#433380
Tue Jun 19 2012 12:23 AM
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THIS 1930 PHILLIPS PORCELAIN NOS SIGN DOUBLE SIDED. THIS WAS BEFORE PHILLIPS ACTUALLY BECAME PHILLIP'S 66. THIS SIGN IS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION AND IS A 9+ TO 10. THE SIGN IS AS CLOSE TO PERFECT AS POSSIBLE ESPECIALLY FOR THE AGE OF THE SIGN, WITH ONLY A FEW VERY MINOR TINY CHIPS AND MARKS ON THE VERY EDGE OF THE SIGN WHICH CAN ONLY BE SEEN EXAMINING THE SIGN VERY CLOSE. THE SIGN IS JUST UNDER 30" DIAMETER. THESE ARE VERY VALUABLE AND HARD TO FIND! I AM ASKING ABOUT HALF OF WHAT THERE WORTH, THE LAST ONE I SEEN WAS $3,300 AND NOT IN AS GOOD AS CONDITION AS MINE. I AM ASKING $1800 O.B.O I'LL CONSIDER REASONABLE OFFERS CALL(850) 200 6619 THANKS FOR VEIWING    
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Same sign listed on eBay 251080853019
In the past 6 months a couple buyers not impressed.
Do you GUARANTEE the sign to be authentic or have friends from India??
Ron Gordon
Cell: 815.762.2616
Email: flash03@comcast.net
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I am always looking for anything Texaco or Oklahoma oil and gas company's, also I am a newbie at seeking globes.
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This is not an original sign. These signs have been showing up at swaps and auctions.
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why are you just asking half of what it is worth?
I don't recall ever selling anything I owned for half of what it is worth.
can we see the back of the sign?
Thanks!
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...hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the sign pictured above is either an outright fake, or a heavily restored sign...
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
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This is not an original sign. These signs have been showing up at swaps and auctions. I thought I could smell a repop.
I am always looking for anything Texaco or Oklahoma oil and gas company's, also I am a newbie at seeking globes.
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Will you guarantee 100% original or money back like your Texaco sign?
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I had several emails back and forth from this seller when he first put it on ebay! I don't believe he's trying to rip anyone off but he's another prime example of the damage that these unmarked reproductions will do! The uneducated(myself included) have to be able to access others that are more experienced with these different rare signs! He was obviously fed a line of bull that led him to think he was getting a real deal on a very rare sign and now he's only got a nice target! Too Bad!
Here's his reply to my inquiry while it was on E-bay!
QUOTE--"I did all the research i could do on my side. Ive had it looked at by multiple people and talked to the auction i purchased it from and had them contact the consigner. I just wanted to know how you came to the conclusion it was a repo without seeing the sign. what actually stands out and makes you say "that's a reproduction?"
Of course, hes been told its a reproduction and he's still trying to sell it as an original too!!
Last edited by K W FRITH; Tue Jun 19 2012 06:28 AM. Reason: added last line
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The font of "gasoline" and "motor oil" are off and stand out in the sign. It would be easier to tell if someone posted a pic of a real one
see me at Mason Dixon Gas, Spring Carlisle M114-115, and Hershey C4E-35.
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On the 30 inch repop porcelain signs here's a list of ones I have seen. A guy in NC made them...they include: Gulf, Phillips 66 (like this one), Phillips 66 Ethyl, Sinclair HC, Sinclair w/ Stripes (this one is blue lol), Pontiac, Sunbeam (red version and white version), Caterpillar, Super Chevrolet, Rebel, Mustang, Buick, Cadillac, Texaco (6 foot round look however 30 inch), Texaco Sky Chief, Pennzoil (2 versions I believe), Standard Oil w/ Torch, Globe (incorrect mounting holes w/ super blurred graphics), also a small double sided porcelain Shell sign (not 30 inch). They appear to be made from the small repop versions and "blown up" to size...I heard the fellow that made them was busted when retrieving a crate at a ship port...I do not know who it was...just heard a few stories from other guys here in North Carolina...if you do not know they are very deceiving because they are shelved like earlier signs and not marked (they are blurry and the fonts are off, etc) or they do not match the originals they were patterned after...
Wanted: Husky Cans/Signs, Interesting Pump Plates and NC Road Signage Website www.petrojoe.com
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Last edited by always lookin; Tue Jun 19 2012 06:41 AM.
