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Veeder-Root - Price Setting Problem
#755295 Mon Sep 28 2020 05:21 PM
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Hi everyone. New member here with a question that I've searched on this forum with no success, so hopefully I'm not covering well-worn ground.

While I am new to this site, I am definitely not new to restorations. I've restored a '49 Ford and a '48 Indian and a vintage race car, so while not a pro, I know which end of the wrench to use. But, doing a gas pump and especially the VR mechanical computer is all new to me.

Attached photo shows my VR with the variator section removed from the counter section. The 10 cent and 1/10 cents Rack Links are removed in the photo.

My current project is a Wayne 70 gas pump that I picked up about 25-30 years ago. It has spent most of that time inside my garage, just waiting for my attention. Thus the "works" are in pretty good shape. As a matter of fact, the gears in the variator look great and most spin in what appears to be a normal way. I say "most" because the gear that drives the counter wheels is locked solid. Will not spin. I cleaned the counter gears and they are in good condition and rotating the drive on the counter moves the money wheels easily. Even befiore I cleaned and oiled everything it reset correctly every time and as I spun the variator, the counter wheels spun correctly before I tried to reset the price per gallon. After I tried the reset, the money wheels would not spin. I am installing one of Kevin Frith's motor kits so motorize the VR. I have a service manual/bulletins with information on the Veeder-Roots, so I understand the basics of how it works and how to set the price. But, it is only basic knowledge and I'm sure I'm missing something that leads me to my dilemma.

My problem is in resetting the "Price per Gallon". As I mentioned, most of the gears in the counter appear to move correctly, both in resetting to zero, and in "delivery" mode. I understand how the price per gallon is reset by inserting the pins through the range plates and into the holes in the range lever and gear. All three range lever and gear assemblies move up and down freely on their vertical shafts. And, the Range Lever and Gear rotates properly in towards the Cone Gear, so that you can insert the Range, Lever Pin, into the desired hole in the Range Plate and into the hole in the Range Lever and gear. This is true of all three price settings - 10 cents range, cents, tenths. The problem is that once the pin is set for the 10 cent price range, it jams or locks up the entire mechanism. Either the gear on the 10 cent range or the shaft that drives the money section is jammed. But, like I said, it wasn't until I tried to reset the price per gallon. I guess I inadvertently buggered something up.

Is it possible that the Rack Links that mesh with the gears on the bottom of the price wheels are keeping the gears from rotating inward? Is there something that must be released, unlocked, loosened, etc. on the Rack Links to allow the gears that drive the money section to spin free? The Range Lever and Gears will rotate in and out, but I can't get the shaft that rotates the gears that drive the money wheels to move. Nothing I've tried seems to work.

One other thing that might shed light on this . . . When the gallon counter and money counter were both spinning (before I screwed it up) as I rotated the main drive, one gallon resulted in 16 cents showing on the money wheels while the Price Per Gallon was actually set to 34.9 cents. This was before I tried to change the price per gallon setting.

Finally, one last question; my computer does not have, nor does it appear to ever have had a bell on it. I would like to have this when I motorize it, as I remember this all too well from my old high school days. Is there a way to add this feature to my computer? If so, how, and where would I get the necessary parts ?

Hopefully one of you Veeder-Root experts can clue me in to what I need to do. Thanks for taking the time. I didn't mean to be so long-winded, but I wanted to thoroughly explain my problem. Any help you guys can give me will be very much appreciated.

Patrick

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Re: Veeder-Root - Price Setting Problem
HighOctane #755389 Fri Oct 02 2020 06:08 AM
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Hi Patrick,

If I'm reading your post correctly the variator locks up when all 3 range gears are engaged, disengage just one range gear and it's free. If that's the case then your problem is in the sun gears at the top of the variator, one or more sun gear is stuck on its pin. Heat and penetrating oil will free them up without disassembly.

You can order a bell kit off my web site; www.gaspumps.us

Tom.


Always buying gas pumps and parts.

Visit my web site: www.gaspumps.us
Buckles Vintage Gas Pump Parts LLC
Carthage Indiana
Re: Veeder-Root - Price Setting Problem
HighOctane #755405 Fri Oct 02 2020 02:14 PM
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Question for Tom - does the bell kit work with all Veeder-Root assemblies?

Re: Veeder-Root - Price Setting Problem
Rocadog #755422 Sat Oct 03 2020 07:17 AM
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Yes, as long as they are the crank backs. The semi auto reset models use a different bell setup.


Always buying gas pumps and parts.

Visit my web site: www.gaspumps.us
Buckles Vintage Gas Pump Parts LLC
Carthage Indiana
Re: Veeder-Root - Price Setting Problem
tbuckles #755580 Tue Oct 06 2020 07:42 PM
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To clarify, with the three range gears engaged and pinned, the variator will turn freely for about 1/8 of a turn and then it hits and there is a noticeable metallic “clank” and it will not turn any more. Until that clank, all gears are rotating freely including the gears on the top of the variator.

This one has me bewildered. The noise that it makes is a hard metallic clank, yet I can see nothing inside that anything is hitting. If I release, unpin the 10 cent range gear, everything turns freely. I’ll look closer at the gears on top. I’m not clear what a sun gear is, but if they are the gears on the top on the center shaft, I’ll investigate them closer.

Thanks for the reference for the bell kit. I’ll be getting one. And, thanks for the response.

Patrick

Re: Veeder-Root - Price Setting Problem
HighOctane #756142 Mon Oct 19 2020 04:11 PM
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Sun & Planetary gears in center

Brass root Nyati box 012.JPG

Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Veeder-Root - Price Setting Problem
HighOctane #756155 Tue Oct 20 2020 07:16 AM
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The problem is solved. And it comes down to my inexperience with these complicated (for me at any rate) machines. I had to remove the transmission assembly from the bottom of the variator. When you do that, the rotation is reversed. So, essentially, I have been trying to turn the shaft in the wrong direction. And, let me quickly add so that you guys don’t think I’m a complete *****, the variator was removed from the counter which means I was not able to see the price wheels turn when I tried turning the shaft in what turns out to be the correct direction.

I did not know this but on some models of pumps, my Wayne 70 included, the transmission is necessary.

Re: Veeder-Root - Price Setting Problem
HighOctane #756171 Tue Oct 20 2020 11:32 AM
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If it is an old Wayne, the gear train cuts the output revolutions of the meter in half.
Both Bennett and 4 piston Wayne meters have to be reduced by 1/2.
I do think the Wayne is reversed from the Bennett.
The gearbox / gear train on the bottom is NOT required if you run Kevin's kit.

The gear trains are for the meters, not the computers.
Take all that junk off and run it with the shaft that comes out of the Variator to get the correct rpm.
40 rpm is correct for gas pump computers @ 10 Gal per minute


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Veeder-Root - Price Setting Problem
HighOctane #756172 Tue Oct 20 2020 11:33 AM
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I rebuilt meters before I started rebuilding computers


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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