Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion ARE RESTORED GAS GLOBES WORTHLESS???

There was a point in time I thought a restored globe might be worth 50-75% of a good original's value. Now I'm not sure it's worth much more than the cost of a reproduction.

We can debate values all day, but auctions will generally give us a sense of fair value.

Recent auctions this year seem to be telling us that a restored globe isn't worth much.

The Jerry Winston auction produced hammer prices on restored globes that were much less than his original costs.

The Peotone auction this past weekend had an incredible selection of rare, original globes, and many sold for top dollar. The bidder audience included many of the top buyers in the country (in person, on-line and on the phone), yet the restored globes sold for about 10% of a good original's cost, or not much more than a reproduction.

Here are some good examples from this past weekend's auction:

1. This original Independent globe in good condition, sold for $4,500:



This Pepco Independent globe was restored, and displayed near perfect, selling for $400. I should also mention that this globe would have sold for less, but I was the backup bidder from about $250 up.




2. This Red Hat globe only had ONE lense which had minor paint chips and also had small flecks on the edge of the glass lense. This one original, untouched, imperfect lense w/body, still sold for $3,100, which would reasonably seem to indicate a complete globe in excellent condition should bring $7,000+/-.



This Musco Red Hat original globe with metal body and TWO lenses restored, displaying perfect, sold for $700.



It would appear that restored globes may not be worth the cost of restoration.

Consider also, the following Champion globe had broken lenses (only one was Champion with the car) and fade and missing paint, and it still sold for $175.



Is it possible that original lenses may, with few exceptions, be better left untouched...???....and could a globe restoration actually diminish the original unretouched globe's value??

Many restored globes were intially sold for healthy prices at the beginning of this fad, but restored globe resales at auction (with respectable auctioneers and sellers) seem to indicate the bottom has dropped out of this market.

What do you think??

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Ron Bettin
740-774-OHIO(6446)
bettin@bright.net

[This message has been edited by bettin (edited 03-07-2005).]

Ron, I think... and this is just my opinion is that Jerry's globes were listed as 10% touched up. There was a lot of talk of there touch being from 10% to 100%. I think people are affraid of them not knowning how much they were touched up... pictures or not. I think that a globe with fading would be worth more than a touched up globe. Let me ask you this... i didn't follow the globes very well but what did the cracked globes do? I think i would rather have an original cracked globe that was repaired than a touched up lens. I know everyone can't afford mint original globes so repaired or touched up globes come next than repop globes. Just my thoughts.

My 2 cents,I will never buy a globe thats been touched up when you do your whole collection becomes suspect there was a lot of talk at the Knoxville auction about what globes have been touched up and the % of touch up.I only want positive stories about my stuff not this one is 10% touched up and this sign is the real one.Buy original it pays off.
I am tired of hearing everyone can't buy original globes mint or average condition.Read Lonnie Hop's report on the Its A Gas show in PCM 2 guys were selling NOS Sinclair lens sets for $100.00.Many common globes are selling at $140 -$175 complete, single lenses are selling for less. Now of course we all can't buy the high dollar globes,but start with original globes and your globe collection will grow in value.One of the first globes I bought after we moved to Kentucky in 1997 was a Clark for $75.00.BTW it wasn't touched up.Hey buy what you want I do.
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REX LIKES UNTOUCHED GLOBES

John - All the globes that went through auction, including the cracked ones, are listed with prices on the Proxibid auction link:
http://www.proxibid.com/csi/Catalog.asp?aid=1678

I am of the opinion that you are correct in your sumation. I also think the same applies to restored porcelain signs.

John mentioned the amount of restoration that some globes had in the Winston sale. At first they were advertised as 10% or less restoration. That was later corrected and an announcement was even made at the auction. The prices realized for restored globes at that auction were a wake up call. This most recent auction confirmed that restored globes aren't a good investment. At least not right now.

I think part of the problem is some globes have been restored that were too far gone. When you start talking 50%, 75% or even 100% restoration, are you really talking about restoration or reproduction?

Some guys will continue to have their globes restored and thats fine. Current market trends show that they are a tough sell though.

JJ brought up an interesting point about repaired globes. So far the practice of repairing globes that are cracked or broken has been rather limited. I think repaired lenses will be more widely accepted than restored lenses.

What about an all metal globe and lenses? I have a Deep Rock that someone blasted and started painting. Should I finish painting or blast it and let it rust? Thanks for your advice.

Bob:

Don't mess around with it - sell it to me for the Keeper's birthday gift.

Later . .

Jim




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www.T-waysGraphics.com

IAM ALWAYS BUYING GLOBES THAT ARE FADED OR PAINT LOSS LENES. IF YOU HAVE ANY PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL AT 810 225 1886 THANK YOU CHEESE WWW.BCHEESE.COM

Lastgas, I believe that as long as the original lense is used [or original material for a sign] it is a restoration, no matter the percentage. What we buy from Vic's or Webers are reproduction or fantasy.
I'm not a globe guy, but I would think that a restored globe should be at least worth the investment [cost of the globe plus cost of the restoration.]

