Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Known & Suspected Unmarked Petro Reproductions eBay seller "lacie51"

...this seller has at least two pieces claimed to be vintage in the title, but the description goes on to say " There is no date or I.D. on the sign so I do not know the origin or history on this piece"...a Texaco aircraft sign and a Ford sign...both are as fake as the day is long...

200565577847
200566600878

I ALWAYS THOUGHT "VINTAGE" WAS A REFERENCE TO OLDER STYLE, NOT BEING ORIGINAL OR OLD. (???)

...I've always understood 'vintage' to mean 'old and authentic', but this seller uses the term for things that ARE actually old, as well as obvious repros...

...as to pricing that fake Texaco sign starting at $649?...the price alone is misleading...

...it looks like they have an extensive line of 'old style' reproductions as well...read their descriptions - talk about your basic 'CYA' boilerplate...

...they even have fakes (and a flange!) patterned after the vintage, original Ford Dearborn tractor signs someone posted pics of on Oldgas last year or so...here is their description:

This item appears to be an NOS embossed Ford Tractor - Dearborn Farm Equipment sign in near mint condition. There is no date or manufacturer on this sign so therefore we are selling it with no known date or origin. This sign was part of a collection so therefore may have a few minor scratches and mars on the frame as shown in the images. The sign is has great embossing, all the key elements in the field of the sign are raised. There is no date on this sign. The sign has a wood frame and also wood frame backing. Please look over the images carefully prior to bidding. This sign would make a great item for the farm advertising collector. The sign measures 26" x 38"

Vintage in collecting terminology, before the Internet; meant that an original item was between 50 and 100 yrs old.

Antique was an item over 100 yr old.

Now vintage can be/is described to be items from the 1980's and earlier.

Descriptions of the word "Antique" lately seem to run the gambit. Most of the time, people use the word to describe items anywhere from 90 to 40 years old, that includes some of the descriptions given here on Oldgas on certain items.

I agree Gulfiend, the Description is worded to make an unsuspecting buyer THINK they stumbled onto an original piece that others won't bid on thinking it's fake. Very deceiving.

I use the word "vintage" in most of my auctions on ebay with that meaning old. Question is what is old or vintage?? I guess I view that as older than 1970. 1970's is not vintage or old to me as that was when I was born. Pre Keith is old or vintage and anything after that is not. LOL

Keith

Bob is right according to ehow.com heres what came up!The term vintage refers to a particular span of time. Collectibles are items deemed worthy of collecting because of their history, manufacturing process or for personal or nostalgic reasons. Vintage items that are 100 years old or less. Items older than 100 years are referred to as antiques.

vintage origianaly came from winemakers refering to"The yield of wine or grapes from a vineyard or district during one season" so if you drink enough wine,you'll buy the sign???

I like the way you were able to bring alcohol into the discussion. A true professional.

The seller does sell some real stuff but most of the time the prices are off the wall. I think you guys are 100% correct. The terminology used in the listing is very confusing.

He's been selling that stuff for awhile.......old style and vintage looking is just the long spelling for fake......and I can't believe people pay for these ....check out these seller's on ebay.....1954gasandoil and tiger27gto....watch some of their sign and see what they sell for....sometime over $200

Does 1954gasandoil not sell original stuff. I hope I didnt get burned.

Miken PM sent.

I noticed when I typed vintage during searches for what items/signage was on my 30's gas station porch, almost all the objects were listed as reproductions...

Nicole
(feeling close to vintage herself)

...Mike Smith just pointed out something curious about this seller in another thread...click on this link, and look at the large collection photos:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200565517556

"look at the pictures down below their description about their company. The 3rd and 6th picture down is of Miles Little's new showcase building and his personal collection"

...what in the world?...why would this seller have photos of someone else's items illustrating an ad for their business?

Hello forum members - this is Mike Mas who runs the eBay store under the user name of "Lacie 51". If I might be direct up front, I've had my store for close to 10 years now and I run a 100% by the book auction on my site. Most every item is "Clearly" marked either: Vintage (old and original items) or Old Style which is a sign that is modern in design.

I find it troubling for any forum member to make the claim that any of our signs are being sold as original when they are not. Both the Ford sign and the Texaco sign were just won at an auction in NC. I researched both signs prior to the auction, In addition, I have had a number of experts confirm these signs are both original and vintage. I assure you, I would not buy a sign to deceive any of our customers and secondly, I double assure you I paid a "Real Authentic" price for both of those pieces from the auction house.

What puzzles me, after 30 years of being around this business I still cannot look at a flat image on a screen to determine if a sign is 100% authentic or fake so I wonder how all these "so-called" experts can do it.

