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#148967 Tue Aug 18 2009 02:14 PM
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Bernie Offline OP
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What are these holes for? confused

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Bernie
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Bernie #148968 Tue Aug 18 2009 02:21 PM
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NOT %100 POSITIVE BUT BEST I RECALL THERE WAS A SMALL BRACKET THAT MOUNTED UNDERNEATH THAT WOULD HOLD THE AIR LINE,LIGHT WIRES ETC.THE TIP OF THE BOLTS WOULD COME THROUGH THESE HOLES SLIGHTLY.THE HOLES ARE THREADED.I HAVE SEEN THIS ON SEVERAL BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.HOPE THIS HELPS.MARK

MARK SMITH #148999 Tue Aug 18 2009 07:19 PM
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I have owned over 300 Eco air meters, and have never seen these holes before. I don't think they are factory, probably somebody felt that they were need for something.

Is you wall mount cast iron, or aluminum?

Jack Sim
Author, Air Meter Identification book and


Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available
Jack Sim #149001 Tue Aug 18 2009 07:34 PM
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Bernie Offline OP
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Cast iron.


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Bernie #149009 Tue Aug 18 2009 08:17 PM
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I have over 300 pieces of ECO literature and have restored over 100 ECOs and none of it shows anything about these holes. They were probably drilled by someone at the service station level, they are not factory. Think about it, if they were factory, why doesn't every wall mount have these holes in them?

Jack Sim

Last edited by Jack Sim; Tue Aug 18 2009 08:19 PM.

Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available
Jack Sim #149013 Tue Aug 18 2009 08:39 PM
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Thanks.


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Bernie #149034 Wed Aug 19 2009 06:07 AM
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Bernie,May not have been factory as Jack said.I can tell you that I have had at least one and possibly two other meters with the same holes.As I said earlier it was to hold a small bracket in place.I assumed the bracket was to hold light wires or the air line although it did not have anything running through it when I bought it.I routed the light wires through it and left the bracket in place. The last one I had I ground the tips of the bolts off before I painted it so that it was smooth on the visible side.I have sold the meter with the bracket and can't send you any pictures. Did you check to see if the holes were threaded.I know they were on mine(they did not have nuts on the top side).There was definitely more than one meter that had the holes.They may have all been from the same location and the dealer or jobber went to a lot of extra work for such a small improvement.None of the meters I have now have the holes.It is not common to the meters as Jack said. Mark

MARK SMITH #149113 Wed Aug 19 2009 08:38 PM
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Thanks Mark,

The holes are indeed threaded. I wonder if this is a trait of Canadian meters? Either Canadian-made or made for the Canadian market.

In addition to the holes, the face plate on mine has the names of 4 Canadian cities; and the upper and lower chrome pieces on the front have screws on the outside (one on the top piece and 2 on the bottom piece) that screw into a fitting on the inside of the cover. An obvious factory-done feature. Apparently, this is not the norm (at least for US meters). I can supply pics of this if need be.

Lastly, the serial number is not a standard US format: 8325E3

It originally came out of a big corporate garage here in Ottawa.

Last edited by Bernie; Wed Aug 19 2009 08:40 PM.

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Bernie #149218 Thu Aug 20 2009 06:35 PM
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i have had ecos that have screws holding the chrome on and it definetly was not factory, unless it was the hillbilly factory. mine looked like selfdrilling screws just bored into the chrome. i dont know about yours, just speaking about my own experiences. chris

cggas #149221 Thu Aug 20 2009 07:17 PM
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Hillbilly factory??? "I don't think so Tim". grin

Here are a few pics. Note that the holes in the cover are threaded with recepticles on the rear of the cover to accept the screws; the size, thread and type of screws all match; the holes in the chrome pieces are perfect. This doesn't look like it was done by a hillbilly. whistle

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Bernie #149243 Thu Aug 20 2009 09:38 PM
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I've had 3 eco's and all mine are 1 screw on the top and 2 screws on the bottom to hold the covers on. check the glass on this eco of mine. air - water

mobil100 #149244 Thu Aug 20 2009 09:57 PM
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That is a very cool meter!! smile What is the serial number?

Since you are also located in Canada, this gives credence to my theory that these "external screw" models were either Canadian-made or made for the Canadian market. I am by no means an air meter expert but there has to be a logical explanation for these anomalies other than they were done by individuals.

These are the differences from the norm that I have noticed:

1- mine has a non-standard serial number: 8325E3
2- the upper and lower chrome pieces on the front are held onto the cover by screws driven from the outside
3- the holes in the chrome pieces are machine made as opposed to hand drilled
4- there are threaded "washers or grommets" attached to the inside of the front cover to receive the screws holding these 2 chrome pieces
5- the original colour is white as opposed to red
6- the face plate has the names of 4 Canadian cities on it as opposed to US cities
7- the threaded holes in the wall mount are not the norm

One has to ask why the screws were driven in from the outside. Well a very simple answer would be to be able to change a broken glass without having to take both the front and back covers off. By removing the three screws on the front, the glass could be changed easily and quickly. Perhaps we had more "juvenile delinquents" up here than in the US. grin


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Bernie #149246 Thu Aug 20 2009 11:40 PM
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OK guys, you can come up with all the different ways chrome is held on, all the dirrerent ways the glass has different wording on them, but.....

About ten years ago I had access to the files of the Bennett Pump Company in Muskegon, Mich. They told me take what you want.
I know it sounds like bragging, but I have the largest collection of original ECO literature known.

