Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Foreign Signs?

Foreign signs have always troubled me and partly because of my lack of knowledge on them and also because of the large influx of bogus signs from third world countries!
Thus my interest in the sudden appearance of several here on Old Gas!
I had a call this morning from an interested party that gave me a link to the previous owner of all of these signs and I was surprised to see that they had all originated from the same seller in Argentina?
I have "NO IDEA" as to the authenticity of these signs, whatsoever, but when they junp from a seller in Argentina to the pages of Old Gas, with no explanation as to their origination---I feel the membership should be notified and allowed to make their own decisions!

Ebay#251284155380 with seller jgoff2484

EbaY#121081167095 with seller guidoapothecary from Argentina

Same sign and seems to be the same place the other foreign signs have come from.---You be the judge!

Link to past sales for guidoapothecary---
http://www.ebay.com/csc/guidoapothecary/m.html?nma=true&item=121104951769&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&_sop=3&si=pnG0DG8Up%252B5dnBU8gjtnyEYtGEA%253D&orig_cvip=true&hash=item1c326ae9d9&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

Lets start by making it easy to view these signs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251284155380?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121081167095?

Kevin, like yourself; I to am skeptical about these signs. I consider myself an experienced sign collector. I rely on my years of cumulative experience collecting automobiles and such when I state that in my opinion this sign is without any doubt a fake. It can be conclusively concluded that, that is the same sign in both of those listings.

The chipping is not consistent with normal wear & tear but rather appears to support the process of an intentional accelerated, artificially aged process. The formation and coloration of the rust again are consistent with an artificial age process rather than a natural formation over 40-60 years.

The backs also seem to indicate a sloppy application of the porcelain to overstate it's age and the rack marks also seem exaggerated. Old original signs had rack marks but were not that sloppy in appearance and I seldom find rust on the back of a sign that was hung. Only original porcelain signs that have rust on the back are ones that were found buried.

This sign came from a source country of fakes from a known forgerer/manufacturer of these fakes, with a well documented history of selling fakes on e-Bay. Shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. If it smells like, looks like and feels like *****. THEN IT IS *****!

Do you go and buy new furniture from a person selling brand new merchandise out of the trunk of his car in a store parking lot? No, because you know it is stolen. Same logic applied here would clearly lead an informed and prudent individual of average intelligence to clearly and without doubt conclude that this sign is a fake.

I am saddened to note that this ***** is peddled on this site. Flakes selling fakes for profit at the expense of an entire hobby should not be tolerated anywhere!

Kevin and Dave I agree 100%!!!
I feel foreign signs being sold should be stated as such JUST like repo's or fantasy items...
Also if your going to buy from a known repo seller, then dont try selling it here WITHOUT letting people know its questionable origin...The truth always comes out eventually...

Agreed if it is a repop represent it as so. There are too many collectors who will bust ya if you try and pass this ***** off as original.

jgoff is a shady seller... that has been known on OldGas since I joined earlier this year. the only thing that has changed is now he is actually hooking some people. all of his items have some sort of issue with them, whether its foreign, wrong markings, etc.

I have had no dealings with this seller, here or on ebay. I thought it kinda strange to see these foreign signs cropping up with so many of them being mass produced south of the border. As a "junior" member I thought I would leave it to the verterans to deal with. Now that it has been brought up, I gotta ask why are any pieces of questionable background allowed here at all? Wouldn't it be nice to have a "safe haven" ?

I personally have had some questions about the originality of a couple of the signs that have been offered here...

That is why I contacted the Historian of the Chevron Corporation, the "Parent Company" of Texaco... To see if such signage is mentioned or shown in their Corporate Archives?....

Mr. John Harper is the Historian for the Chevron Oil Corporation...

I asked him, if he was familiar with the Texaco-Vacuum sign(s) posted For Sale on Oldgas:

Here are his replies as of yesterday:

May 16th 2013:

"I would have to research this, given I have never seen such a joint sign. I am not stating a partnership did not exist. Just need to confirm."

June 4th 2013:

"I have not come across such signs. Have checked other sources, too, including Ball's book on Texaco collectibles. Also checked the Texaco Star magazine, which goes back to 1914 or so. No luck. Now, that is not to say they did not exist, especially if there was a partnership. But such brands appearing on the same finished signs have not shown up. Early stations did sell multiple brands from various companies, but the signs were separate. I will keep looking."



As of today; I have also sent a request to EXXON/Mobil asking that their Historian contact me and/or Mr. Harper... I will ask if they show such signage?

be carefull last time I posted a message like that I got a message from Jim the webmaster asking me to stop harrassing member....