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ROD [Mich.]

Rod, regarding prices and values, recent auctions are saying differently - restored globes do not seem to be worth the cost of restoration.

The Pepco globe(see above) with original lenses were found (about 8-9 lenses?) by me in PA. I sold them to the restorer who did a top notch restoration on all of them. I believe they resold in the over $1,500 range, and if not mistaken, a globe dealer who frequents the shows, had them for sale $2,000-2,200+/- range. This is the same globe that sold at Peotone for $400 with me as back up bidder from about $250.

Rod,
I don't see how an old lens with 100% new paint can be considered original. I'm a globe guy and don't consider them to be original. No matter, like Ron says they aren't holding their value.
Interesting topic Ron.
Bob

I thought Id put my 2 cents in on this one, Im not a globe guy butI would think that no matter what it is still an original piece and should have value based on that alone. Just because it is restored shouldnt make it worthless. Is a pump worthless when it is restored ? It is the same principal, someone put alot of time and hard work into bringing it back to life again

Dave

Dave,
Thats like comparing apples and oranges. Restored pumps are USUALLY worth more than unrestored pumps. Pumps compare more favorably to cars.

Not the same with globes. Its the original paint that gives a globe its value. If you're talking minor restoration of 5-10% of a RARE lens then maybe it adds something. If you're talking 50-100% restoration the value just isn't there.

Dave,

At the beginning of this fad, I had similiar thoughts that an original lense should still have value as an original, but auction history is giving us over-whelming evidence that restored lenses are not worth much of anything.

Like Bob said, pumps are different - and auction history proves that also.

We can offer our thoughts and opinions all day long, but accruing auction history is giving us hard evidence the value of a restored globe is not much more than a reproduction, and is not worth the cost of a restoration.

What is important, is that new-comers to the hobby don't become dis-enchanted spending $2,000 on a globe, only to find that can't sell it for more than $400.

If anyone feels strongly that restored globes are a good investment, I have beautiful, very original Sohio Heat 3pc that according to the restorer, had very minor restoration done to it. I paid $950 cash two years ago for it. I'd gladly take a $200 loss and sell it now for $750 and include shipping. That is still probably $300 more than it would bring at auction on it's best day. If I find an unrestored original for my shelf to replace it, I'll sell the restored one for alot less. Email me at bettin@bright.net if of interest.

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Ron Bettin
740-774-OHIO(6446)
bettin@bright.net

I've been out of town a few days and am trying to catch up on what has happened. I'm bringing this topic back to the top to clarify one thing.
Last gas, my reply was to your statement [or question] at to what percentage of restoration does a lense become a reproduction. I stated that I felt that as long as the original lense [piece of glass] was used it was not a reproduction. I agree that it is not an original [untouched] globe once any amount of restoration has been done, but it is not a reproduction if the same piece of glass from day one is there.
As I said before, I'm certainly no expert when it comes to globes, and I can only make guesses as to why the value slump right now, but I would think collectors could benifit keeping a close watch and consider restored pieces for the collections.

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ROD [Mich.]

Rod,
Its the graphics that give the lens value. I don't know any serious globe collectors that would consider 100% (or even 75% or 50%) new paint on an old lens an original.
There are guys buying up restored globes like crazy. They may have the last laugh if prices rebound. Right now globes with major restoration don't look like a good investment.
I'd like to hear everyones thoughts on how minor restoration affects value.
Bob

IMHO, the market will set it's own parameters of value and worth. Obviously as a whole, in this area of collectables, right now restored globes are not as valuable. I can understand why. To me, (maybe not anyone else) there is little difference between a touched up original and a repop. Once the globe has been restored it is no longer original and to refer to it as such just doesn't make sense to me. We all have different ideas as how to restore a pump. To me I really don't care about the globe. I will pretty much only use repop globes. Where I become particular is that I will only use original ad glass. The next guy will only use original globes and repop ad glass. There is no right or wrong, it's whatever trips your trigger. As previously stated the market will dictate the values, I think the market is reflecting as a whole what it thinks of touched up originals.

I truly think that a few bad apples spoiled the whole crop. Globes that were touched up were doing pretty well up until people started getting scared that there 10% touched up globe might be 90% touched up. Everyone doesn't know what to think so they just aren't buying them... hence low prices at the auctions. How would a pump guy feel buying a visible pump and finding out the glass is repop, skins are after market and the only original thing to it was a couple of cast pieces? Wouldn't care if it was a Wayne 615 maybe but what about a roman pump? The worse part about this is the more pricey stuff gets the more this sorta stuff is going to start happening. If it's a repop mark it, I think touched up globes could be marked touched up and maybe say how much? Just some of my two cents.

