#385362
Sat Jan 12 2013 11:53 AM
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Below you will find a large variety of markers that I have captured from a variety of sources including oldgas. While I know the identity of some, I have marked many as unknown since they may have been used by more than one company or specific to only one specific model. If you can help me identify the company and or models they were used on, I can post them in the gallery to help other restorers. Thanks.
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These topics are archived because they are older. You may not post new replies. Contact member through their email in their Profile or by PM message.
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More pictures
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Sat Jan 12 2013 12:31 PM.
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More Pictures
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Sat Jan 12 2013 12:32 PM.
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Very nice work Tim & great idea 
Wanted Owens Motor Oil & Mobiloil Gargoyle. Brad Ralston & my website is www.petrobarn.com
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Sure your not a beancounter ######s. Ha Ha.Nice to see such a vast collection in one place.Very nice .
Wanted TEXACO related items & SUNOCO related items .Signs -Globes et'c. Oil Cans - Grease cans .
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Ok I'll start it out #26 is a Dayton 400 stick. Richard
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Description #5 is G&B T-176 gallon markers.
Braden Splichal
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#27 Boyle Dayton 74 Vizo.
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Thanks to Richard (gatorgaspumps) for emailing me these pictures. Anyone else who has a markers that are not shown please feel free to send me a picture or add to this post
 Tokheim 199/200
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#1 AMERICAN [5,10 & 15gal]
#2 BOWSER
#5 G&B T-176 mounted on Alum Tubing
#16 Early WAYNE 490/491/492/515
#20 BD Inside Cyl. Brass Pointers & Outside Cyl. # Strip
#35 GUARANTEE #80-82
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Ok I'll do another one #27 Wayne 78, 83. Richard
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Illustration # 14 appears to be a G&B Model 67
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Number28 were used on alot of Wayne pumps. Richard
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Here's another marker. It's from a Fleckenstein 5 Gallon pump.
 Fleckenstein 5 Gallon Marker
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The last one I know is #10 Tokheim 600 series. It would be nice if we could identify all these markers. Would be a great reference thread. When I find a pump in the wild the first thing I look for is the gallon markers to start the identification process. I've also had pumps that were missing the sticks, would be nice to have some refernce to what they look like. Richard
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Here are a couple more not shown by Tim;  [Click on Thumbnail image for larger picture]
Last edited by Dick Bennett; Tue Jan 15 2013 10:18 AM.
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Can anyone ID this stick? 
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#386445
Tue Jan 15 2013 09:55 PM
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I see Vics offers a gallon marker for a Hayes pump that looks just like these. I've never seen a Hayes with these. Can anyone confirm that these are Hayes markers?
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Now that I've posted this picture I actually see that there are 2 different types. The ones in the red boxes do not have a horizontal strip marking the exact point of measurement.
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I have 2 sticks like the ones in red boarder & can defiantly see rub marks where there was the 1/2 washer type slider for accurate measuring.
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It looks like the horizontal markers are just held on by spring tension and could easily be lost if tossed around.
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Tim, I have an Hayes Junior with the markers you are showing.
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I have Hayes with same markers also.
I offer quart can re-lidding, can rolling, lid stamping, and dent removal.
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I should have mentioned that those little brass indicators(horizontal strips) don't seem to stay on very well...when I got my pump they were loose and falling off.
I offer quart can re-lidding, can rolling, lid stamping, and dent removal.
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Solid Brass Marker found in a fry but I don't think they were original. Numbers are cast onto a solid background.
 Found this solid Brass marker in a Fry pump.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Wed Jan 16 2013 02:16 PM.
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My contribution. These are out of my St. Louis 409. They are very fragile, less than 1/8" of thin aluminum where the number joins the part that goes to the rod. It used threaded rod with nuts above to position the numbers. I had to buy a second set to get enough good ones for my pump. URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/stlouis.jpg/]  [/URL] Jack Sim jhsim@petrocollect.com
Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.comAir Meter ID book also available
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Thanks Jack. I was hoping you would contribute.