Lastly, for the guy who is "Baby Crying" about an image of a showcase pump on my store, that image is being used with the full consent of Mr. Miles Little as a typical pump that Mr. Miles had agreed to allow me to sell for him. In a period of a few months, RC Media has spent $30,000 to 40,000 with with Little so it's not like I'm taking advantage of anyone. If you don't belive me give Miles a call! Next time - please get your facts straight before you put your mouth in gear.

Best Regards- you guys really do have a great forum here!

Mike

YOU RESEARCHED THAT TEXACO SIGN.

I'M GOING TO LET SOMEONE ELSE MUCH COOLER HANDLE YOU MIKE MAS. YOU JUST STEPPED IN THE WRONG PILE WHEN SAYING THAT ABOUT RESEARCHING THE TEXACO SIGN, CLAIMING THAT IT IS ORIGINAL !!! I'LL BET MY LEFT LEG YOU DID NOT FIND ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR SIGN !!! THERE'S ONE FROM THE 40's-50's THAT HAS WINGS BUT LIKE LIKE YOUR FLATTEN OUT RUSTY OLD OIL CAN....

I'M DONE, HE HIT FIRST JIM, RYAN : )

Like I said . . .

Do your research before you start crying and accusing - get your facts straight.

I'll be right down and do some research ! I'm not crying here smart one. Not dumb enough to buy your sign. Accusing ? Yep I'm accusing you of selling a fake as the day is long. Take me to court and bring your sign with you !!!

...so, you're saying every sign on your site that is marked 'vintage' is an old sign, NOT made for the nostalgia/collector market?...that should be easy enough to verify...


...that's fine - let's hear from those 'experts', and they can make their case...and they'll lose...the Texaco sign, and the Ford signs I mention are not old...at all...


...sounds to me like you got 'took'...


...what puzzles me is, how you could be messing with this stuff for 30 years and think that Texaco sign is right...but, to your point: it's a knowledge of fakes that have been produced, methods used to manufacture the originals and how those processes differ from the fakes, and the graphic differences between the two...there were no computers around to set type when that Ford sign would have been used, and yet - all of the type on that sign (except the Ford logo) was set on a computer...the bottom font hadn't even been invented in the 1930's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optima

...and lastly: WHY would Ford use an 18" x 8" sign like this?...it's TOO SMALL to have been effective as an advertising tool...


...good for you - I hate to think what Miles would do if you didn't have his permission! And those images of Miles' stuff are cleverly included with the description of your business, leading one to reasonably infer that the pieces are part of your stupendous inventory...


...well, gosh, that's certainly something to be proud of...but honestly, I've never heard of anyone taking advantage of Miles...

The truth hurts don't it - all your "so-called" facts about my bogus signs and my illegal use of a few images of some pumps and now you're lost for words. Give Miles a call and ask him how many original signs I've bought from him for my store? or are you accusing him as well?

Like I said, please don't accuse me of selling junk on eBay - I run a reputable business, everything is clearly marked.

Get your facts straight . . . .

Thanks!

...this is known as 'deflection'...of course, I'm not accusing Miles of anything, and I honestly can't see how any reasonable person would assume that after reading my post...period...

...again - who are these 'experts'?...PLEASE, have them weigh in on the Texaco and Ford signs...

...those reading this thread can (and will) make up their own minds...

...but I'll go you one further...ANYONE on Oldgas who thinks the Texaco or Ford signs are old, original signs, let them post here with their argument and we'll discuss it...

Deflection? there's no deflection, I just proved you dead wrong on all your so called claims. I can tell by your avatar you like to fight with guys!

Ok, you asked for the experts . . . the experts are the 15 other bidders at the auction who were bidding against me to include the auctioneer, all of which inspected the signs prior to the auction.

Anything else?

REALLY?? LOL



...so...they bid against you, and that makes them 'experts'...hmmm...

[quote=Mikemas]The truth hurts don't it.

Probably not as much as repeatedly hitting yourself in the forehead with a shovel......

One thing is for certain, no one person can figure all this stuff out - have I made mistakes and bought bogus signs thinking they were perfect yes, I think we all have. However I would never intentionally buy and sell a repo sign for a new one. We go out of our way to research our signs and take plenty of clear images and mark all our signs to the best of our knowledge.

I sure didn't get up here to argue with you guys, I just about fell out my chair when I seen my store mentioned in this category. I enjoy this forum and the users knowledge on collectibles. Regretfully, a few guys have forced me to defend our reputation.

Been there done that [defend myself].
Been turning da 'puter off, walking away & working on a case of warm beer, figuring that someday the offenders will bite themself in the *** !

