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jkyocom Offline OP
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I thought those of you who visit the pat office might like to know this....At first I though I was being spam-erized
There are some interesting points in the links.

Dear Mr. Yocom,

We understand that you seek permission to reproduce one of the figures found in U.S. Patent No. grin, grin grin grin, grin grin grin in a publication. The USPTO does not typically own the copyrights of figures contained in U.S. patents; particularly patents filed and owned by others. As our website notes: “Subject to limited exceptions reflected in 37 CFR 1.71(d) & (e) and 1.84(s), the text and drawings of a patent are typically not subject to copyright restrictions.” http://www.uspto.gov/news/media/ccpubguide.jsp
Regrettably, we do not have any way of knowing whether there is a copyright in the figure you have identified, and if so, who the owner might be. On the very page of our website cited above, we note that: “[t]here are also instances where a portion of the text or drawings of a patent may be under copyright. You should consult an attorney regarding these potential trademark and copyright issues. The USPTO will not assist in determining if a potential trademark issue or copyright issue exists for a particular patent.” In fact, while the agency has made provisions for those seeking to include a copyright notice in their patent, it does not require that such notice be given to preserve the copyright. See MPEP 608.01(v). (http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/0600_608_01_v.htm ).

Cordially,
Catherine Szabo
On behalf of the Webmaster

A Copywrite search came up with this.

Serial Number Reg. Number Word Mark Check Status Live/Dead
1 78819106 3317447 VEEDER-ROOT TARR LIVE
3 72343195 0895031 VEEDER-ROOT TARR LIVE
4 71273482 0268745 VEEDER-ROOT TARR DEAD


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Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
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Shocked that ya got a reply!! Sounds like a lot of string to follow frown


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jkyocom Offline OP
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Research is a B*tch..... crazy


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Too say the least!!!!!!!!!


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jkyocom Offline OP
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All I can find is copywrites for the name image.

After 75 years I DOUBT if the image is STILL copy written,
even if it was at first. cool
Afterall they stopped production on that computer in 1937..
..why protect something that is OBSOLETE?


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Joe I would still ask an attorney before proceeding......corporations can be a real pain in the backside when it comes to their patents, even if they are obsolete.

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jkyocom Offline OP
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I would appreciate any help anyone can give on this subject.
I know that most legal things can be done by anyone who can get the right information. You don't need a license to practice law as long as you don't get paid....as far as I know
I did my own accident/insurance case when I was 19, and came out better than if I HAD hired an lawyer.

I would imagine there are SEVERAL folks with the knowledge to show me the proper channels to go through.
Now wether they are WILLING to help is another story.

I have written Veeder Root this morning......let's see if THEY answer.
Thanks


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Joe,
I am an attorney, but I never practiced patent/copyright law ( except one case which I litigated) It is considered a specialized area of practice. Many attorneys who specialize in it have backgrounds in engineering,mechanical drawing etc.
I can understand why you might not want to go to the expense of hiring an attorney, but there is a middle ground. You might be able to hire a patent attorney to guide you through the process with you doing most of the legwork. He or she probably wont guarantee that there is no patent because you are doing the work and will give you a CYA letter so they wont be held responsible if you screw up.
Your local or state bar association probably has a referral service and can give you the names of some attorneys in your area. I would try calling a few and see if they would be willing to work with you.
Hope this helps.
John


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jkyocom Offline OP
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I have done title searches and stuff like that so I know a little bit about processes like these.

I have a few architect customers and a few lawyer customers, I can start there I guess...Thanks

There is a patent but the copywrite on the picture is what is in question.
I can find no other copy writes on Veeder Root in the trademark office than the ones above.
The first two are still live and the third is dead.

Word Mark VEEDER-ROOT
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Electronic factory automation control systems components; namely electronic counters; instruments for measuring volume, length, time, rate, cycles, revolutions, speed, number of events and rate of occurrence of events, namely, electric counters, totalizing counters, predetermining counters, electromechanical counters, pneumatic counters, electromechanical counters, and preset counters; instruments for measuring number of events, namely hand-tally counters; and electrical diverse process indicators, namely, temperature indicators, speed indicators, and level indicators. FIRST USE: 19891231. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19891231


