Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Online Auctions, eBay Craigslist Petroliana Sunoco bottles. Are things for real.

Granted I've only been in this hobby for 8 months. But I've never seen one of these and now 2 so called very rare bottles show up on the same night. And their both cherry mint. Are these real?

200870227694

170965161456

I would say fake. 2 of them in MINT condition, no marks, or damage done to them, a little suspicious don't you think?

That's exactly what I thought!!

I would stay away from both because rare glass bottles are faked alot, but these have no rack marks or small chips or scratches...?

170965161456 looks better to me than than 200870227694 because it is embossed at the top at the fill line.

But both are very very clean and a bit to clean i think.

Just my opinions, i like to be able to hold something and look at it first hand if it is rare because you have a better sense of if it is right or not.

I like that to, when it is in my hands, I know if it is real or fake most of the time.

Hi Dont be too quick to quick to say FAKE--- I saw this bottle 10-15 years ago-- during the war all sorts of bottles got used-- Quaker State-- Pennzoil and othere used this stlye bottle--some with screw on top-- others with a snap on cap-- they are both diff bottles--others like Kendall used at lease 3 diff bottles-- Just mt 2 cents--thanks don PS some Sunoco bottles even had the fired on logo on inside of bottle??

Ok, I have a question. If, I said if, these bottles are authentic are they worth $200 apiece? Just askin.......GB

Not to jump on Don's wagon, but I felt along the same lines as him as I have seen similar shaped bottles that were legit, especially the Pennzoil ones. I have never seen a Sunoco one previous to these before, but I don't look for Sunoco items either, so that's why I was reluctant to respond that they could be real. The one does have the liquid measure line and the labels look good, not sloppy like a repro could be. The condition could also be nice due to the fact that they were used for such a short period during the war and were not reused as the metal supply was replenished and cans were produced again. I know I do not see many of the Mobiloil jars and there had to be a lot of those made.
Darin

Well again you have to think what they used these bottles for...
They were used and then most of the time thrown away, nobody thought that they would be collectible or worth more than the glass they were printed on.
I am not going to say FAKE or Real but i would have to stay away because i have been burned before (as most of us have) and would for sure have to hold them in my hand to say real or fake. Photos speak a 1000 words but seeing them first hand says a bit more.

Disclaimer: The following is my opinion based on my experiences in my life, yours may vary.

A quick FYI if you're looking at any glass containers, whether bottles, jars, etc. I use these identification techniques when inspecting glass.

Used glass containers should have signs of use unless NOS. Remember most glass containers were reused, refilled, moved, slid, and otherwise handled on a regular basis.

Inspect the bottom, sides, and lid area for scratches, chips, and wear where they would have been slid across surfaces, into carriers, and lids/tops removed and replaced.

Authentic pieces, unless stored away in some crate on some shelf and never moved, or still sealed with contents should show some sign of usage and wear. Many items like early oil fill bottles and store canisters would have been refilled and used many times.

The bottles in question fall into a time frame where they probably wouldn't have been refilled so if treated well when used could show minimal wear.

Authenticating them is the key. Does a "known good" example use the same style and finish W978 marked bottle? Does the litho print match the good example. Bleeding of the printing may indicate the jar as a 2nd or reject, authentic but not used and discarded. Up at the old corning factory in NY you could find rejects galore in the old days of all types.

I wouldn't plunk down serious money until you personally are satisfied with their authenticity. I don't know if any of the books out there on gas & oil go into specifics on many bottles. I'm sure the long time bottle collectors out there may be familiar with the bottle type to at least authenticate it.

I have no idea if they are real or not. But I do know that multiple items in good condition still show up from time to time. While 2 showing up in great condition at once may be an indicator that they may be fakes, it should only be used as a possible indicator and not as the sole basis for saying it is a repo. As always, buyer beware...

From my experience, bottles above were for take home, replacing cans during WW2, not for refilling. MOST 2nds are recycled at the bottle manufacturer.
Fired on labels, not unusual to be in perfect condition.