I think like you that those signs are fantasy, there are so many fakes around now that if you want to be sure to buy originals stay with well known ones with dates and signatures on them which prove the authenticity

by the way if you have any doubt about European signs I can help you, most of them were signed and dated so they are easy to distinguish from reproductions

Bob , it will be very interesting to see what the historian of Exxon has to say.Kind of has me curious now!

Been wondering when this was going to blow. As other poster being of limited time in the hobby I thought I best stay out of it. I have felt for a couple of days that Oldgas was a bad place for these signs to land,but the fees are so low here right.

I myself totally agree with Kevin and everyone else. When I first saw these signs on this site I new they were phonies and the seller even admitted they were from Argentina, funny all these signs look good on one side and the backs aways look like thet were in a bone yard for ever. Ted

According to the Michelin book the Michelin sign is correct and from Argentina. Most of the others, I'm not so sure. I agree fake, fantasy and repop(I like the word repop) have no place on oldgas without full disclosure.
You have to think there were signs in Argentina. Need a legit collector from that country to shed a little light on the subject.

I don't know much about foreign signs. I have a few French Canadian, European and Australian signs and cans in my collection. I feel comfortable with their authenticity. I have passed on most other foreign signs because of doubts, price, condition and shipping issues. Kind of like it is with any sign from anywhere.

The foreign signs currently offered by a member of Oldgas.com Shop Talk have not been proven to me they are reproduction, or not. They do look like they are not made to USA manufacturing and logo standards. Could be back then the local sign companies didn't do a "world class" job on making them.

For me personally, signs that have the rusty porcelain backs and appear to be artificially aged make me uncomfortable enough to stay away. But it is not enough for me to label them as repro with any certainty because I don't know what a real foreign sign is supposed to look like, or even if there ever was a real one like that.

If you don't have sufficient knowledge about a class of items, or you're not comfortable because of doubts, do some serious thinking before you drop serious money on an item. Foreign or not. Just sayin'.

First. how fun would it be to be a historian for one of these companies?

Second this is why it's a bad idea to buy foreign signs. I don't understand people's fetish with them. Stay away they are bad news.

The Texaco sign has a makers marker on it, the seller just didn't shoot a close-up of it. I think we should let the guy get up, before we kick him again. I've had lots of foreign signs through the years. Like American Mfgs, they didn't mark all of them. I can't compare any seller to the known foreign seller of American brand repops

On the other hand, I have had some very good dealings with Jgoff and have obtained some decent, original, signs from him at fair prices. I think we need to hear from him on this latest one. He also has a large Mobil sign on Old Gas and it can't be a fake. I also believe the Michelin sign he has on Old Gas is the real thing.
Ray

For what it's worth, I had asked about the mobil/texaco sign on another post, specifically if it was a real sign used in the industry (somewhere in the world), or a repo. Randy mentioned to me that it was the real deal.

mobil/texaco

My opinion is that these signs are real. I have seen the Michelin and the NAFTA before. I have had other foreign signs also, most of them having good graphics.

Show me a photograph from back in the day with the signs and then I will take them as original/real. Otherwise I would NEVER buy one. I can think of other things to throw my money away at with a good result and not getting screwed.

I just seen this thread after someone told me that my character was being slaughtered and it is unbelievable how some people just start saying untrue disrespectful things about other people that they don't even know and have never done any business with. I am an honest genuine person who loves signs, cars, all the good old stuff that most of the people on here like. I do not sell any fake signs period! If anyone has an issue with a sign i am selling all they have to do is ask about it. I am also not perfect and haven't been selling signs for 20 years so i appreciate anyone who does know more than I do about signs. You guys who wrote stuff about me who don't even know me or never done business with me must be very low in character and Integrity I have never done anything wrong to any of you or gave you any reason to say that i am "shady" not a good seller or whatever other rude comments you made. I am 100% honest, kind, and treat everyone with respect.

BailyBee your calling me a shady seller? What did i do to you for you to have the right to call me that? The only thing that is shady is how your disrespecting someone you know nothing about! You must be a great guy judging others and calling them names, that must make you feel real good about yourself.

In this thread

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=403171&page=1

you made this statement

ALL SO I AM NOT SAYING IT'S AN ORIGINAL. OBVIOUSLY THAT DOESN'Y SEEM TO BE THE CASE. DON'T GET THE WRONG IDEA

about this sign

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251268947377?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

That you sold as original.

Mr. Firth You made a incorrect post on my thread. I called you out on the comment and YOU said sorry my mistake but obviously it hurt your feelings because you decided to take the time to try to trash my name WITH ZERO FACTUAL INFORMATION!! YOU SAID IT YOURSELF ON THIS THREAD YOU HAVE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND NO IDEA ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF THESE SIGNS.YOU SURE HAVE A LOT TO SAY ABOUT THINGS THAT YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF.