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Dick Bennett provided this picture and information. I have this set in my Dayton 100 pump but the cylinder is so dirty inside I have never been able to get a good look at the markers. Thanks Dick.
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Another job well done by Dick Bennett.
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Can anyone identify the marker on the left? The square attachment rod is rounded on the end and the slots in the marker are longer than a Wayne. The attachment method to the rod is also quite different.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Wed Jan 23 2013 09:55 AM.
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Tim, you and those who have participated; are doing a great job with this thread!...
I didn't realize there were/are so many different styles of markers!
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
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The way you folks have them displayed on the pages... To me atleast they look like small pieces of art...
I wish they weren't so darn expensive; for the originals... LOL
I think displaying them side by side would be a great display... And really show the differences and the similarities in the different Manufacturer's Gallon Markers... ( But then again; I do march "not only to a different drummer, but one seldom heard by sane individuals"... LOL)
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
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Correct Measure 5 gallon;
Last edited by Dick Bennett; Wed Jan 23 2013 02:46 PM.
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Found in a Tokheim 225
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Mon Jan 28 2013 08:37 AM.
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Dick Bennett forwarded a number of Marker photos prepared by Dennis Maier of Az. he did an excellent job. Thanks Dennis and DB. The collection is starting to grow.
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Another marker set. Thanks Dick Bennett & Dennis Maier.
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Thanks so much to Tim, Dick and everyone helping. This is a great resource.
Jim "Oldgas" Potts
Your host and moderator
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Another marker set. Thanks Dick Bennett & Dennis Maier.
If you have a marker set shown in this thread, please do a favor to you fellow collector and share it with them. "Act as if what you do makes a difference. It does."
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Another marker set found in a Dayton 600. Thanks Dick Bennett & Dennis Maier.
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Tim, you guys are doing a great job on this thread. It will be a great reference for people that restore pumps. I encourage anyone out there with additional markers to contact Tim. Richard
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Descripton #22 appears to be the positive stop buttons from a Wayne 519
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Thanks for the positive input Richard.
Can anyone else confirm that #22 are the positive stop buttons from a Wayne 519? I found a picture posted earlier on old gas of some 519 buttons and the shape is the same but there are some differences. My guess is you're right.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Wed Feb 06 2013 06:27 PM.
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Another marker set. Thanks Dick Bennett & Dennis Maier.
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Another marker set. Thanks Dick Bennett & Dennis Maier.
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# 34 looks exactly like my Gilbert and Barker type 67 model 7 10 gallon visible.
Etched aluminum disk with number and says gallons on a brass plate with points on either side on a steel exterior rod.
I can post photos of mine after work.
Ryan
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Can anyone ID this stick? Looks like my G and B model 7 type 67 10 gallon visible pump markers. - rkmiller73
Ryan
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No. 27 is identically to the Wayne 615 I just finished polishing
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I found this picture in a previous post on Oldgas of a 5 Gallon Groetken.
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Another example provided by Dick Bennett.
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Found in a Milwaukee Model 297.
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Found in a Milwaukee 298.
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Another set found in a Milwaukee 297 & 299. These appear to be the same or similar to indicators found in a umber of other manufacturers such as American , Boyle Dayton and Doty pumps.
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Tim, this is a great gallery, wish I had something to post that has not already been. Thanks for doing it.
Thanks, Phil
_________________________________________________
Looking for any old pumps, or nice 5 gallon cans.
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Thanks Phil. It's one of those projects that is fun but also frustrating. I wish I had a nice set of each one in front of me that I could measure, professionally photograph and provide more detailed information on. Maybe as more member attend swap meets, auctions, museums, private collections and shows they will take the time to snap some pictures and contribute to the cause.
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Unlike most bell shaped indicators, this one is upside down. Anyone know what pump it goes to?
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Another set.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Fri Feb 22 2013 03:57 PM.
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Fancy KEESEE indicators. The combination oil & visible pump that was at Knotts Berry Farm for many years [was sold on ebay approx 5yrs ago] had these in it.
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Tim It's hard to believe there are that many variations in the markers. I have learned alot. Richard
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Thanks Richard it your encouraging words along with help from Jack and Dick and others that keeps me going.