Mikemas, you should take what is being told as constructive critism and change your listings, You are fooling a lot of inexperienced buyers with the tricky wording in your auctions. If you are sincere in running a legit honest business, state that the signs are REPRODUCTIONS, not OLD STYLE or VINTAGE or UNKNOWN when you are well aware they are not Old pieces. That is what this post started as

how much did you pay for that shell sign on ebay mikemas? $250? everyone better hop all over that $1299 price tag on ebay because thats a bargain!!! i cant stand all these people who pull these prices out of a magic hat.


http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-NEON-SHELL-OIL-COMPANY-EMBOSSED-PORCELAIN-SIGN_W0QQitemZ200566541489QQcategoryZ833QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6933500874332027537

...well said...

One thing for sure - you're not going to dictate to me how to run my business or my policies on my store - we're doing just fine, while you sure can't please everyone, I invite you to look through my feedback - we run a professional sign company and possibly move more signs then any other company. We didn't achieve this level by taking advantage of our customers.

I spoke to Miles regarding his images and so you guys don't drag another decent person into this "whipping post thread", I decided to remove his images to keep his good name out of the topic!

Regards!

Good idea, Miles surely does not need to be affiliated with a decieving seller.

I just feel bad for the buyers who find out they have been had by false representation

with all due respect Mike, these signs these guys speak of are fantasy signs never made in this size or form...Ford had a large one very similar but not that small.....

hey losthighway,not nice to try & kick a guy when he's down, you say "you can't stand all these people who pull these prices out of a magic hat" .I don't think its really relevant what you pay or how you come up with prices, hey if you own it you can ask a million if you want & pull it out of a magic hat....

"losthighway" that is a good name, a friend om mine from Washington "David Webb" named his museum that same name many years ago

I agree about the tricky descriptions. "Item was auctioned off as an original item"

It sounds like your 100% confidant that these pieces are original, then why not say that in the descriptions?

Ok, I guess I'm going to have to jump up here every time I post a sign on my site to make sure it conforms to all the experts - heck maybe you guys can just ride over to the auctions with me to make sure each sign is OK

I just put up a few more signs maybe you guys should check them out to make sure they are original or are these pop's as well?

200574457234

140510335474

200574462180

Mike

I want to know who signed off on 15 day passes for the expert bidders. I mean heads should roll down there !!!

Be patience Mike, we'll get to the bottom of all this . ; )

You are completely missing the point. It is not that all of your signs are not original, but how you word your auctions to trick somebody into thinking a sign is original with out saying its original. Perfect example, 200574356909 Why not just come out and say that this sign is a fantasy, because it is. End of story.

Ryan

Or your flange signs, they aren't re-issues. They are smaller fake signs. Your AIR sign is a fake, did you buy it from TreasureRay?

Your fake "Old style" signs that you say are "real" porcelain in the header hoping to confuse the new collector, into thinking the signs are original.

The more people who read this thread and look closely at your words and your items, the less potential customers you will have, IMO.

You "play" with words to trick, potential buyers... It is your store and you can do what you like with it. But, you brought attention to your store, that you may not want in the long run. Thousands of people, members and non-members alike will read the comments posted here. A lot of those will now read your descriptions closely instead of skimming over them. They will see auction headers that don't match the descriptions. A 7 year old sign, is not vintage in any universe.

Why can't you just say a copy , fake , or a remake of the original sign.....!m guessing you must have an upset buyer on here that bought 1 of your imposter signs......lol

Some very valid points have been made here.

Either Mikemas is going to take it constructively and change the way he chooses his words in auction descriptions or he chooses to ignore the points made here.

Let's not "kick a dead horse" with overstating what has been already said.

Why is he even a member here then.????

The post you mention is clearly marked:

Title: OLD STYLE 30" SINCLAIR DINO PORCELAIN SIGN 2 SIDE

Old style means just that - it is a copy of an Old Style sign.

The first line in the description says:

This item is a 30" Re-Issue of a vintage Sinclair Dino Station two-sided porcelain sign.

How much clear can I be? RE-Issue can only mean one thing " not original" I have sold hundreds of these signs and not one buyer ever came back saying they thought it was an original sign.

Looks to me as if only you experts are tripping up and not understanding the descriptions. My customers all know that we list our signs accordingly either Old Style or Vintage.

No I don't buy them from him and I pay over $100 each plus shipping for each sign. I generally sell these for $125 and after fee's, I net a whooping $10-15. I list them only as a convenience to my customers. Bottom line all the guys who buy the signs love them, they are worth more than what we sell them for. My vendor assures me the signs are original and refurbished. Any other questions?

Looks like this guy will not change his ways. Beware of his auctions and murky descriptions.