MR DAVE'S GARAGE,
THE STUFF YOU SAID IS UNBELIEVABLE FIRST OF ALL. JUST BECAUSE A SIGN WASN'T MADE IN THE USA DOES NOT MEAN IT IS A FAKE. SAYING THINGS LIKE A KNOWN FORGER AND A HISTORY OF SELLING FAKE SIGNS IS RIDICULOUS. THOSE KIND OF COMMENTS ARE DEFAMATION TO ONES CHARACTER AND COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE. YOU SHOULD GIVE YOURSELF A PAT ON THE BACK FOR THAT ELOQUENTLY WROTE POST. YOUR BASEING ALL THAT YOU SAID ON "ONE" SIGN THAT YOU QUESTION IT'S AUTHENTICITY. THE KICKER IS THAT IF I DID HAVE SIGN THAT WAS QUESTIONABLE AS FAR AS BEING AUTHENTIC I WOULD GLADLY BE OPEN TO FINDING OUT EXACTLY WHAT THE CASE WAS. I WOULD NEVER TRY TO OR INTENTIONALLY SELL ANYTHING THAT WASN'T WHAT IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE. SO BEFORE YOU GO JUDGING AND COMPLETELY DISRESPECTING AND BLASTING SOMEONE YOU SHOULD GO TO THAT PERSON AND JUST SIMPLY ASK THEM ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE. YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED TO CONTACT ME OR SPOKE A WORD OF ANY OF THIS TO ME BUT YOU THINK IT IS OK JUST TO GO OFF ON ME ABOUT A SIGN THAT YOU THINK IS QUESTIONABLE. SO NEXT TIME TALK TO ME FIRST BEFORE YOU TRY TO TRASH MY N!AME

THESE ARE CALLED OPINIONS AND EVERYONE HAS ONE!!!!

I HAVE NEVER SOLD A SIGN ON HERE THAT THE BUYER HAD AN ISSUE YOU WITH. I HAVE SOLD A LOT OF VERY NICE SIGNS AND ALSO BOUGHT A LOT OF THEM. IF YOU DON'T LIKE A SIGN THEN DON'T BUY IT. I AM NOT GOING TO WORRY ABOUT EVERYONE'S OPINIONS OR BULL^^^^ COMMENTS. I BUY AND SELL FOREIGN SIGNS AND JUST BECAUSE I DO DOESN'T MEAN ANYONE ONE ELSE HAS TO. THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO BOUGHT STUFF FROM ME AND ACTUALLY KNOW ME AND DONE BUSINESS WITH ME FOR TELLING THE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T THE TRUTH. NOTICE HOW NOBODY WHO HAS BOUGHT ANYTHING FROM ME HAVE ANYTHING BAD TO SAY.

I'M OVER THE WHOLE THING, I NOT GOING TO ARGUE OR WORRY ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE OUT OF MY CONTROL. I HAVE SOLD A LOT OF SIGNS AND HAVE A LOT OF HAPPY CLIENTS AND FRIENDS FROM THE HOBBY. THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE JEALOUS PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEGATIVE VIEWS AND OPINIONS EVEN IF THEY DON'T HAVE ANY FACTS. I AM NOT PERFECT AND I LEARN AS I GO AND AM OPEN TO CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM JUST NOT GOING TO BE TALKED TO TREATED LIKE AN A^^ h^^^

I THINK THIS WHOLE THING STARTED OVER ONE TEXACO SIGN. IT'S NOT FOR SALE ANYMORE ILL JUST KEEP IT. HOPE EVERYONE FEELS BETTER NOW. IS THERE ANY OTHER SIGNS I HAVE POSTED THAT ANYONE HAS AN ISSUE WITH?
IF SO PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!

4 posts above this one, (the one to Dave's Garage) , you just edited off the comment that you have never sold with knowledge a fake sign on ebay. Tisk Tisk.

I AM GOING TO TRY NOT BE BE RUDE AND REACT OUT OF BEING UPSET, I UNDERSTAND EVERYONE HAS OPINIONS. IF THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH A PARTICULAR SIGN I HAVE POST I WOULD GLAD TO DISCUSS IT LIKE GENTLEMEN

jgoff,
Please clean your Keyboard, your CAP LOCK is stuck in the Upper Case position.

Jgoff, I realize the michelin and nafta are probably correct yet foreign, But the Pida valor oil and others have the red flag rusty back and chipping at mounting holes Yet NO Grommets! Nor does it look like there EVER was grommets...These are justifiable red flags! Then the fact you bought it from a KNOWN reproduction seller in multiples! Another HUGE red flag!
If someone asks if your sign is foreign or what the little writing at bottom says then answer truthfully and avoid alot of this problem.
For all we know you are Mr stensilwork from India himself with a fake account that set up shop in florida so dont get mad if we question your foreign signs that have serious RED FLags! Red Flags might be a good thing where you OR your signs come from BUT NOT in this country....