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I have an original 30" and 60". I'll try to get some pics up today. Dave
Dave
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always lookin--I don't think you have the whole line copied?
OK--worked when I tried it again!
Last edited by K W FRITH; Tue Jun 19 2012 07:57 AM.
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always lookin--I don't think you have the whole line copied? Link worked for me, might be browser issue?
Jon
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heres the pic in the link
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that is the 1927 and earlier they made two colors of the sign first off all the red and orange smart guy. Second of all no i haven't been told or do i know if this is a repop. I have taken it to a guy g i know in the business and have been told it's the real deal or the best fake he has ever seen, the only person that has said repop are people online that haven't even seen the sign in person, which you can't tell without looking touching and seeing the sign in person it's easy to say things from your couch but to really tell someone would need to see it. I've been trying to figure all the info i can on the sign. The auction I bought told me they would give me back my money if it isn't the real thing. I am just not 100% sure either way. The guy I trust that he thought it was the real deal but he is a coke cola guy more than petroliana. I am going to have his father look at it and his father owened a phillips gas station way back for years.
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I am open to peoples comments and people trying to help me figure this sign out, i am green when it comes to this stuff i have only been buying and selling for a couple years. I don't appreciate the rude comments but those are mostly people that are of low character. I just don't see how people can say oh that's a repop just by a picture. there are some marks on the edge of the sign that a guy that know porcelain very well told me that it takes like 50 years to get those spots on the edge of the sign. So that's where i'm at with this, I've been told it's a fake by people i don't know, but not by anyone who has actually seen the sign. I am selling it as what it was sold to me at auction as, until i have someone that know signs well enough and can look at it for me and give me an exact 100% proof that it's not the real deal
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friends from India?? what's that have to do with the sign, making it a racial issue, your a real winner i'm sure.
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To make a quick sale, one of those pictures is the back it is double sided.
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Thank you, I am not trying to rip anyone off at all I am an honest person that loves petroliana and coke signs and that's about it. I appreciate input that's not rude and that is helpful.
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The India Comment has nothing to do with race. There are boat-loads of fake signs showing up on ebay and other places for sale of fake unmarked signs from India and Argentina. They are the ruining this hobby in my opinion.
Got Socony???
Tom
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oh okay, well this isn't your average fake if it is a fake i mean it has all the rite things and looks just as real as can be. I wish i knew someone close to my area that is a professional in this field and could tell me for sure what i have so i can solve this issue
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The font is not off it is the exact as all of these i have seen.
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Jgoff reproduction signs are a major problem, as exemplified by this thread. As witnessed by you in this thread, they evoke all kinds of emotions and responses. Unfortunately, not everyone is diplomatic or tactful on this site.
Most of the individuals that have responded are very knowledgeable and have been following this hobby for many years. As you are beginning to learn or are about to learn; there is no substitute for experience.
The 30 inch round procelain signs are the 2nd most common reproduced signs (12" inch most common). Unfortunately, Auction Houses and e-Bay are the mode of choice used by those pawning off repro's as originals. If you come across a 30" porcelain single sided or double sided sign in mint or near mint condition it is more then likely a reproduction. Some people go to great lengths to make these signs look old such as distressing them (chipping the porcelain and then treating the chipped areas with acid to promote corrosion). The foregoing may help you understand the level of suspicion that your sign has been met by.
None of these posts are personal attacks on you but rather an indication of the frustration and anger that these reproductions instil amongst collectors.
There are some things that only come, once you have put your time in and paid your dues. This is one of those things where a few us can say with some level of confidence that your sign is a reproduction without having to handle it.
You are still fortunate that you can get your money back from the Auction House. My suggestion is that you exercise that right at your earliest convenience.
The question that begs to be asked in my opinion is; why didn't you post some of your past experience in your original post such as you being unsure of it's authenticity and the failed sales on e-Bay. In small communities such as Oldgas.com you only get one chance at credibility and most people who loss it are never able to 100% redeem themselves in the eyes of the majority.
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
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Jgoff reproduction signs are a major problem, as exemplified by this thread. As witnessed by you in this thread, they evoke all kinds of emotions and responses. Unfortunately, not everyone is diplomatic or tactful on this site.
