Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion First Pump restoration

hello to all,
first let me say that this is a great forum with lots of information, help, and advice. I just purchased a complete Bennett 956 which had been removed from a working station in the early 70's and has been sitting in dry storage in a pole barn for over 25 years. In reading lots of posts here, I have been starting the restoration by first removing the pump and motor,and have now removed the Veeder Root. Because the pump has been stored in Alberta where it is predominately dry (and cold in the winter) no bolts were seized, and the pump has come apart remarkably easy. The computer is stiff, but turns with the use of a large bladed screwdriver in the reducing mechanism at the base, and resets as well, using the same screwdriver. My questions are with regards to the VR cleaning.... while I have admired the work of Mr. Yocom, I believe that shipping the computer across the border and back would be extremely expensive, so I am going to attempt to do it myself... should I remove the gear reduction unit from the base of the VR before soaking the unit in Simple Green? shouldi separate the two halves of the VR before soaking? Any other advice to how to clean the unit?

Many Thanks

more pics...

First off, Welcome to Old Gas!

In My Opinion!

Do not remove anything from the VR. Just use liberal amounts of WD40 or any brand you choose to really free it up. Not many of us are up to the tricks of Joe Yocum.

Enjoy the site and keep posting.

Larry

Larry,

thanks for the reply... so it's not good to soak the VR in Simple Green?

Chris

WD-40 & air hose should clean it up.
IF you don't want to send to Joe, DON'T take it apart ! I threw the 1st one I took apart away & bought another to use. I do change out the wheels when bad, just for the challenge !
db

Simple green is good also. Just free it up

Larry

I highly recommed WD40 or PB Blaster! Those wheels don't come off voluntarily! I will be posting pics of my first Veedor Root Restoration from a Bennett 966 and trust me it ain't easy. You really have to examine the entire mechanism and realize what each piece does and take pictures before you take it apart. I didn't but luckily I have a good memory. Good luck, just take your time.

Welcome to the site. As Larry and Dick have said, might be better to leave the V-R complete and work on it "from the outside". I tried "Simple Green, WD-40 and Kroil", when cleaning my pump. For me "Kroil" worked the best. Also, if using an air hose remember to turn the air down, funny(NOT) how small items go "sailing" in gale force winds, LOL. Once small springs and "keepers" go flying it is next to impossible to keep track of them(again experienced)as they bounce around a garage.

Really appreciate all the advice... in reading posts on the VR and on cleaning most seem to suggest just separating the two halves and cleaning, which was my plan... I wasn't figuring on tearing it down, but following the advice to do an "outside" clean... still curious as to whether or not the gear reduction unit can be emersed or just sprayed..Rick really interested in seeing those pics! Bob, thanks for the advice on the air...

Chris

When your ready to use the air, put the VR in a bucket or tub. Don't want the WD-40 [or what ever] all over the place & IF something does come off, easier to find.

Welcome aboard. I do understand wanting to do a restoration but that pump looks very good as is too. I know, that pretty lubester is teasing the pump.
Mike

There is nothing wrong w/ emersing the bottom,just take the wheels off first, there are springs under the "keepers" under the price wheels...that is about your only concern as to flying parts there. A day or so covered in penetrating oil like wd will help loosen the grime BEFORE you degrease it.
Purple stuff 2 gallons to 3 gallons water is a good soaking ratio,,,,,2-3 days check twice a day, when chemical is fresh.
It will take the finish off the wheels though. It is slightly caustic I beleive, and will attack the aluminum wheel shells over long period.
If you are not going to motorize it take the gear train off , it will allow the computer to set flat on the workbench....
would say more but I have to go fix a tranny.

May not be the safest, but I could see putting the whole meter in a 5 gal bucket with lid and shaking it with your mix of degreaser / water like an improvised washing machine. Periodically you could activate the mechanisms to loosen and rinse away debris and contaminants. When you're done you dry it with compressed air then strategically spray white lithium grease with an extension hose/tip in each gear and wear point. The only party concerning is any weak parts that are made of aged plastic etc... I agree on not taking it apart, that'd be like trying to rebuild your own Swiss watch even though it still ticks.

Again, I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and feedback.... Joe, thank's for the tip about the springs... I was planning on motorizing the VR, so I'll leave the gear drive attached.. I'm going to start out with a good washing, then spraying with WD40, then move to soaking if required.. I'll post some pictures of progress... Chris

You can motorize w/wo bottom gear reducer, depending on rpm of motor used.

thanks Dick... I hope to tackle the first degrease this weekend based on everyones advice, and will post some more pictures...Chris

If you motorize it, I can sell you a coupling to mount directly to the input shaft on the bottom and it will eliminate the train that will cause more friction and wear on the motor.

Take pictures of what and how it comes off !!!
lay things out as they go back together...
If you have a "reference" computer it will help....one to compare it to.

thanks Joe, I'd like to motorize it, and would like to purchase a coupling from you.... I've separated the two havles, and they are both soaking in degreaser right now... I first cleaned them a little with a nylon brush to carefully loosen the dirt, dead insects, and the small wasp nest that was in the variator. Took several before pictures that I'll post later tonite...

Chris

yes, that is one I failed to mention ....
It's good to brush or scrape & spray it off w/ water before imersing it, that will keep the degreaser from having to work as hard, and loose potency.

My favorite critters are the mummified "twisty rats".
Mice that get caught by surprise when the pump is used and get twisted around the range arms or cone gear, dry out, then get coated in oil.
MMMMMMMMMM, MMM.
Once I found one in a variator that was about 6-8 inches long.