After reading this whole blog, first it you do not want to get burnt buy from a seller who guarantees what they sell. A seller like this will take the item back long after it is sold but you have to have hard proof that it is wrong.

Second educate your SELF. I have been burnt several times myself, learn from your mistakes.

On furin (foreign) signs there are a lot of great ones. I have found that most foreign made sign do not have grommets, these are real signs not repops. It they are USA made sign for a furin market they will have grommets. This is not written in stone this is just what I have noticed.

One last thing they have been making repops and fantasy signs for 50 years or more. Just because someone says I had that in my collection for 30 years and it cant be a repop, yes it can.

Dan

my comments were simply that what you post on here and what you post on ebay always tell 2 different stories. on here you'll try to pass it off as super rare and then post a price. on ebay you will add info on it that you cannot confirm and then you ask less money - there for exposing that you are trying to take advantage of people on the site. you dont post in any other discussions on this forum, so it shows you are simply fishing for buyers that might pull-the-trigger too early on one of your signs before researching it.

earlier this year your feedback on eBay was like 70%... so apparently its not only oldgas members that are noticing things.

you are correct that I dont know you, so shady might have been the wrong word to use. i think everyone on here just wants to make sure it feels like a community and if someone starts jeopardizing the trust then people react like so.

a lot of the questions people have could probably be answered by some background info on your signs instead of just saying, GREAT DEAL SUPER RARE NICE SIGN and other Ebay like title tags. tell us about the sign, where did it come from, where did you get it, no one is going to ridicule you for obtaining a sign from an auction or somewhere else... so there's no reason to always use 'a friend' & 'picking' as sources for the signs.

here is a link to a reproduction sign jgoff originally tried to pawn off as original!!! remember this??? NO he has NEVER done this before?????
REPO sign jgoff tried to sell as original
I looked thru all the signs he bought from guidoapothecary! Here is guidoapothecary's completed listings.
guidoapothecary completed listings
Lastly, The michelin man sign is BACK on ebay for sale by guidoapothecary!
MICHELIN
After seeing jgoff using guidoapothecary's photos, and the fact that they live close to each other, they both have similar foreign signs, Both argentina signs, etc etc...Im beginning to wonder if they are in cahoots or possibly the same person or team???
The birds of the same feather ALWAYS flock together...dont they?

Sorry Guido or Joe Goff, or whoever you are? I only made factual statements in starting this post. Me thinks tho dost protest too much??

It does not do this community much good to make judgements when you don't know much about the item in question. If you are not an experienced collector of South American signs, you really can't say for certain which sign is real and which is reproduction. You CAN say a sign is suspicious to you and that you wouldn't buy it.

To generalize and say that ALL items from a certain place or a certain seller are reproduction is carrying generalization too far. To say that YOU wouldn't buy from a certain place or seller because of what you have seen is more responsible.

Having doubts and suspicions is always enough to walk away from a sale. But unproven suspicions are not enough to absolutely brand everything that a seller has and his character.

But people are judged, fairly or not, by the company they keep. Vendors are judged by the items and the way they sell. Reputations can be damaged by reselling items from a tainted seller.

The responsible thing is to state only what you know for certain when it involves someone's reputation. Fair to say you would not buy an item or deal with a vendor. Not fair to call a vendor names and to make damaging statements as fact when they are really unproven opinions.

Amen, Jim. I'm just curious as to what effect it would have to this site if the "For sale, wanted, trade" forum was eliminated? I'm not suggesting for that to happen,but it appears that some members use the Oldgas site strictly for selling & nothing else, which in turn causes all of these arguments and mud slinging. My ears are tired!

Sam

Just as selling fakes can hurt the value of original items, calling an original a fake can do the same. I am no expert on signs, let alone foreign ones. A person can only do research and go on what he decides. As always with everything, buyer beware...

I'm with you with that suggestion or any new member has to post at least 50 messages in general petroliana or showcase before having the opportunity to sell an item so members registered here would be mostly collectors or passionate people and not only sellers who come here to sell items at high prices

but it's just my opinion

I've never been one to ignore the oblivious. You can look at any situation from whatever angle you want and convince yourself of whatever you want to believe. Some will have a bleeding heart approach while others will refuse to have the wool pulled over their eyes.

Facts speak louder then bleeding heart sentiments.