Typed Drawing


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word Mark VEEDER-ROOT
Goods and Services IC 009. US 026. G & S: COUNTERS, REGISTERS, COMPUTERS, CALCULATING MACHINES, INDICATORS, INSTRUMENTS AND DISPLAY DEVICES OPERATED MECHANICALLY MANUALLY, ELECTRICALLY, ELECTROMECHANICALLY, PHOTOELECTRICALLY, ELECTRONICALLY, FLUIDICALLY OR OTHERWISE, AND PARTS THEREOF, THEIR ATTACHMENTS TO AND THEIR OPERATION BY ANY TYPE OF MACHINE OR DEVICE WHOSE CONDITION OR SUCCESSIVE OPERATIONS ARE DESIRED TO BE COUNTED, RECORDED, MEASURED OR DISPLAYED. FIRST USE: 19280501. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19280501


Word Mark VEEDER-ROOT
Goods and Services (EXPIRED) IC 009. US 026. G & S: MECHANICAL COUNTING AND INDICATING DEVICES COMPRISING CYCLOMETERS, ODOMETERS, AND REGISTERS AND COUNTERS FOR REVOLUTIONS AND ROTATIONS AND FOR THE MOVEMENTS OF ANY MOVING PART OF SPEEDOMETERS, TELEPHONES, TYPEWRITER WORD COUNTERS, LOOMPICKS, KNITTING MACHINES, SEWING MACHINES, BRAIDING MACHINES, HAND TALLIES, AND OTHER MACHINES IN WHICH THE MOVEMENTS OF A PARTICULAR MOVING PART IS TO BE COUNTED. FIRST USE: 19280501. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19280501


I see nothing there that makes reference to any PRINTED material, just the devices and the name.

In my letter to Veeder Root I asked permission to use the pat. pic as a cover to an ID booklet for their "crankback" computer line.
I am curious to see if they respond.
If nothing else transpires at least you guys will know I tried going through proper channels to obtain permission for this.
If I do not recieve an answer from VEEDER ROOT I will consider it a NON-ISSUE.
I just don't want to have to spend $3,000.00 for a booklet I may not make $1000.00 on.
Thanks again....
Joe


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Joe, I guess i am lost... what are you trying to do?


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jkyocom Offline OP
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I want to make sure this picture has NO LIVE copywrite.
I want to use the pat drawing for the cover page on the ID booklet.

Last edited by jkyocom; Thu Dec 24 2009 10:53 AM.

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Joe,
You can also seek permission to use it. I am sure you have seen pictures and drawings that say " used with the permission of AcmeCo." In this case, it might be easier to seek permission rather than forgiveness lol
John


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I agree... getting permission would be easier or have some one draw one up in photoshop but make some changes to it.


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How about using Photo's of the one[s] you have restored, instead of using Patent Drawings ?
Reduce your photo to a line drawing.

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jkyocom Offline OP
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going for the retro look grin


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Joe:

I spent over 30 years doing Technical Illustrations for two of the 'Big Three'.

If you want a very nice VR illustration for the front of your book - just send my a photo taken at the angle you need and I'll do a nice piece of line art for you.

No Charge.

Later . . .

Jim

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jkyocom Offline OP
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Let's see what Veeder Root says first.
I will give them a couple weeks.
Who knows, they might respond next week but I doubt it.
If I don't get a response I will send you what you need.
Thanks!!
Joe


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..why protect something that is OBSOLETE?

Same reason you cant reproduce old Texaco, Mobil, Coke images of items that are obsolete. I would imagine it's the VR name itself rather than the actual item as the problem.

Now I applaud your efforts on your research and I seriously doubt anyone would have a problem with what you are doing.

But in our "sue-happy" world you have to CYA. Nothing like getting a cease and desist letter from some attorney...

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jkyocom Offline OP
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I will not be using the VEEDER ROOT name, or copying any of their literature. Just wanted to use the pat drawing.

Ok, clue the dumb 'ol plumber in as to what a CYA is.


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"cover your a#$"


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I work in engineering and have a design patent in my name. Patent attorneys are extremely expensive.

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Anyone ever know of a Cheap Attorney ?

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jkyocom Offline OP
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Yeah, but he's in prison.


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jkyocom Offline OP
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I got a reply from VEEDER ROOT!!!!!
Now it is in the ping pong mode....
I guess they are thinking I am asking for info
when I am asking for permission.
I may get my third respose tomorrow...I got two today shocked shocked


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Tell them you have re-written their REPAIR Manual that includes the Model #'s x x x x, so that anyone having one can fix them.
db

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I told them what I was doing.
It kinda surprises me that they have no archives.
The letter didn't show much interest in what I am doing.

....this is just for the use of the pat pic for the ID thingy.
It might take more than another year to complete the rebuild manual. 4-5 heads and 5-6 variators it may take a while.

Everytime I think I am close to done on the ID another thought or issue comes up and I have to add or edit.

The last thing recently was the 40, 40-A computer interchange issue.
20+ years doing it and I am still learning.


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