Most of the individuals that have responded are very knowledgeable and have been following this hobby for many years. As you are beginning to learn or are about to learn; there is no substitute for experience.
The 30 inch round procelain signs are the 2nd most common reproduced signs (12" inch most common). Unfortunately, Auction Houses and e-Bay are the mode of choice used by those pawning off repro's as originals. If you come across a 30" porcelain single sided or double sided sign in mint or near mint condition it is more then likely a reproduction. Some people go to great lengths to make these signs look old such as distressing them (chipping the porcelain and then treating the chipped areas with acid to promote corrosion). The foregoing may help you understand the level of suspicion that your sign has been met by.
None of these posts are personal attacks on you but rather an indication of the frustration and anger that these reproductions instil amongst collectors.
There are some things that only come, once you have put your time in and paid your dues. This is one of those things where a few us can say with some level of confidence that your sign is a reproduction without having to handle it.
You are still fortunate that you can get your money back from the Auction House. My suggestion is that you exercise that right at your earliest convenience.
The question that begs to be asked in my opinion is; why didn't you post some of your past experience in your original post such as you being unsure of it's authenticity and the failed sales on e-Bay. In small communities such as Oldgas.com you only get one chance at credibility and most people who loss it are never able to 100% redeem themselves in the eyes of the majority. I dont think this could have been said any better.
FREEDOM oil items wanted.
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The font is not off it is the exact as all of these i have seen. ...believe me, it's off - I'm a graphic designer, and I can tell from the photo...
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
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The signs I mentioned in one of my posts were supposedly made in Romania...they are shelved and feel pretty much just like the early porcelain signs...Here's a link to the Sinclair 30 incher repop pictured here on oldgas... http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=237041#comments
Wanted: Husky Cans/Signs, Interesting Pump Plates and NC Road Signage Website www.petrojoe.com
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There are alot of years of experience in this forum I myself have been collecting for over thirty years and feel I can spot a repop pretty easily but I am not perfect by any means. My gut feeling is though this is a repop sign comparing it to some originals. Take that thing back and get your money back!
I am always looking for anything Texaco or Oklahoma oil and gas company's, also I am a newbie at seeking globes.
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Very well worded Dave!
I'm not sure of the realistic value of that sign, as an original, but I would think that one in that condition and verified as an original would bring $4000+, or am I off a ways here? Anyway, my point is that a lot of very experienced sign collectors have passed on this sign at the bargain price of $1800???? That in itself should tell the owner all he needs to know.
There isn't a one of us that wants to devalue an original sign, its just these unmarked reproductions that have hurt so many collectors!
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Sometimes its not always good to judge a sign by the price of it. Just because somthing is cheap does not make it fake. I do understand kevins outlook on why someone would discount a high price item so much. In this case i believe it is because of the authenticity of the sign but i have seen many nice, unrestored originals heavily discounted from what we as collector "think" an item is worth. I do agree this sign is not correct.
Last edited by 57tbirdkid; Tue Jun 19 2012 02:47 PM.
The most valuable commodity I know of is information-Wall Street
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On the 30 inch repop porcelain signs here's a list of ones I have seen. A guy in NC made them...they include: Gulf, Phillips 66 (like this one), Phillips 66 Ethyl, Sinclair HC, Sinclair w/ Stripes (this one is blue lol), Pontiac, Sunbeam (red version and white version), Caterpillar, Super Chevrolet, Rebel, Mustang, Buick, Cadillac, Texaco (6 foot round look however 30 inch), Texaco Sky Chief, Pennzoil (2 versions I believe), Standard Oil w/ Torch, Globe (incorrect mounting holes w/ super blurred graphics), also a small double sided porcelain Shell sign (not 30 inch). They appear to be made from the small repop versions and "blown up" to size...I heard the fellow that made them was busted when retrieving a crate at a ship port...I do not know who it was...just heard a few stories from other guys here in North Carolina...if you do not know they are very deceiving because they are shelved like earlier signs and not marked (they are blurry and the fonts are off, etc) or they do not match the originals they were patterned after... Grabber , is one of the Pennzoil's the 30"tan one, with the bell? I saw a supposedly mint one that just didnt "feel" right when I looked at it, sell for 3K in a auction a couple months ago. My $.02- and I could be wrong,the sign doesnt appear properly. I'm no Phillips guy, but were the originals marked in any way?