Facts are:

-In third world impoverished countries. Automobiles weren't as plentiful. The infrastructure to market and sell gas and oil did not come to be till much later. Items were sold in markets, where there was very little need for signage. Scrap metal had a higher demand and was re-purposed immediately because of the need for those raw commodities as well as no shortage of poor people looking for items to profit from. Very little if any signage was used in these markets and because of the demand for metals chances are slim of it surviving.

-Guidoapotecary sells reproduction signs.

-Jgoff has bought signs from this seller.

-Every sign Jgoff has sold or offered for sale are in Guidoapotecary's completed listings.

-All these signs exhibit telltale and similar characteristics of intentionally being aged and distressed.

-Jgoff is clearly buying multiples of these signs to resell for profit.

-Jgoff has sold these signs on this site without making full disclosure.

Just because you have bought a sign from a individual and feel it is right doesn't matter one bit. At the very least your opinion is bias and you have a vested monetary interest in believing the sign is legit. Every known seller of repops has unlimited numbers of positive feedback.

I am of the opinion that when people endorse or provide a character reference for another person it should be done with caution and responsibility. A good name and reputation should not be risked in the pursuit of wanting to be a bleeding heart liberal.

I have read my fair share of posts on this site that are critical of e-Bay for enabling sellers to market and sell their questionable merchandise. The above argument could be used by e-Bay to defend their position. If Oldgas.com wants to be a reactive site rather then a proactive site....well I have no control over that. In light of the debate surrounding the authenticity of these signs and the fact that it has been bought into question. It is my opinion it would be better to error on the side of caution. Why assume these signs are real in the absence of concrete proof that it is a repop? Wouldn't it be more wise to assume it is fake versus real?

I can only form my own conclusions and attempt to convey them while expressing my opinion. What others do with that information is their decision.

Don't lose sight of the fact that Jgoff is the author of his own fate here. This has come to be because, of his actions. Would you buy signs from Argentina continually and sell them as originals without disclosing all the facts? Is this not deceptive behavior? Where there is deception, their are ill intentions and victims!

Anyways, I've stated enough to clearly show where I stand. This is my last post on this thread.

That is one of the best responses EVER posted on oldgas!

Imo

Okay.... With the name calling. And honestly all the People throwing out BS on what is real in South America and what isn't? I will chime in again...

I've already shared this info with jgoff and some others on Oldgas....I am not an expert on signage... I did however, spend what I consider a fair amount of time in Argentina and other Country's in South and Central America in the mid 1970s... I was stationed at Balboa in Panama and was an "Instructor" at the "School of the America's"...

I contacted Mr. Harper because, I didn't find any images of the Texaco-Vacuum "NAFTA" sign on the 'net, that were over 5 years old ... Nor did I ever see such a sign, when I spent time in Argentina...

As I told jgoff, just because I never "noticed" such signage doesn't mean the signage is "fake"... But, it does give me question?....

But, so far the Corporate Historian of Texaco can't find an image of such a sign. Nor can he find any mention of a "JOINT VENTURE" between Texaco and Vacuum...

I have sent a request that the Historian for EXXON/Mobil contact Mr. Harper and/or myself and hopefully maybe he/she can either find mention of such a venture or he/she can tell us positively that there was no venture.

Again, as I related to jgoff, if there was no venture between Texaco and Vacuum? Then the sign is not real....

Until we have proof, either way... NO ONE KNOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been doing this a long time... I've seen some items that have "stumped" me... But, not a whole lot of them... This sign has me stumped... I've now seen 5 of these signs in the last 5 years... But, never saw one before 5 years ago....

Hello, I'm new here and reading this topic I could find this information.
In my opinion the sign is original, I know perfectly the signs in Argentina and Uruguay.
Hope this pictures can clear the issue.
Regards.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=es&...dFurT0wHgyYH4BQ

El thank you for commenting...

At least for me, images from Google are not proof...

Since you live in Argentina, have you seen such signs on old buildings? Do you have relatives who operated Texaco Gas Stations and such where they may have images of such signage?

Until the Historian at Texaco finds a mention of a Joint Venture between Texaco and Vacuum.... Well as I said before, if there was never a joint venture... Then there is NO WAY on God's Green Earth, that such a sign is "Real"...

not trying to stir the pot here but El Zahir has been a member on here for 1 week?

...Bob, I'm not so concerned with whether or not Texaco and Mobiloil had a jointly branded sign...I think they did - I know I've seen those signs before now...and I know from experience that company historians (with few exceptions) aren't nearly as precise with their info, nor as focused as some of us are on historical accuracy...

...the main 'red flags' to me are (1) the eBay seller that is providing jgoff's signs seems to have multiples of signs that normally wouldn't present themselves in multiples...and (2) the fact that they're coming from Argentina...the $#@& in Buenos Aires must be getting better at his work, after so much practice...