Until the restorers of globe lenses can truly document the amt. of restoration done, I think the declining market is justified. A before and after pic alone is'nt enough. the same pic could be used on other lenses that are the same kind with say 30% damage but the before pic only shows 10 % . I personally don't like restored lenses but to each his own. The restoration work being done must be very good if you can't determine the damage by visual inspection. I think the value would possibly go back up if there was a way to mark or verify each lens so when one passes through several hands you'll still know what lens it is and amt. of restoration that's been done. The doubt and uncertainty is what's killing the value. I wish you fellow collectors good luck on this one, I don't see an easy fix. Thanks for letting me ramble. Ron'''''''''

Cheeseman does a great job restoring lenses. If a person wants their globe restored to look at thats thier business. We could debate the subject all day but Ron Bettin is right, the prices are off. I think there has been to much mud-slinging about globes and everyone should just be adult about this and if you don't have anything good to say, shut-up and don't buy it. If you want it, shut-up and step up and pay the price. Remember, for most of us, this is a passionate hobby that we love to participate in, so everyone needs to understand that different people like different things. There is something out there in the world for everyone. I like globes and buy what I like. Period

Roger: I guess I don't follow what you're saying. I reread all the posts and see no mud slinging or anyone posting in an un"adult" manner. You are right about one thing, Cheese and the Mrs. kick out some nice looking lenses.

Ohio Oil, I am sorry I did not clarify myself, just got back from Florida on vacation and am still recovering. The "mudslinging" I was refering to happened a year or so ago when people were arguing over the amount of touch-up the globes actually had before the Winston auction. None has happened in this topic thank goodness. But it has in the past and I hope it does'nt again.

Roger - any good finds in FLA?

I wonder how many lenses are restored for collectors VS restored for vendors?
My guess would be that most restorations are done for resale.
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REX LIKES ORIGINAL LENSES

Roger,

Well Put....WELL PUT!

"If you want it, shut-up and step up and pay the price."

Oh my, looks like you're coming over to my side...GO WOCO-PEP! (even if the asking price might be....Above "MARKET VALUE?)

Whadda think?

Any comments from Mr. Bettin!!!???

Take this with a grain of salt, but it's an idea. If there were a universal grading service, like they have for baseball cards, done by an impartial and bonded third party. Someone that performed a documentated inspection before and after restoration, and the lens was somehow marked to identify it, so it could be compared with its restoration records, then and only then would you have a system that works, and a base to establish values. If the lens is that rare, the service would be well worth the cost. On the other hand, if the Mona Lisa was 50% washed off the canvas and restored by the most talented painter in the world, it would never really be considered the Mona Lisa.

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Good Luck on the Hunt
Lance / The Pogo Man

In response to Ron's question. I was at "Bike Week" in Daytona Beach so was doing the motorcycle thing. You know, riding, looking at topless girls while my wife belts me a time or two, that sort of stuff. I did catch myself looking for gas and oil, but nothing really unique came up. There were a few restored pumps around, some junker signs, even saw some vendors trying to peddle repo Harley signs as original, but nothing good. Had a blast and thanks for asking.
In response to Sinclair Joe, I may be coming over to your side soon, getting to tired at 41 to argue with anyone anymore. I did notice the 2500 Woco has been reduced to a modest 2350. I guess 600 is enough to make on one piece, right? I am still waiting for a 1750 one. Remember, patience.

It always amazes me how the give and take of information and opinons becomes personal or an arguement.This site is for gathering information and sharing it with others in our hobby.No one is trying to tell anyone how or what to do were just expressing our opinon..........No one is trying to change anyones mind were all different doing what we enjoy our OWN way.
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REX LIKES OLDGAS

I will leave my 15" CRACKED CLIPPER & WILDFIRE lenses in the metal bodys.
Might be worth more SOMEDAY !

Good idea Dick - they'll have that "antique", original look to them...........make sure the body is a little rusty also

Ron
Was that RUSTY or CRUSTY ?
Just like the PRESENT OWNER !

Dick - it actually should have been both......a "crusty" old owner will make the story about the "rusty" old globe, more believable......

GOOD ONE RON YOU GUYS ARE ON A ROLL, L.O.L CHEESE

Noticed there is a Woco-Pep in this weekend's auction......a different version than Sinclair Joe's globe. Has a little fade at bottom on both sides. Rates 8.5 - wonder where it will finish.....

Also, a rare 15" single lense Tiwoser.

Looks like all original globes - no restoration.

Here is the restored Sohio Heat I referred to in an earlier posting.



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Ron Bettin
740-774-OHIO(6446)
bettin@bright.net

iam always buying globe lenses that have paint loss or fading.www.bcheese.com cheese

[This message has been edited by big cheese (edited 03-18-2005).]