478616

Mike, I looked at this persons completed listings and don't see a texaco sign. What sign was it exactly and how much did it sell for, then I can look it up under all completed listings.

Any other opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Steve

.. ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1933-Texaco-Porc...2-/262527215275

Ahhhhhhh craaap

Three of the morphy 66 signs tomorrow seem to have grommets. Two are veribrite, one is IR:

https://morphyauctions.hibid.com/lot/256...amp;ref=catalog

https://morphyauctions.hibid.com/lot/256...amp;ref=catalog

https://morphyauctions.hibid.com/lot/256...amp;ref=catalog

Steve,

Just a follow up to my previous response. I'm interested here because I really like these signs and hope to pick one up myself. In addition to those morphy links, my copy of Warman's "Gas Station Collectibles" shows your sign with grommets. Also, the color is pretty much spot on, taken with a grain of salt.

On the subject of color, however, I think its important to use caution when comparing colors from digital photographs. The apparent color is dependent on a number of factors including the lighting angle and type (natural, incandescent, fluorescent, LED, etc) as well as the response of the camera sensor, to some degree. In my opinion, accurate color assessment can be made only by doing a side by side comparison.

On the shelving, I'll generally defer to the more experienced petroliana collectors. But, to my knowledge, the layering on post 1940s signs is generally more subtle (I see this with some of my coke collection). I'm assuming your sign is circa 1950? My only question would be whether you would expect to see the underlying orange on some of those scratches.

Just some thoughts. Joe

Joe,

Thank you for the response. I agree on the color aspect. Not only did the color change (now I know what year it changed thanks to Preston), but I took several pictures with my camera, some turned out very different than the next (even in the same light).

The shelving is my biggest concern, as there is virtually almost none. I studied several of my signs and their chips. With that being said, ALL of my signs that have chips, are just that, chips. None have scratches. The good news is my friend has three of these signs; I am going to visit him tomorrow, and of course I will be bringing this sign to compare. I will keep you posted on my findings.

Thank you all for your comments and I welcome more of them. Hopefully these findings not only help me, but help other old gassers as well.

-Steve B.

Steve, I recently bought a Phillips 66 (dated 4-49) and made by Veribrite. It does have a small lip from black to orange. The color did change from 40's to 50's. I thought I had read somewhere the earlier signs were redish in appearance, but it could be the opposite. Veribrite were making them until early 50's and then SPS took over in the mid 50's to 60's (red/white sign). I have never seen a 30" with holes on the bottom tip but that does not mean it's not original. Maybe these holes are an add on? I did not think the bracket used for these signs had bottom holes for securing sign??