I've found it interesting reading these posts, and wasn't going to chime in cause I'm by no means a sign expert, but Dave's Garage makes a very good point in his last post. I lived in Chile for a little over two years from 2002-2004. During that time I was looking CONSTANTLY for gas/oil stuff to bring home with me...and I was in large cities, small country towns, antique shops, flea markets, etc., etc. I never saw ONE original sign. Four or five pumps (I shipped home a really weird visible), a number of ECO 98s, but NEVER an original sign. As I think about it, the reasoning Dave's Garage gives (re-purposing of metal, late advent of cars, etc.) makes perfect sense for why this is the case. Obviously this isn't dispositive of the issue, but it is a good point.

Great discussion.

I agree also Piokat, I want to see what the verdict is , got to soon leave for work and will miss all the excitement , you got any popcorn?

I contacted Dan Matthews asking when he first ran across a NAFTA Texaco/Vacuum sign?

He told me, he sold one in '97...

I may be totally out in "left field"... But, why hasn't this signage been "covered" before the late 90s.. ( as I said before, I have became "familiar with this sign" as of the last 5 years or so)...

I still can't wrap my mind around the "lack of mention" of what would have been the largest Joint Venture in the "Oil Business" at a time when the US Supreme Court was still going after Standard Oil and the "Baby Standard's"...

When the Texas Company and Standard Oil of CA formed Caltex, they announced the Joint Venture in "Every Trade Journal" throughout the World... This was in 1936... I can not imagine, that Texaco would not have done the same thing; announcing such a venture with Vacuum(Mobiloil)?....

I noticed the same thing.

He has only the one single post and it is about this topic.

He is also from Argentina.

I'm just making sure everyone has the big picture.

His Pms are full?

I passed on this sign for the "foreign" reason and it went for around $275 and I don't know if the buyer got boned or not because I could not confirm anything about it, even by checking thru the "Gargoyle God" on here! Thanx agan Richard! I believe it was Italian tho.
I am drooling over the reverse color Ford sign that he has for sale but again, it's foreign and I can't afford to take a chance.



I've always wanted to make a trip to South America to hunt for relics but after reading the stuff above from the people that have been there for extended periods of time when there was no one hunting for this stuff, I would not be looking for any signs and I don't think I could get past looking at all the gorgeous Latina Ladies!
So, I stay away from the foreign signs unless I come across a Canadian sign/s because I am somewhat close to the border and I know there will be some crossover of that stuff and I can't wait to come across it!
Kevin was doing the right thing by sharing his question of authenticity with us all and I have learned quite a bit from this thread and am very glad he started it. He also did it in a correct way with out making accusations but instead sharing his concerns with us all.
I am also very glad that we have a world wide membership on here of like minded people that try to help each other out more than attack each other. Folks like Nucky really help all of us identify european signs and I really hope that someone with experience joins here from South America, SOON!
With the seller saying he was pulling that sign and is willing to pull any others that there are questions about, I believe that he is trying to do the right thing and if he follows thru with those commitments, then in my mind he has done what needs to be done until they are found to be authentic or not.
If they are found to be fakes, then I hope he also chooses to do the right thing by marking them as such and from his actions and words, I believe he would do that.

That is kind of weird.

Seems strange that both Guido and El Zahir are both from Buenos Aires, Argentina!!!

You can type any location you want into your profile

The Google search for TEXACO item pictures on the internet or even old pictures of stations where signs were in use DOESN'T Prove that signs being sold are IN FACT THE REAL DEAL & Not REPOPs, as some of us suspect.

I don't get mad about questioning the signs sir. The thing was people weren't questioning them or saying anything to me they just make a post about it without saying anything to me. I also don'r know who this known sign seller is that is a known bad seller. know one has told me anything about this until now. i obviously need to find out some more info if i am missing something here.

ok i understand that and just because i don't post anywhere besides on the classifieds does not mean i am fishing for buyers. I just don't have tons of time so the time i do have i use buying and selling i haven't been a member on here forever. I would gladly tell someone more info about a sign if they wanted to know and are interested in one. I didn't think i have to write every detail on the first thread because that would take a long time i would just answer any questions when anyone has them. my ebay PERCENTAGE IS 95.5%
I START WITH A HIGHER PRICE AND AM WILL TO NEGOTIATE THAT'S HOW THE SELLING ANF BUYING PROCESS WORKS ANYONE WHO SEE'S A SIGN ON HERE IS WELCOME TO LOOK AND SEE IF I HAVE IT ON EBAY ALSO. TIME IS MONEY ALSO SO I WILL GO DOWN ON PRICE AFTER TIME PASSES AND I HAVEN'T SOLD A SIGN. THIS IS HOW I D IT AND EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO IT ANYWAY THEY CHOOSE. LIKE I SAID I HAVE NEVER SOLD A SIGN ON HERE TO SOMEONE THAT WASN'T HAPPY WITH THERE PURCHASE. SO YES CALLING ME SHADY WAS UNCALLED FOR BECAUSE YOU ARE JUDGING MY BUSINESS WITHOUT EVER DOING ANY BUSINESS WITH ME AND THATS NOT FAIR IN MY BOOK!

IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS GUIDO GUY?
YES I HAVE BOUGHT SIGNS FROM HIM AND DO BUSINESS WITH HIM AND HAVEN'T HAD ANY ISSUES WITH HIM. iS HE NOT A GOOD SELLER ?? WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH HIM AM I MISSING SOMETHING??
IT IS AMAZING HOW PEOPLE ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE BUSINESS WHEN IT HAS NO EFFECT ON THEM WHAT SO EVER.

FACTS LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE ON THOSE SIGNS YOU SPOKE ABOUT YA THAT IS A FACT!

jgoff, caps got stuck again. is that a foreign keyboard by any chance?

I HAVE NOT BEEN DECEPTIVE TO ANYONE I HAVE CLEARLY STATED TRUE ANSWERS WHEN ASKED ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY OF THE SIGNS I POST. HAVE EVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA OR SOUTH AMERICA ? IF YOU HAVE YOU WOULD KNOW THAT OLD STUFF IS PREVALENT AND NOT JUST TRASHED LIKE IT WAS IN THE US. ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS ARE YOUR OPINIONS. YOU BASE ALL YOU INFO OF OF WHAT YOU THINK NOT FACT! IF YOU DON'T LIKE A SIGN DON'T BUY IT. IT IS NOT FAIR TO SAY I HAVE BE DECEPTIVE WHEN I HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY OPEN AND HONEST WHEN ASKED ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY SIGNS I HAVE POST. YOU HAVE NEVER EVEN ASKED ME A QUESTION SO YOU DEFINITELY WOULDN'T KNOW THAT ANSWER. MY OPINION IS THAT YOU ARE RUDE AND DISRESPECTFUL AND ARE QUICK TO MAKE JUDGEMENT ON SOMEONE WITHOUT EVEN HEARING WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY. I WOULD APPRECIATE IF KEPT MY NAME OUT OF YOUR POSTS YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW ME AND HAVE NO RIGHT TO CRITICIZE ME. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO DO SO MY GRANDFATHER WHO HAS BEEN AN ATTORNEY FOR 25 YEARS WILL GLADLY SOME FACTS. HAVE A GOOD ONE BUDDY!

omg
he lawyered up!

get the popcorn!

oops!
I meant

GET THE POPCORN!

im wondering who the heck he is talking to. its like watching a bipolar hypochondriac!

************************************************************

lol, come on guys I'm trying to go to bed, but I don't want to miss anything.

i like foreign women!

This is better then a Reality show on TV; about ever three to four months a new seller (picker) comes along and entertains us!

first picker ive seen that only uses us foreign mail to get product!

jgoff, I believe in the "Computer World" using all caps; Is the same as shouting at the readers.... And it does seem to bother quite a few people...

It's hard on the eyes to read as well.
http://uxmovement.com/content/all-caps-hard-for-users-to-read/

Thank you Ron.

My calculations puts you at about 15 years old OR LESS!

I don't know if this will help but this one is 36" and has been hanging here for 15 years. Definitely dates to the transition period. We have always thought it came from Mexico but we don't read Spanish. Cool sign though sorry the image is so small I only use my phone for photos and am tec illiterate.

WOW, you go to one birthday party and miss out on all of this!

Sheesh this is going to be alot of catching up reading.

I missed swamp people tonight for this,and I think it was worth it!That is saying a lot for a Mississippi boy ya'll!

Perfect example!

Good point, I am using caps to make a point. Should I care if this upsets anyone after all the garbage they have said about me ? I DON'T THINK SO

I have a ton of sign from the USA and sold a bunch from the USA. I have only recently started venturing into Canadian, Europeon, and South American signs. thanks

SO, how old is Grand Dad?

Man if this is a fake, it is a good one .I just want to ask if anyone noticed the shade of the green in the green T .It is close to the same shade as the 40's and 50's Texaco signs that I have .The newer repops that I have seen all have a much lighter shade of green in the green T .The rust doe's look like it is new,and I do not see any scaling or pitting at all in the rust.I have restored many metal toys ,and when you have that much rust you almost always have pitting in the rusty areas.

