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Wiring and lights
#756961 Tue Nov 10 2020 03:27 PM
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So getting to the point with things that I want to prepare for my lights for my Gilbarco 996. The sockets are in great shape from appearances as does the light switch. The wiring also does seem to be in good shape. However, with the original wiring being done in 1949/50, I would rather not roll the dice and feel its probably smart to rewire.

So wondering if anyone has any advice or tips? What does everyone else doing? I read a few old posts where someone suggested fabricating one using an extension cord with the female end cut off to wire in.



Also, I read a few older posts where people are replacing the sockets with new ones - any opinion on just rewiring the old ones if they're in good shape?

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Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #756965 Tue Nov 10 2020 05:57 PM
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I re-wire everything and replace sockets (100% new wiring). That way there is no possibility of a crimped, frayed internal wire, and I know its safe.


-Steve B. (WTB: 48" Flying A button, 48" black/org Phillips 66, White Star, and Chevrolet Signs. Also looking for a Wayne 866. Send a PM. Thanks.)
Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #756968 Tue Nov 10 2020 06:29 PM
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I do the same as Speedracer. The hardest part is usually getting the black substance out of the conduit that was used to hold the wire in place at various points. It is a fairly toxic material and I can't remember if it was still being used when your pump was assembled at the factory. If present, it can be heated and removed but don't do it in an enclosed space.

Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #756969 Tue Nov 10 2020 06:41 PM
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I do the same as above. If the sockets have the wire soldered in I replace them if not I clean the old sockets up and reuse them. Richard

Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #756978 Tue Nov 10 2020 09:01 PM
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I can definitely confirm that the black tar substance was still in use when my pump rolled off the line. When I first opened the electrical box, I assumed it was tar used as a sealant at some point during its life cycle. Did not anticipate it was more of a standardized thing that way. Would the substance be fully and thickly lined throughout the conduit or would it be as simple as pulling the existing wiring and sliding replacement wiring through in its place? Hoping to avoid removing the substance as it sounds pretty nasty.

I hope to re-use as much as I can, but not at the expense of safety. I havent done a full inspection yet to see if the wiring is soldered onto the sockets or not. But safe to say, the main thing is removal of the old wiring. Here is probably a tough question, but does anyone know if new, replacement sockets are essentially the same design inside out or has there been some tweaks due to the passage of time?

Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #756983 Wed Nov 11 2020 06:46 AM
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I literally just finished re-wiring a Bennett 966 pump and used new sockets. Now my pump was an early 60s model but did have the black bakelite inside the conduits that I just chipped out without any problems. My sockets were not soldered and I would be surprised if they did solder them only thinking in terms of normal maintenance on parts and ease of replacement in the field but back then who knows and I can only speak for these early 60s Bennetts I have. The new sockets are the same design as the old ones but on the two conduits that light up the sides/face on my pump I used the original mounts and screwed those to the new sockets without any problems.

When I went to re-solder the original switch with new wiring, one of the tabs broke. I stole one from my next pump to be restored and was able to use that.

Edit: The reason why I used the original socket mounts was because it's easy to do and they had the required 90° angle on them whereas any of the new sockets I found were straight.

Last edited by fuelboy; Wed Nov 11 2020 06:49 AM.
Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #756985 Wed Nov 11 2020 07:35 AM
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I will reuse the sockets with a soldered connection. I leave about 1" of the original wire, solder a new wire on to the old, and place two different sizes of shrink tubing over the soldered connection. Seems to work good for me.

Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #757015 Thu Nov 12 2020 12:11 PM
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Thanks for that! I am going tomlook things over and see if theyre soldered, but will try to follow the same approach and hopefully get them to function correctly and safely too.

Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #757016 Thu Nov 12 2020 12:40 PM
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Two more things from me....

If the light socket has the 90° connection at the base, I DO re-use the metal base. I just put a new porcelain socket on that metal base (taken from a brand new straight one out of the box). That way your wiring in the socket is all sound and brand new (it’s not difficult at all). I do this with a lot of the straight sockets too. And if your trying to get the old porcelain part off with pliers, etc and it breaks, it’s no big deal, you just need to re-use the metal base is all.