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I'm really surprised there hasn't been more participation to get this done Tim.
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I would love to add but the only ones I had are already posted. I may have some St. Louis 5 gallon to post. Great thread.
Thanks, Phil
_________________________________________________
Looking for any old pumps, or nice 5 gallon cans.
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I always suspected this was a Tokheim indicator set but could not find any pictures of a visible pump with these in it. Today I found Patent #1727317 confirming this as a Tokheim Indicator.
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I have confirmed that Unknown Picture #6 is in fact a Godshalk Indicator.
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Another Tokheim indicator. With the help of the Jack Sim's book and a magnifying glass I was able to identify seven models that this indicator was used in.
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Can any of you Fry experts tell me if this Guarantee Measure Indicator patented in 1927 was actually used on any pump models?
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Thanks to Jerry (42packard) for providing these Indicator pictures from his rare Bryant Pump. Jerry took the time to do this while he was in the process of moving and setting stuff up at his new place. I appreciate it Jerry.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Thu Feb 28 2013 06:06 AM.
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An indicator set like the one originally shown in photo # 12 is for sale on ebay for $225. ebay item # 321082878868, I am still looking for someone to identify the maker.
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I beleive Bowser 111 markers
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What pump uses this set of indicator tabs?
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The indicators in the first photo have been identified as belonging to a Wayne Canadian 5 gallon pump. The indicators in the second photo are similar except they are from a 10 gallon pump and instead of having a "0" indicator they have a "FULL GALS" indicator. The 5 gallon markers are all brass whereas the 2nd set appears to be steel. Can anyone tell me if these are also from Canadian Waynes.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Mon Mar 04 2013 10:05 PM.
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What pump uses this set of indicator tabs? Tim, Your post on 3-3-2013 #398412, were attached to cyl base casting of Tok. 600 series
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Thanks Dick. I've been making so many withdrawals from his bank of knowledge, I'm going to be overdrawn.
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Thanks again to Jerry (42packard) for providing these great Indicator pictures from his Fry 17 with a Wayne conversion. The appear to be the same as the indicators in photo #33 which have remained unidentified up till now.
Jerry sent me some additional Fry photos showing great detail of the Indicators. I'll get them posted tomorrow.
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As I started researching Fry with Wayne conversions, I found very few photos, but the ones I did find, had the standard embossed Wayne indicator. The indicators in the previous post look similar to a southwest pump. Input anyone?
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On post #397757 I said the strip should be inside the cylinder. I meant outside of the cylinder.
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Here are the Fry 117 pictures provided by Jerry (42packard).
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Tue Mar 05 2013 12:43 PM.
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Wayne 615 Gallon Indicator adjustment device.
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I'm still looking for picture of indicators to post. I haven't found any on the following:
Beacon
Beacon Equipment
Birmingham
Brown
Erie
Hawkeye Dart
Kew Ideal
Lancer
National
Pennsylvania
Progress
Rheem
Raymond
Royer
Shotwell
Springfield
United States
Visible
Volcker
Vonde
Western
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These are the Indicators shown in the original Tokheim sales literature.
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Using original sales literature, I find only four different Indicators used by Wayne.
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I was lucky enough to find a picture of a pump, that most of us will never see in person. A "Vonde."
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Wed Mar 13 2013 04:54 AM.
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The indicators on the left of the real photo were previously identified as being used on Dayton 300's & 400's. However if you look at the collage of Dayton Indicators, the indicators show Dayton 300's & 400's are square with the number centrally placed.
The photo of the Simplex shows an Indicator that is rectangular with what appears to be the gallon number on the left and and something on the right (presumably GAL written vertically.)
Are their any Dayton 300/400 or Simplex owners out there that can confirm the correct indicators for either pumps?
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Below are the indicators used in 17 different models of Milwaukee Visible Pumps. Real photos would be more helpful but I've got to work with what I've got.
I am not positive that the real photo of the indicator identified as a 58-A is correct. DB provided it to me. He said the original owner said it came from a Fry Roman Column who thought it was an original setup. However after looking at original sales literature, I could not find any Fry indicators that looked like it, but did notice this very close resemblance to the Milwaukee 58-A.