To Bob Richards......I'll be very surprised if you hear back from ExxonMobil on your question. The Mobil archives and related collection were donated to the University of Texas at Austin a few years after the merger. I suspect the position of Archivists/Historian was also eliminated. Respectfully, I think you are wrong about the Texaco/Mobiloil sign. There are most certainly reproductions but also originals that were used somewhere south of the US border. Having lived thru the Exxon/Mobil merger, I'd be very surprised if the folks at Chevron/Texaco know much or care much about the history of the stuff we all hold so valuable. Of course, I could be wrong, and have been in the past.

Richard

I was also looking for popcorn. I just don't trust the sign.

Also, I had stated before that currently I am in the Dominican Republic. I have been diligently looking for any signs both on the streets and through craigslist. I have yet to find anything. The comment earlier about countries being low on resources and scrapping everything holds true. Look at the USA for example.
Every town in the USA had at a minimum 1 gas station by the 40's. do some simple math and you would figure we should be swimming in signs and memorabilia. Yet things are hard to find and most time when you do find it its destroyed or significantly rusted. There is a reason why signs are hard to find. Signs were sent to the scrap yard for money. The fact that this specific sign has not shown up till the 90' is a little far fetched I'd say.
But, then again maybe this is the reason why no one has seen this sign and its truly an anomaly to make it through the years with out being found. Just my thoughts but I'd stay away from it.

...you're wrong - you're essentially acting as a middleman on Oldgas, for signs that have their origins in a foreign city well-known for counterfeiting signs...if you had taken a moment to read through Oldgas before posting all of your Argentinian signs, you might have found the older posts discussing counterfeit Argentinian signs:

http://oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=148609

http://oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=113856

http://oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=174233

...it's apparent that you didn't do this - at best, you just spent a lot of money with 'guido' and thought 'I can mark these up and sell them on Oldgas'...

...a good many (can't say 'most' because of all those inspired by American Peckers) of those on Oldgas have a lot of time and money invested in their collection, and counterfeit signs have a negative effect on our investments...so, yeah, it IS my business and the business of anyone else on Oldgas, who cares about preventing the counterfeiters from ruining the hobby in their pursuit of easy money...

It's none of my business that the elderly woman next to me just dropped her groceries... but I'll still pick them up for her.

it's called human nature, if I can help someone out by giving them an educated opinion or a friendly caution message... then I will.

OH IT IS OUR BUSINESS Jgoff...we are like family here...You screw with one of us, you screw with the whole bunch. Your signs are fake, keep them off of this site and that part of the drama will be over. Keep putting them on e-bay and we will continue to warn people about it. If you truly have been duped into thinking that they are real by unscrupulous people, then your concern is with them, not us. The sign experts have done all they can. Take it or leave it, everyone of us was at one time an inexperienced newbie and we have probably all been fooled on some level at some time. But thankfully there are caring people around that will warn the newbies of possible problems with questionable "memorabilia". So continue to whine about your impuned character if you wish, but the jig is up. The phillips 66 sign did it for me months ago. IMO you should be blocked from the sight and banned. Good day sir!

[quote=jgoff]I have a ton of sign from the USA and sold a bunch from the USA. I have only recently started venturing into Canadian, Europeon, and South American signs.

Your English and sentence structure is suspect. No one refers to our country as USA. Foreigners do.

Thats right this is "Merica"!

AGREED!

Mike,
Your location in your Profile here on this forum says, "Millbrae, Ca U.S.A." as does a bunch of other members, with dots and without. (U.S.A. or USA)

"sign Experts" all of you think your sign experts. A real sign expert would say "I have to see and touch and feel a sign to tell exactly what it is!"

Baily Bee
Are you going call the old lady a clumsy old hag for dropping her groceries ? Like you called someone you don't know or haven't done business shady

IF I SOLD A SIGN THAT WASN'T THE REAL DEAL OR THERE WAS ANY ISSUE WITH IT I WOULD GLADLY REFUND ANY BUYER AND TAKE CARE OF THE SITUATION. I AM NOT TRYING TO FOOL ANYONE. IT'S NOT THAT HARD OF A CONCEPT TO GRASP. I GLADLY APPRECIATE ANYONE WHO POINTS OUT THINGS THAT I DO NOT KNOW AS FAR AS HELPING WITH MAKING SURE WHAT I BUY AND SELL IS GOOD STUFF. IT'S PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW TO TALK TO SOMEONE OR COMMUNICATE IN A CIVIL MANOR THAT I HAVE PROBLEMS WITH.
TREAT OTHERS HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED.

...only if she yells at me and tries passing her can of spam off as a ham

THIS IS ENOUGH ON THIS TOPIC

or in a more civil tone ...

This is enough on this topic