The other thing I was going to say is since you are restoring a short electric pump, I assume you’re putting a globe on it.... A lot of guys, including myself, put a short piece of 1/2” conduit nipple extension, raising the lightbulb and socket into the globe a little higher. When you raise it slightly, the bulb lighting the globe isn’t down in the pump, it’s up higher, thus illuminating the globe better. I usually use a 4”, 5” or 6” extension depending on the model of pump and how far down the bulb was originally.

Hope some of that makes sense to you.
-Steve


-Steve B. (WTB: 48" Flying A button, 48" black/org Phillips 66, White Star, and Chevrolet Signs. Also looking for a Wayne 866. Send a PM. Thanks.)
Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #757152 Mon Nov 16 2020 03:22 PM
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Thanks Steve!
From the looks of things it doesn't appear to have a 90 degree connection. I havented ripped things open as of yet to confirm. But I see what you mean on finding a replacement if thats the case. I have been really considering buying a new socket and swapping what I can to make use of as much of the original as possible that way.

That's a good tip on the extension for the globe. At the moment I am not planning on a globe since the pump never had one when it was in service for my great aunt. However I am very much in love with those Shell clamshell globes, so I may yet change my mind. If I go that route, your tip would be invaluable! I did have a thought - with LEDs now and a lot of specialty bulbs being made, there isn't a raised bulb or an elongated bulb that would also work? I figure there might be something out that that has a long neck with a bunch of LEDs on it.

Andrew

Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #757167 Mon Nov 16 2020 09:19 PM
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I have seen the 90° connections available recently. A little pricey tho. I think just using a modern LED bulb will make a lot of difference in the amount of light directed compared with standard filiment bulbs.

Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #765190 Thu Jun 24 2021 07:45 PM
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So it has been too long (have a 1 year old will do that!) and I am back at things. I have removed all three sockets by cutting through the wiring. Turns out the sockets are soldered to the wiring and of course, they have bakelite right up and into the solder points. Bah!
So as much as it pains me to say, I am going to go with a pair of new sockets. The third (being for the globe) I am going to leave original as I am sticking with not having a globe.


I have the wiring free and loose, but stuck in the conduit. Is heating it up and melting it the only way or has anyone heard of using an acid or something along those lines? I ask because I was putting some Draino down the shower pipe the other day and got to thinking that surely there must be some chemical that can be poured down which eats or loosens the bakelite up enough to deal with it and in a controlled, safe manner. Not really sure how much I want to be trying to melt out 4-5 feet of bakelite!

Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #765214 Thu Jun 24 2021 11:05 PM
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Melting it out using a torch works really really well, just dont breath the fumes. I cant think of any solvent that would work. I think you'll find its not 4-5 feet full, but just a small section of the tube. Hanging the tube from the wires or having pliers on it so you can pull on the wires when heated works for me.


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Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #765242 Fri Jun 25 2021 10:14 AM
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If you do some searching you'll find that heating up bakelite can be very dangerous so heed those warnings as best you can! I found on mine it was no problem at all to just chip away at it. If I found it was in a hard to reach area I'd do my best to replace the conduit altogether if possible just to avoid messing with it but i've only found it inside the junctions, switch or socket areas on mine.

Set of different flat blade screwdrivers and a small hammer to just chisel away and dump.

I've done a Bennett 966 and Tokheim 39 short and on both this method worked well.

Re: Wiring and lights
red_green17 #765479 Fri Jul 02 2021 01:39 PM
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Thanks gents for the advice.
I was troubled by the potential danger that could be from heating bakelite and have been hoping there would be a safer solution. I would try chipping it out (I successfully and easily did this for where it was on the rings and the porcelain around the sockets when i pulled them out), but my conduit has a bend 3/4th of the way up which woudl prevent that (a big reason why I don't really want to replace it either).I may try chipping a bit on the idea that there was a bit at the top and bottom to seal things in, but if it is all the way through, its going to be a problem.

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