Not to step on anyones fingers or toes but I would say they are real. Yes it would be great to hold them in your hand to tell for sure but looking at all the photos makes me go with what I've seen in simular Pennzoil bottles and Like DB say's those fired on labels held up well and I can't see repops going that far. IMO.

The beginning of this thread is a good example of why opinions shouldn't be thrown around for the sake of just posting. Need to learn to walk before attempting to run.

Takes more skill and experience than just looking at pictures and then taking a guess....unless that's the reputation you want.

I don't care, how many repro signs, real signs or bottles you have held. You can look, touch, feel and taste (if you like) all you want, but that is going to do very little to help you in determining authenticity. No substitute for experience and being familiar with the history. Takes years to learn that...you have to put in your time.

I could have posted on this two days ago...but I would have been guessing. Simply, because I'm not familiar with Sunoco, I own some original Sunoco fired on labeled oil bottles...that alone doesn't make me an expert or gives me the right to guess the authenticity of the bottles in question.

Bad information, is worse than no information!

IF our forefathers lived like we do today, these items wouldn't be around for future generations to collect.
Today just as soon as it's empty/broken, it's Trashed. Back then bottles, cans, pumps, signs, etc. were saved as they Might need the item to fix a roof, patch the floor, bottle the extra moon shine, fix the plumbing, etc.

Globes were just to pretty to throw away.

Dave, you said it very well once again. So true

Okay, I've got 2 questions.
I've seen people post before about how bottles were used during WWII because of all the metal going to the war effort.

Am I then correct to think that bottles were never used before the war?

And, as soon as the war ended, did they go back to cans?

Bulk oil glass quart bottles were used for years before and after the war ended. I don't know if you're questioning brand specific oil bottles, but of course they exist, Standard, Sunoco, Shell, Pure Tiolene, etc. that are embossed with the company name/logos. They were intended for bulk oil dispensing at the stations whereas cans were more for the public to buy and take home, before and after the 1940's.
I don't know if anyone has "studied" the use of the glass bottles that were specifically made during war-time. I don't know if they were used at the beginning or end of the war, but in the case of Mobiloil, the ads used during that time always show cans, but they did produce glass jar packaging of the same design. I also have a Standard Lubrite glass jar. Unfortunately they do not have any date code information to help pin down a date of manufacture.
Darin

Great info as always Darin! This answered another question for me.
I have two oil can books that both have the Dynalube brand showing up in 1946 (post war). Granted this is a pretty broad stroked piece of information, but with what you said about bottles going post war, it at least tells me that the Dynalube brand and the use of bottles could have co-existed.

Stippling, the bumpy finish on the base of bottles and jars, was popular from post WWII to the mid-1950s and faded out as newer and faster machines were introduced. While there are still some stippled jar bases now, they were few and far between before WWII.

I would be wary of any oil bottle/jar that did not have the "Fill to line" embossing on it, but there were some marine/2 cycle original bottles that did not have that line.

I've always been leery of bottles that advertised Multi-grades on the bottles....

The research I've done, doesn't support "Multi-grade" oil being advertised before 1953....

Veedol, a leader in the "field" did not make or sell "Multi-grade" Oil before the later half of 1953 and the 1954 Veedol Lubrication Guide was their first to make mention of 10-30SAE Motor Oil....

As such, I've stayed away from any bottle that signify "Multi-grade" Oil....

Hmm.... Very very interesting info Bob!!!

Here's an interesting read on Torco's website about multi-grade oil for racing.

Torco history of multigrade oil.

That Torco link was an awesome read!

Veedol High Detergency would be considered now a multi-grade...


But, like the Torco... The Society of American Engineers had not upgraded the Standards for Motor Oil.... So the oil was advertised as "single grade Motor Oil".....


Torco Racing Oil is a "staple" in the Sport... My Dad used it in the 60s in his SCCA A SEDAN/TRANS AM car and I used it in my racing cart and in the 1/4 Midget in the later 60s.... Later used it in the SCCA, IMSA and Vintage Racing cars....

Wow!! 170965161456 is up to $255 with 3 days to go!!