Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Aumann vs. Matthews

Dan is a great guy. I have a feeling he probably did not feel properly compensated or appreciated while working for the Aumans.

I enjoyed both of them at our hospitality BBQ and beverage party at our place 2 years ago. They were having an auction for Bill Wilson in Hempstead, TX. and we hosted the get together party Friday night and had over 120 collectors present.

I had heard that the automobilia/gas and oil auctions were 40% of the Aumans business.

Dan was still working for Mathews at the time. I enjoyed both of them.

If I was going to hold an auction I would use Dan Mathews. Helpful,knowledagble, passionate and above everything else...honest.

I guess I need to chime in on this one myself. I have been through this as everyone on here knows. It is harmful to the hobby as a whole but we all need to realize one thing. It is all about money. Anytime anyone sues it the reason can usually be traced back to the all mighty dollar. I was sued twice and realized early on that no good would come from it but had to stick in there not only to protect my family financially, but for my own reputation in the hobby and piece of mind. I know Dan, he is a straight up guy, never met Kurt in person so can't speak with athourity. I do hope Aumann realizies that filing a lawsuit will probably do more to harm their reputation than help their wallet. For Dan's sake, I hope that it is resolved quickly. If not, look out for alot of attorney's bills. In the end, who wins? Answer ---- The attorneys.

I have mixed feelings on this subject. I have attended both auctions and have met both auctioneers and they both seemed genuine. Overall I think they're the relatively similar in their operations. However, I know if I was going to sell my collection, there's only one person I'd give it to....and that's Seth
However, if the allegations are true that Dan ran off with Aumann's mail list, he probably should be sued. I think it would be comparable to working for Coca-Cola and upon quitting the company stealing their secret formula and then setting up a cola company. Nice guy or not, You just don't do that. Just my opinion, maybe I was raised differently.
I do agree that the big winners here will be the attorneys.
I knew I should have went to law school.
-Mike

[This message has been edited by Gold Seal Oil (edited 11-24-2007).]

Trade secrets are a nasty thing. I went to work for a competitor and my previous employer served notice that I was not to talk to past customers, solicit them or any anyway speak against my past employer.

If aumann's mailing list was used or if current clients were solicited to use Matthews services, he could be in trouble. The thought behind the law is that while employed at Aumman they paid for those 'leads' and using them for his personal gain is a no no. Not saying that is what happened just putting some context around the sour grapes.

Now we all should not (but we will) speculate about the various agreements in place between the two parties but I am sure the courts will.

I like the idea about reaching out to aumman individually and sharing our disdain for the lawsuit however at this point unless they received communication from 70% or more of their clients it probably will have little effect. Aumman most likely has written off the gas and oil collectors and is now just looking for $$ damages.

In the end who will prevail? Not many, perhaps the lawyers...

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Scott Wright-
http://www.frontrangegas.com/powerine.htm

I have not seen any paperwork on this suit.

But . . . how hard is is to put together a "mailing list" of petroliana collectors.

Shoot, most of us here have our e-mail address attached to each and every posting.

And if Dan ran two or three auctions - he'd end up with most (if not all) of the big hitters just thru auction registration.

I do know that we had to register at the first Matthews auction we attended - so our info was not already in his computer files.

Oh well.

Later . . .

Jim

T-Way...a lot harder than you think. I've had 11 auctions and each & every year there are multiple long-time collectors that "just heard" about my auction and weren't on my mailing list which at last count was hovering around the 22,000 mark. There are lots of closet collectors/big-time buyers out there that wouldn't know Aumann from Dan from any of the rest of us for that matter. A good mailing list is priority ONE for specialty auctions.

Also...heavy-hitters, while paramount to the success of an auction aren't the only demographic that drives up prices. I've got buyers that come to my sale every year that may only buy a few things, but bid on literally half the lots. So you need a large & diverse list. Anyway, IF this deal is over their mailing list, I would think that it would be difficult to prove, wouldn't it??

[This message has been edited by Seth Robbins (edited 11-24-2007).]

Seth.... Are you saying that some people collect closets????? O.K. I'll shut up, and be good now.

Maybe they have skeletons in their closets, or they need to come out of the closet....now I'LL shut up & be good.

I don't want to speculate on this suit, and I know neither party. But, if it is about mailing lists, Aumans could sue over "intellectual property". This is not unusual in sales jobs. You often agree to sign a preemployment agreement that you won't take or use company information, including mailing lists in another job. It really isn't that hard to prove either. The plaintiff (guy suing) will ask and receive a copy of the defendant's mailing list for comparison. If the defensant tries to delete it, then you have obstruction issues. But that is geting ahead of things. Another way is for the plaintiff to mail to hsi mailing list a questionaire asking if they have recieved any mailings from the defendant. Doesn't take many to prove a pattern. In order for it to be a "noncompete" issue, they are usually in writing in a preemployment agreement and usually have a time frame attached to it. I said more than I planned (so what else is new??) I hope it all works out for all involved.

One other quick thing, if it is not settled quickly, the hobby is in for a long wait. The wheels move extrememly slowly in civil action. The two suits I was involved in took a total of 4 years. If Matthews fights it, the thing could drag on forever. Again, who wins, the attorneys.

Been to both auction houses and Matthews' is by far the better of the two. He is easier to deal with, much more personable than Kurt.

Maybe it was true that Kurt was getting a little too big for his britches as several collectors have commented to me lately

Actually, we'd better be careful what we say here or WE may be drug into a slander suit......

I think we need both Auctions houses in this hobby. Neither one is perfect and I've had issues with both. However, healthy competion is a wonderful thing. When Dan started his business, shipping cost dropped and delivery time was cut from 30 days to less than a week.

A small issue, when compared to bigger ones such as repops and fakes being offered for sale these days. In the end, the perfered auctions house will be the one that has both the integrity and expertize to deal with this issue. Not being sure about an item really holds me back when it comes to bidding. Just my opinion, but I would have to give the nod to Seth as being the best at handling this one.

I hate to say it, but Dan may have another problem. Seller's may be hesitant to list items with him until the suit is settled. Especially after we saw another auction house in Pennsylvania go backrupt a few years ago and leaving the consignors holding the bag. Hopefully some sort of bonding service or other assurance is available to him.

[This message has been edited by MarkMcK (edited 11-25-2007).]

There is no perfect way to have an auction, especially with absentee & online. I've made both buyers & sellers angry...therein lies the problem. Buyers want you to be honest to a fault & sellers want you to be "creative" in your assesment. It's a very fine line. Overall, the good outways the bad and I'll continue (Feb. 16th 2008) to have my once a year deal. Hopefully this deal will blow over and everyone can get back to biz as usual.

Midway is right. I know both Aumann's and Matthews read this forum. I'm certain they have been tipped off about this topic.

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Jim "Oldgas" Potts
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