As always any help that you can provide will be appreciated.
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Below is a picture of Boyle Dayton Indicators from original sales literature. Neither picture shows the shield shape we often think of as being Boyle Dayton. I know different indicators could be installed by jobbers or by restorers using whatever set they had handy. After Wayne bought BD did they refurbish old pumps with the shield indicators?
I have also included a rhombus shape that was seen in a Fry Pump. They look similar to the BD 74 except for the holes. Does anyone have a Boyle Dayton 74 with the rhombus shape shown in the sales literature?
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I need a good picture of the indicators that fit the 5 gallon attachments for curb pumps, Bowser C-111 and C-81 models. From reviewing previous post I know a number of members own these models. Please help? Thanks.
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re: 58-A He said the original owner said it came from a Fry Roman Column Nope, I said it was Early Wayne 490/491/492.
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My error. First one for 2013. I wish!
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After finding other photos I believe the picture in post #396470 is another Canadian Wayne. Any Canadians out there to confirm this?
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Earlier I suggested that this marker closely resembled the the indicator used in a Milwaukee 58-A. While it does resemble it, upon closer examination of a blown up copy of original sales literature, I am convinced it is a Wayne marker. According to DB; "I've only heard & seen them in Early 491/492. Was Guessing they were in the 490."
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I have not been able to find any real photo examples from these two companies. The first picture is Beacon and the second is Beacon Equipment.
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An excellent example of an early cast iron Fry 17 showing the same indicators as used in other early Fry pumps. Thanks to DB for taking this photo.
This is a beautiful original pump with alligatored red, green and yellow paint.
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National visible pump Indicators.
Even though the indicators look different in each picture I think they might all be the same. The picture of the single is a Dayton indicator which appears to be the same style as the National. I don't know if the National uses the same style spring tension for mounting.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Wed Mar 20 2013 05:29 PM.
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Well, I've done the best I could but I'm not positive that everything I have here is correct and welcome any corrections. I've seen photos with about every imaginable indicator, installed inside and outside. Enjoy.
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This photo was labeled as a Fry Cylinder. Can anyone confirm it? 5 or 10 Gallon?
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Again I need your help. I'm trying to determine which pumps these round indicators belong to. Can you help?
I have also included a picture from original G&B sales literature, which shows that early 176's had a round indicator. Can anyone confirm that indicator #4 is from an early 176?
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Correct Measure indicators.
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Birmingham. Not a pump you will likely encounter and I couldn't find a real picture. This was the only pump advertised by the company.
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The Kew-Ideal pumps appear to have used etched Cylinders.
Did you ever notice the resemblance between the Kew-Ideal pump and the Springfield Pump. They both used etched cylinders, have the same type of access door, same bottom cylinder plate, the same unique body shape and were manufactured only 100 miles from each other and within one year of each other.
The bottom picture is a Springfield pump sporting the same Bonnet as the real photo of the Kew-Ideal(not the same as shown in the sales literature). I have also included a photo of my Springfield Cylinder which is different in design compared to the Kew-Ideal sales literature, however the sales literature doesn't always accurately reflect the final product.
Jack do you know if there was a connection?
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Tue Mar 26 2013 11:41 AM.
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Cast Indicators. If you can identify any of the indicators marked unknown or if you have cast indicators not shown, please let me know.
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Thanx for all your hard work on this Tim. It's amazing what your doing!
LOOKING-4:WELDING SIGNS,Charter/Finance/PulOil/Trulite/TruTest-Oils,True's gas CORALINE/RAINBOW, Gardner 70 items of Yakima wa., Wa/Or/Id Chief items
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Some examples of arrow shaped Indicators.
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Toby Martinez just posted these indicators which were found in his Martin Schwartz Pump (Post #405373). These are the same as used in American pumps and is not known if they are original to the pump.
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Tim,
You asked about the possible connection between Kew-Ideal and Springfield. Which Springfield are you asking about?