Nice... you win that one Joe... I only found a lot of dead insects... so...here's the results of a couple of days of degreasing in a Rubbermaid storage bin (seems to be perfect size, and hopefully goes unnoticed as missing), scrubing and rinsing... followed up with a low pressure shot of air hose, then a liberal spraying of WD40 in another Rubbermaid storage bin... some wipe down and detailing... first some before pictures as a reminder...

Now the after shots...

and some more...

and here was the coolest discovery... under all the dust, grime and dirt, some of the original silk screened instructions on the VR survived, including the slogan "The Head For Figures" thanks to everyone's advice, particularly Joe... it runs, counts and resets like it was made yesterday...

Chris

check the variator by turning it from underneath, make sure all parts move freely.
Return the head to the variator and try to reset it.
If it resets correctly, you are in luck.

Still, try rolling the smaller shafts that hold the plastic pinion gears and the 3 shafts that hold aluminum gears, making sure all the pinions & shafts and gears & shafts turn independantly.

If you have to heat anything be carefull...that stuff melts quick
LOOKS GOOD

Thanks Joe... the variator spins freely, and when you turn it upside down, the setting pins drop out of place with gravity, and will slide in either direction... it is very free... I'm going to assemble the two halves tomorrow night, after I clean the small price wheel gears and the two remaining flat levers for the top of the variator... all the smaller shafts and the three shafts that hold the aluminum gears all turn independantly... I don't think this pump saw very much use, just given the condition of the VR...
Chris

VR's were changed out as they wear out [approx every year to year & a half], depending on usage. Sometimes the total gallon counter also had to be changed if the gears stripped. Very seldom will you have the VR that was installed at the factory. Same with the nozzle.

So did you use simple green or ??? I have a computer that looks like yours and would like to know your product choice.

Something ony a computer freak ( me no geek )would notice........

That variator has been modified... if you notice there are chains & pins for the 10ths increment plate and the 10's and cents increment plates have slots and pins for the adjustments.
It has been changed to have the capability to go to 99.9 from the original 49.9.

Also the style of the price wheel numbers are different....
look at the # 9 in the 10's range and the 9 on the cents and 10ths range.... they are different in style. When modifying a limited to a full range the tens wheel is the only one that NEEDS to be changed.

I have plenty of price wheels now, thanks to Morgan, if you wish to have them all look the same. They would all 6 be the same style as the 10's price wheel.

Now why didn't you catch all that DB.....getting slow huh?..lol

It is very possible the modification was done in the 70's when cost was over a dollar and the need for 1/2 pricing forced them to modify that computer.
It may or may not be the original.

I don't know how many of you know this but all the 4" bells on Veeder Root computers have and offset hole in the center.
That is so the bell can be adjusted by rotaing, to ring louder or softer.
Most clock bells are the same way.

Joe,
"Something ony a computer freak ( me no geek )would notice"
And it took you 14 Hours to notice ? LOL

I don't know if I should step in here or not

(Joe, I'm just wondering how you managed to make it to my shop, examine the VR and return back to GA in that short of time...) Dick, the VR is in such good shape, you must be right, or this pump was in some back water for it's life... Joe, not until you mentioned it did I remember the doubling of the pump price days....remember when gas would go up 2 cents a gallon and it made the front page?

Ryan, I used Simple Green, at about a 3 to one ratio with water, water being the higher volume... even though it is all natural (whatever that means) it is still corrosive, and you need to keep an eye on stuuf, particularly the aluminum tins... hopefully more work tonite, pics tomorrow...

Chris

Ok, back together, except for the covers.... runs by spinning the lower gear on the variator with two fingers...resets without effort... thanks to everyone who suggested and commented.. more to follow... Chris

What can I say DB...
I may be slow but at least I am consistant at it
I like to PACE my brain.

Chris,I will try to find the stuff you aked about today.
Gotta find a new oil pan for my truck too.

SO WHAT WAS THE GREEN LIQUID YOU CHOSE TO SOAK IN????

Simple Green power washer degreaser concentrate, in a three to one mix with water (water being the three)...

See above post...

"Ryan, I used Simple Green, at about a 3 to one ratio with water, water being the higher volume... even though it is all natural (whatever that means) it is still corrosive, and you need to keep an eye on stuuf, particularly the aluminum tins... "

switched to cleaning up the porcelein.... first a wash in soap and water, then cleaned with Nevr Dull Cotton Wadding, then two coats of automotive liquid wax... next step is dismantaling the sheet metal...

..and one more...

here's an update.... After doing the VR, I completely disassembled the pump, sandblasted the frame, base and sheetmetal, painted these parts, and have started reassembling the pump... (painting outside is a pain)....

Chris

red is my favorite flavor !!!!

Lookin' Good!! Keep us updated with more Pictures...

here's an update... have been slowly restoring and then installing all the mechanicals... just waiting on a new hose...

here's a few more...

and now starting to assemble the first tin...

toady's progress...

Lets see a Picture of the Car under the Cover Too....

this is the one right next to the pump....

and here's the rest...

WoW!!!!

That charger is bitchin.

thanks guys... 4 years work on the T and 2 on the Charger...
here's a video my buddy did of the Charger..

http://www.vimeo.com/1595049

here are a few pictures of some further progress... received the hose, glass and weatherstrip of Friday... installed the glass in the doors, brought the pump downstairs from the shop(before it got too heavy), installed the hose and nozzle, the crank side sheet metal, all the hinges and door trim and finally the doors... just need a globe and door signs...

One more a little closer...

Looks Great, now you just need to pick yourself up a Globe for the top and a Decal for the Door.

been missing for a while (reading not posting) and realized I hadn't posted a finished picture... Happy Holidays to all...

Chris

Looks Great!!

Very nice rides & pump. You should be proud of those babies

thanks gents