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#3535 Wed May 26 2004 08:07 AM
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T-way Offline OP
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I thought this topic deserved it's own 'string'. So here it is.

I'm not a Cpoyright laywer. The following is just my two-cents, but is based on current research and having spent 25+ years dealing with, and creating, copyrighted images through General Motors and my own company. I will limit my comments to web-based copyright issues. Other copyright formats can have slightly different applications and regulations.

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As the web-based copyright laws are currently written (and interperted) "Works put on the Internet are considered “published” and therefore qualify for copyright protection. A work put on the Internet is not considered public domain simply because it was posted on the Internet and free for anyone to download and copy. You need permission from the site owner to publish any materials, including photographs, music, and artwork from the site."

However, taking a picture of a registered trademark or anything that is already copyrighted (i.e.: a globe or a sign), doesn't transfer that copyright to the photographer. What the photographer gets is an IMAGE (the actual photograph) that he can - in turn - copyright. The actual photograph is what the photographer 'created' and that is what is copyright material. Posting that photo on this web page (or any other) does not transfer the copyright to the site owner. The key sentence in the quote above is: "You need permission from the site owner to PUBLISH any materials, including photographs, music, and artwork from the site." (My emphasis on 'publish'.) In order for it to be copyright infringment, the actual photograph or original artwork needs to be published or duplicated. This would include, but is not limited to, using the image/artwork for: catalogs, other web pages, posters, etc. By posting here, the owner of the photograph is giving permission to use their image on THIS site. If the ACTUAL image is copied and used on another site or printed, etc. without the photographers permission - that would be copyright infringment. If the image is copied and stored in someone's computer for personal use, there is no copyright infringment because it has not been 'published'.

What a web site owner actually 'owns', in copyrighted form, is any ORIGINAL artwork or ORIGINAL text that he/she creates for their site. Postings are words and images that stay the sole property of the originator.

To beleive that anyone that takes a photograph 'owns' the artwork shown in that photo is incorrect. The originator of the artwork 'owns' the art - whether it is an actual person, persons, or a corporation. If those copyrights or registrations have expired, or the coproration is out of business and no longer enforcing the copyright, then the art is in the public domain.

You may own a rare globe/sign/decal/etc., but this has no bearing on the actual copyright holder. As an owner, you may lend your item to someone to make copies, or to duplicate the artwork in some manner. This is not 'legal permission' to use the image if the original copyright is still in effect.

To make sure of 'legal' ownership, you should register the image with the Library of Congress, Copyright Office. There is a form to fill out, fees to be paid, and you must submit copies of the actual artwork/photo/writings/etc. The Copyright Office will research your request to verify the registration and issue you a Certificate of Registration if the submission is valid. According to the Copyright office web site: "Your registration becomes effective on the day that the Copyright Office receives your application, payment, and copy(ies) in acceptable form. If your submission is in order, you will receive a certificate of registration in 4 to 5 months."

I hope this gives you a better understanding of the current copyright process.

Later . . .

Jim
T-way's Graphic F/X, Inc



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[This message has been edited by bettin (edited 08-22-2005).]

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Jim...a very thoughtful post indeed, though am I incorrect that a graphic designer or the person paying that graphic designer has the rights to a body of work, such as a catalog or website, even if some of the pics contained aren't his/her property by themselves?? Waiting on your answer....Seth

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Excellent explanation Jim.
I guess somewhere in the previous postings the difference between the owner of an image and the owner of a trademark got blurred.


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


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Seth:

The following is taken DIRECTLY from the Library of Congress, Copyright Office web site. I think this will answer your question and further explain some of what I touched on in my original post (above).

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Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

In the case of works made for hire, the employer and not the employee is considered to be the author. Section 101 of the copyright law defines a "work made for hire" as:

(1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment; or
(2) a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as:
a contribution to a collective work
a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work
a translation
a supplementary work
a compilation
an instructional text
a test
answer material for a test
an atlas
if the parties expressly agree in a written instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made for hire....

The authors of a joint work are co-owners of the copyright in the work, unless there is an agreement to the contrary.

Copyright in each separate contribution to a periodical or other collective work is distinct from copyright in the collective work as a whole and vests initially with the author of the contribution.


Two General Principles
Mere ownership of a book, manuscript, painting, or any other copy or phonorecord does not give the possessor the copyright. The law provides that transfer of ownership of any material object that embodies a protected work does not of itself convey any rights in the copyright.
Minors may claim copyright, but state laws may regulate the business dealings involving copyrights owned by minors. For information on relevant state laws, consult an attorney.

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To clarify your question about pictures in a catalog and the graphic designer angle.

The person that is requesting the creation of the catalog (lets say you, in this example) should have received permission for EVERY image used in the catalog (photographs of items from various suppliers, original artwork, etc.). Since you are paying the graphic designer/graphic design company to create the catalog for you, any art they create for the catalog and the text, layout, etc. is generally viewed as belonging to you (i.e. "Work made for hire"). You paid for it to be created and you are the only person that will be using it.

If the graphic designer or design company used an image that was not cleared and authorized for publication, you would be the one named in a law suite - not the designers.

As a further example. You can purchase the rights to use an image 'exclusively' or for a certain amount of reproductions. GM for example, provides images out of the GM Media Archives for use in publications. GM charges a fee based on the amount of copies that will be printed. More copies - more $$'s. Further, GM has numerous ad agencies that create ads, printed materials, etc. All of these commercials, brochures, printed ads, etc. are the property of General Motors - not the agency that created it. This is spelled out in the contracts GM awards to the agencies so there is no question on copyright ownership.

Later . . .

Jim






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[This message has been edited by T-way (edited 05-27-2004).]

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One complicated issue is that many of the old companies with interesting logos appear to be out of business, but actually are part of a currently existing company. Many old oil companies were bought, merged or changed names over the decades and their intellectual property is now owned by a successor.
Does the current owner of the vintage trademark have any interest in protecting or using it? Maybe, maybe not. Do the reproducers of trademarked items always check to see if what they are making is protected intellectual property? The owner of a photograph, sign or globe has no legal standing in trademark ownership, so he has no basis for granting permission for use.

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Jim "Oldgas" Potts
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Jim "Oldgas" Potts
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