Jack
Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.comAir Meter ID book also available
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Any of the Springfield 200's. I posted a picture of a Springfield in post #404668. I should have labeled it. You used a picture of my Springfield in your first Book.
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The Bennett 810 indicator is very similar to the Gilbert and Barker indicator. The rivets on the G&B indicator are within the square, the Bennetts are outside of the square. The top edge of the meniscus line slope on the Bennett 810 but on the G&B the top edge is parallel to the bottom edge.
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What I meant by which Springfield was the Illiniois or the Tennessee Springfield. The reason I asked is that Mackensie had something to do with the Illinois Springfield.
Jack Sim
Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.comAir Meter ID book also available
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Wayne indicators including Wayne models made by Boyle Dayton Division of Wayne Pump & Tanks Co. of Los Angeles CA and Canadian Wayne indicators.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Mon Apr 01 2013 07:59 PM.
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The pump in reply #406403 is most likely a fantasy pump, possibly by the Benkin Co.
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I have been unable to find any real photos of the indicators used by these companies.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Tue Apr 02 2013 05:28 AM.
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Western Visible had at 5, 10 & 15 gallon models in either hand operated or air operated. It appeared they all used an etched cylinder.
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Not a pump that any of us or likely to see. A Wisconsin Pump.
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In post #401924, I indicated that even though the Boyle Dayton sales literature showed an arrow type of indicator that I never have found any picture of a BD with anything other than the shield shape we are all familiar with. I finally found an old photo.
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It's hard to tell from the original sales literature if Clear Vision used a number strip. All the clear Visions I have seen used only an etched cylinder like the one in the picture.
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The Royer pump used etched cylinders.
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The Ottawa pump used etched Cylinders.
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Below is a list of pump that from photos and sales literature appeared to use etched cylinders. Some were apparently available with indicators or etched cylinders.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Fri Apr 05 2013 12:41 PM.
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Sales literature show the Doty with etched cylinders however I've seen pictures of Doty's with an American style indicator in them. Any out there with a Doty who can contribute a picture?
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Sell me your Gilmore Oil Co. stuff...
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Awesome photos!!! On 3-13-2013 I posted the patent for this indicator under the heading of Indicator ideas that didn't survive. I also said "Below are some patents pictures of Indicators that probably were never put into production". Boy was I wrong.
Thanks for following the thread.
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Interesting!... I hadn't seen that thread. I searched a bit for that patent on Google but didn't see it yet. Do you remember what it was listed under?
Sell me your Gilmore Oil Co. stuff...
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Tim and anyone else who have contributed to this thread... Thank you very much!
I've owned a few visibles, but do I admit that they pretty much looked the same to me... Thanks to all that have contributed. I can now see some of the different nuances that "jump out" to you that are Pump Collectors....
I've learned quite a bit by following along.... Of course, I have so much more to learn...
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
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Patent # US 1908202 assigned to the American Liquid Meter Company in Alhambra California.
Where did you find the photo's at?
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The illustration on the right shows an indicator shaped exactly like the real photos on the right. The real photos were previously listed as an unidentified cast indicator. I can't say for sure that they are from a Progress pump but until someone steps up with a real photo of their Progress indicator this is the best I can do.
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Butler is very simple in the fact that most of the pumps used only one style of indicator. It is belle shaped like so many other pump use but has a unique opening right below the stamped number. It's shaped like a flying saucer with an additional two small holes in the fold close to the edge.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Mon Apr 08 2013 05:00 AM.
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I could not find any Real photo's of an Erie Indicator so you'll have to settle on an illustration, which we have learned are not always accurate. In fact sometimes they aren't even close. From the illustration they look like the indicator commonly found in a G&B T-176 but with a more rounded top.
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I couldn't find any real photos of Lancer indicators and the illustration is almost useless. Hopefully a Lancer owner will step forward and provide a picture.
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National Stores. It's hard to tell from the illustration whether the pump has an indicator or an etched cylinder.
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Rheem. Only one model is known. The indicator looks like the indicator commonly found in a G&B T-176.
 Rheem
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Mon Apr 08 2013 05:19 AM.
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Used on all Safety Steel models.
