Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk

Ok I know we have been over this before – but I am at a crossroad.

I am working on a very, very, very heavy Bennett 756 electric low boy that is all 100% original. Most of the pumps I come across have had parts pulled and moved around inside, so the insides are broken up or not original in any way, these I just gut every time.

I was going to gut this Bennett 756 I am working on today, but after getting it all open and skinless I noticed under the dirt that the motor, totalizer, and pump have a real nice cast iron Bennett stamp on them with lots of art deco lines on the pumping unit – you can tell this pump has never been taken apart or messed with before – even the belt looks original. The pump is not broken and turns free – I am not sure if it runs or not.

I can not stop thinking that someday people will say “I can not believe how dumb you guys were – what were you thinking when you were pulling all that out and throwing it away!” I think about this every time I go to this local antique store and see his pumps for sale – he cuts everything out of them, even the light switch – the guy says “it does not matter people just put a flip switch on it”… yea not me, I always get my switches working again just like they should – so I never buy from him just because of that – and I know I am not alone with that feeling. It is kind of what we say when we find a visible that someone has “removed the pump in to make it lighter” or when we hear about someone using NOS glass white eagles for target practice while they were lined up on their fence “true story I heard first hand”…

What do you guys think about this? Is it possible that in the process of gutting these few all original pumps “that could run again” we will destroy the value in these pumps in the future?


Travis
Topeka, Kansas

I feel, that a Tokheim 36B, and a Wayne 60, is the dividing line as far as gutting a pump. Somebody else made that point here, so its not mine, but I do agree with it.

BTW. Do you have a spare low speed drum?

Thunder - what year do you need for that drum? I might have a 26 here that has been bead blasted and dye checked - crack free - but that is a big "might" - I would have to toss through 40+ box's of Model T Parts to find it "if it is still here".


Travis
Topeka, Kansas

I put all my restored pumps in my house and cut the pumps out for a couple of reasons: A) I don't want the extra weight to carry around, B) I don't want a pump in my house that still has traces of old gas in it. I feel funny about having full NOS oil cans in my house. When's the last time you opened the door or took the panel off your restored pump just to look at the guts? As far as value, I don't sell any of my restored items. Just my 2 cents worth.

I always though those Bennett guts look cool and wanted to clean and paint one even if it did not go back in the pump. In the end they always ended up getting scapped.

If the pump is non restored leave them in....some might want them plus it makes them harder to steal.
The only way I would have guts in, in MY house would be to totally disassemble, clean and if I was going to all that trouble I would rebuild it so it COULD work.....
Remember these thing have had LIQUID lead in them...TOXIC....
It's a wonder after all the leaded gas I have had on my hands, for years and years, that I still have hands.

TT
IF your thinking a BENNETT 756 is a very very very Heavy pump, then your getting to OLD to be moving any pump !

I rebuilt gas pumps for the major oil companies from 1958-1980 as a private contractor... We had a shop where we rebuilt gas pumps and replaced all the parts with original equipment and later with after market rebuilt parts.. Some of the pumps that came from the factory painted yellow ended up being painted red, or green or blue, depending on the company involved. These pumps got switched around from company to company and from colour to colour and the inside parts where sometimes from the original manufacturer and sometimes from a jobber.. I guess what I'm saying is, gas pumps are not like vintage corvettes etc. with matching numbers. Don't get too particular with parts and paint as I would be willing to bet that less than 2% of the people that will buy or own these pumps some day won't care. Maybe I've been around this stuff too long, but the younger generation that MIGHT be interested in this stuff and I say MIGHT, won't know the difference or will they care. Just my older generation opinion, LOL !!

...I couldn't disagree more...'don't worry about doing it right because no one will care in the future' is a total cop-out...I think one day gutted pumps and over- or incorrectly-restored pumps will be seen as inferior to authentic, complete, historically accurate restorations...think of all of the short, chrome top GOC pumps that had holes cut in the tops so that globes could be added...does anyone really think those pumps are or will ever be as valuable as ones restored correctly, that match the pumps in old station photos?

...to me 'pump guts' are no different than the engines in those Corvettes...a LOT of car collections sit in museums and aren't driven...yet they don't take parts off the cars to make them lighter - or more 'environmentally-friendly'...

...if we want the hobby - and (sigh) everyone's 'investments' - to be taken more seriously in the long run, we simply must take the historical accuracy of the items in our collections more seriously...

...a hypothetical for you guys to chew on: you go to a gas show, and get invitations to view two collections that night - but you can only see one...all things being equal, the only difference is one guy is a stickler for historical accuracy in his collection, and the other guy isn't...all things being equal - who's collection do you see?

I'd choose HOOTERS for the Real deal, except on LI.
Recently 2 large collections were posted on Oldgas, Both have fantasy pumps, signs & globes.

That is what I didn't care for in those collections...the neon collection was impressive but how many of those signs were punched for neon??

different strokes for different folks...

Check the history of my posts on this topic. I believe in leaving in the guts so I'm with Gulfiend. John

Thank you for your input on this question…

I have made up my mind – and after a MRI yesterday of my brain – I know for a fact that I have more then a peanut in my head like some of you have thought in the past! Lol

I have one NOS tall Tokheim 39 that has the guts in it, and it still runs great – I sprayed wd-40 in it while it was running, and then put a pipe cap on the bottom sealing up the insides from leaking. Someone above said “how many times to I open up a pump and show off the inside” well quite a bit, most people ask if I took everything out of it and when I say NO they always want to see what it looked like inside and how it worked. I did put this pump in my living room – it is my SuperTest pump – and no matter how much I washed the inside out with every cleaner I could find then sandblasting, and even now that it is acid-etched, sealed and painted it still smells “a little” like gas when you open up the doors – like an old car smell. With the doors closed up and the pump left alone it stopped smelling after a month or so – and that was a very light smell that my wife did not even notice – but I was looking for a smell around the pump, and today there is no smell of gas around the pump at all.

I thought about this all night, and I will leave the guts in this pump too – it is not like I move them around a lot – I usually drop them in place and they stay there for a year or more – plus this one will probably end up in a museum in the next year or so just like a lot of my pumps.

And I must be getting old – dang this pump is the most heavy I have ever dealt with!


Travis
Topeka, Kansas

IMO, most people that collect pumps or might in the future could care less if the guts are in the pump or not. I think for most the guts are an inconvenience, too heavy, too smelly, and non functional anyway.

As with any hobby or endeavor there are the 'purists' that strictly adhere to a sense of right or wrong, and that's okay too.

Most of us buy what appeals to us and paint them up the way we want. What to do with the insides is no difference.

Do as you wish but I say gut 'em. I sell a fair number of pumps and hardly anyone ever asks if the guts are still in them. If they do ask is because they DON'T want the guts in them. This is just my preference and if some people like them with the guts in them that is fine with me. My keeper pumps are all gutted.

Keith