There is not one piece of literature that I have (from 1947 to 2007) that shows any piece of chorme coming from the factory with hole in it to hold it on. This was done by people who service the ECOs, and the easiest way to put the chrome back on the meter was to drill holes and use bolts. Remember, guys, these were not show pieces, these were pieces of equipment that the service station owner didn't give a s.... about. Why, becauwe he had to purchase a piece of equipment in order to give something away, free.
If he left the meter on all night so his customers could use it when the station was closed, customers would throw the hose back toward the meter, and if it missed, it left the meter on, and if there was just one small leak in the system, his air compressor ran all night.
Then there were the customers that drove over the hose on the ground.
Then there was the customer that threw the hose back toward the meter, but missed, he hit the glass with the chuck.
Then there was the customer that came by and unscrewed the hose and took it with him.
This is why, when you find a "so called restorable ECO meter" it looks so bad. The service stations owners did not like them, they did not maintain them (such as draining the water), they just didn't care about them.

I have over 60 of them in my garage, and you wouldn't belive the conditions they are in.

Bernie:
1. Yes, it appears that ECO were made in Canada and they used a different numbering system.

2. No ECO chrome was ever offered from the factory with holes in it.

3. See No. 2.

4. Every early ECO had white fiber washers. Two under the Emblem plate, two under the Scuff plate, four under the screws holding the face on, four under the screws holding the rear cover on. Plus, if the unit is a very early one, there were four screws that held the Bezel on, they also had four white fiber washer under them. This was dropped early on as unnecassary. (I still have a quantity of NOS white washers that I use on the restored units I sell).

5. Most ECOs were sold out of local equipment dealers warehouses. You owned a station, you decided you needed a air meter. You didn't call the pump companies, you called the people who came out and serviced your station. You called them, said you were interested in a air meter. They sent out a salesman, he might bring a salesman sample (to see one, see my Air Meter Identifiation book), most likely he would just bring a bunch of brochures with him. Actually, his company might be a dealer for more than just the ECO, he might bring brochures for the Arno,or the Gilbarco meters also (see my website for pictures). He would show you all the different air meters that were available. You made your choice, he went back the the warehouse, they sent out someone who would install the air meter for you. Regardless, when he opened the box, no mater what company, the meter was RED. Now, if you were Mobil, and you wanted to purchase one ECO for every Mobil staion in Canada, you went to Bennett direct. The first question they would ask was "What color do you want?" I know from experiance that both Mobil and Marathon purchased a great number of ECO Model 90 Series Air meters and they were all white! I know, bucause I once purchased 80 white ECOs that were once used in Marathon stations.
6. Yes, because Service Station Equipment Company had a factory in Canada.
7. Yes, not the norm, just some bogus thing that was done to a few meters. I have, again, over 10 different ECO parts manuals, dating from 1947 to 2007, and none of them show any holes in the wall mount.

And, you are correct, the easiest way to repair them and get back to that brake job.

Today, there are people selling lights that attach to the pedestal, and ECO signs that attach to the pedestal. Twenty years from now, there will be people convinced that these are original.

I try and be very relaxed about the ECO. The dealer didn't like them, they didn't do any maintaince on them. The customers didn't apprecate them and mis-used them. The repairs to them were done at the lowest cost. The service station owner made more money using his floor jack than he ever did from the ECO.

One more thing, not many people know, but most of the rebuilds I do for old ECOs are not from restorers, but from service stations that still have them and are still using them. I have also sold completely restored units to service stations for everyday use.

Jack Sim


Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available
Jack Sim #149260 Fri Aug 21 2009 06:06 AM
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Bernie Offline OP
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Jack,

Thank you for taking the time to provide us with this most informative and researched exposé on vintage ECO air meters. Your expertise in and experiences with them are a service to all of us.

Your points explain some of the anomalies, but perhaps not all.

Quote:
1. Yes, it appears that ECO were made in Canada and they used a different numbering system.

Could Canadian-made air meter factories not have deviated from the "screwless" chrome front pieces as an efficiency upgrade for their service technicians? These holes are very straight and cleanly executed so do not look like they were made by a manual drill. It is well known that many countries adopt small changes in their manufacturing process to suit their clients/environment.

Quote:
2. No ECO chrome was ever offered from the factory with holes in it.

No ECO chrome was ever offered from US factories. But what about Canadian factories?

Quote:
4. Every early ECO had white fiber washers. Two under the Emblem plate, two under the Scuff plate, four under the screws holding the face on, four under the screws holding the rear cover on.

These are not washers in the typical sense but threaded metal "lugs" welded onto the back of the front cover to accept the screw. Attachment to the rear of the front cover is expertly done with no welds.

Quote:
6. Yes, because Service Station Equipment Company had a factory in Canada.

Do you have any documentation/literature on the Canadian factories that might explain these anomalies?

Quote:
7. Yes, not the norm, just some bogus thing that was done to a few meters. I have, again, over 10 different ECO parts manuals, dating from 1947 to 2007, and none of them show any holes in the wall mount.

Again, any literature from the Canadian factories?

Quote:
I try and be very relaxed about the ECO. The dealer didn't like them, they didn't do any maintaince on them. The customers didn't apprecate them and mis-used them. The repairs to them were done at the lowest cost. The service station owner made more money using his floor jack than he ever did from the ECO.

It's a wonder any of them survived at all. shocked

Do you know where the Canadian factories were located?

Again, thanks for your replies.


Bernie
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Bernie #149319 Fri Aug 21 2009 01:39 PM
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canada also had clear vision pumps , just because someone only has literature on american clear vision pumps, It doesn't mean that canadian pumps are bogus. I've had a b/a- a huskey-and a texaco all like this. think of this as a learning expericence, thats the great thing thing about this site you learn things. someone once said bennett didn't have nozzles with bennett cast on them, well I have one. remember canada also had bennett pumps, as well as eco meters

Last edited by mobil100; Fri Aug 21 2009 02:21 PM.
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