 Safety Steel
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Patent # US 1908202 assigned to the American Liquid Meter Company in Alhambra California. Thanks, found the patent file. I wondered why it had all the adjustable grooves on the one side. Now I know the reason. Wonder how well it worked?
Sell me your Gilmore Oil Co. stuff...
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Dayton Indicators. I could not find an actual photo of a 400 or 450 pump to confirm that this is the correct indicator.
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At least four companies used the shield shaped indicators; American, Boyle-Dayton, Doty and Milwaukee. American, Doty and Milwaukee all used the same style with two rivets through the face holding on the tension clamp and meniscus line which were all one piece.
American used it on several of it's models.
Doty sales literature only showed etched cylinders but almost all photos I've seen of Doty's have the shield. This doesn't mean they were original to the pump.
Milwaukee had it's own unique shaped indicator but for some reason used the shield on it's 297 & 299 model.
Boyle Dayton used the shield but did not use the spring tension to hold the indicator to the rod. It had its own style of clamp, tightened by a screw to the rod. It's design eliminated the need for rivets through the face.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Tue Apr 09 2013 12:46 PM.
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Hawkeye-Dart. This is the best I could come up with.
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Below are two pictures. One features Keesee and the other shows an indicator previously identified as a Keesee.
I'm convinced now that the second set are actually Boyle-Dayton indicators as shown in my post #401924
The Keesee factory and the Boyle-Dayton factory were both located in southern California. Because of the similarity in the clock style arrow indicators I'm assuming some Keesee pump owners in need of a replacement indicator used the Boyle-Dayton indicators which would have been readily available in the market areas.
Last edited by Tim Rohr; Wed Apr 10 2013 07:40 PM.
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The "Short Bell" indicator was used by more than one company.
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A few companies used markers that did not have the traditional indicators that could be adjusted by sliding them up or down on a rod or bar.
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I am down to the last company, Gilbert and Barker. I've already shown some pictures of sales literature as well as some photos and an appeal for input. Unfortunately there was no input and I do not know for sure what was used when, and on what model. Following are a total of 9 photos to help you. These are the models that need to be identified:
67 - 10 Gallon - Possibly Identified
T-176 – 1925 – Version 1
T-176 – Square Version
T-176 – 1926 – Version 2
T-176 – 1928 – Version 3
T-177 – 1925 – Adj. Stops
T-178 – 1926
T-179 – 1927 – Mechanical Measure
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More potential G&B indicators.
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Did G&B used painted and raised numbers? Any particular models or year?
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Tim,here's a couple photos of gallon markers on a Dayton 300. I'll try to get some better shots in the near future.
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Thanks Jim. I guess I wasn't expecting an etched cylinder. Good Photo. It appears the pump has the same markers as used on the Dayton 100.
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Wayne Boyle/Dayton alongside a Keesee.
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I thought G&B would be one of the easiest indicators to define but have found it to be the most difficult. They used quite a variety of shapes and styles and I see the same kind in a lot of different models. I know that jobbers, owners and restorers alike, would often use whatever is at hand, but G&B seems to be the worst at trying to determine any kind of consistency. This even applies when looking at old photos, sales literature and pumps that look "original".
I'll throw this theory on the wall and see if it sticks. When G&B came out with a new model they would also come out with a new indicator style. Not only the new model would have the new Indicator style but all other models in production would have the new indicators installed as soon as there existing inventory had depleted.
Now the challenge: Using the number under the indicators in the picture below, place them in order from oldest to newest. Example: ( 1,2,5,6,4,3)
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I was finally able to obtain a clear photo of the back of a rivetless shield indicator showing it's mounting method.
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I spotted this nice Martin & Schwartz F100 visible at the Pate swap meet with the shield shaped indicators
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I bought M & S visible above, anyone know it that is the right top and #'s??
Last edited by Tbirdgas; Wed May 01 2013 07:06 PM.
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In reply #406752 I indicated that Western Visible probably used an etched cylinder. In further research I found they used "Decalcomania", which is a fancy french word for a decal.
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Killer reference thread.. Thanks all for the contributions.
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