Last edited by JimT; Tue Jun 19 2012 04:26 PM.
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i believe one of these was sold at showtime auctions last time i was there. it looked fake as a scam and was but it still sold for a grip...........just my 2 cents.......
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One of what? The Pennzoil or the Phillips?
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I am pretty sure i found a repop gulf The letters on gulf are not right and the colors are off i will try and get a pic of it.
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jgoff,
These are your words:
"I am not trying to rip anyone off at all I am an honest person that loves petroliana and coke signs and that's about it."
I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the above statement is true. That being said why not suspend the sale of the sign on this website and cancel your ebay auction until you know for sure one way or another as to the origin of this sign?
Just my two cents.
I offer quart can re-lidding, can rolling, lid stamping, and dent removal.
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I can't believe no one has mentioned the glaring evidence that makes this sign suspect.
Look at the "M" and "S" in Motor oils. These are computer generated. Why is the "S" in Motor oils different than the one in Gasoline? Those two letters are from a style (font) that was created in the 1950's. or 1960's. Definately too new to be correct on your sign.
I won't say your sign is a fake without seeing it in person but I will say it isn't an authentic original.
ROD [Mich.]
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Tee Tee....I agree!
end the auction.... now that absolutely no one on here has told you that it is 'real'..and if you can get your money back then I'd be doing it!
I'm pretty sure you've learned alot over this...
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I called the auction house and told them to contact the consigner so i could get my money back if it is a fake.
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yet it is still for sale on Ebay....
'if it is a fake'....IF
Alot of guys have commented on giving you the benefit of the doubt on the whole 'honesty' thing....
I have not ... and probably will not make that comment since you continue to list it on Ebay and you are still in denial that the sign is fake!
'IF' ....come on ....it's fake.
If somebody did the 'buy it now' on Ebay....would you sell it to them after everything that has been said on here?
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Remember you are only as good as your help
If you don't make any noise no one will hear you!
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I WILL DO THAT, THIS IS THE MOST INFO OR TALK ABOUT THE SIGN I HAVE HAD. I HAD THE AUCTION COMPANY GUARANTEE ME IS WHAT WAS THE REAL DEAL SO I THOUGHT IT WAS , ALSO ONE GUY THAT IS PRETTY GOOD WITH THIS SORT OF STUFF ALSO THOUGHT IT WAS THE REAL DEAL BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE MARKINGS ON THE EDGE OF THE SIGN THAT TAKES LIKE 50 YEARS TO FORM. SO MAYBE IT WAS AN OLD BLACK BLANK THE WAS REDONE OR SOMETHING I JUST DON'T KNOW. THE GUY WHO LOOKED AT IT SPECIALIZES IN COKE COLA NOT PETROLIANA THOUGH, HE SAID IF IT IS FAKE IT ONE OF THE BEST FAKES HE HAS EVER SEEN. I WILL TAKE IT OFF EBAY THOUGH UNTIL I KNOW FOR SURE. IT'S HARD TO TELL WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A PIC OF THE SAME SIGN FROM THAT YEAR. THEY CHANGED FROM THE ORANGE THEY USED IN 1927 TO THE RED IN 1930 THAT I DO KNOW. BUT THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT BUDDY.
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YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SIGN FIRST OF ALL AND IT HARD TO TELL FROM PICTURES SECOND OF ALL. THESE ARE ALL OPINION'S AND I AM GOING TO TAKE IT OFF EBAY. I JUST HAVEN'T GOT AROUND TO DO IT. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF ME REGARDLESS OF THE SITUATION. I THINK YOU SEEM LIKE A REAL LOW CHARACTER GUY THAT LIKES TO TALK SMACK ON PEOPLE YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW. WHY DON'T YOU KEEP YOUR RUDE COMMENTS TO YOURSELF AND WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN BUSINESS BUDDY!
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denial...
several guys have given you specific facts about why it is fake......
they have decades of experience!
and you still believe its real.
the auction company does not want to pony up for the sign...so they guarantee it to be real.
it is not.
This is absolutely unbelievable to me!
Good Luck with all your future endeavors!
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This is going downhill. Very knowledgeable experienced people have weighed in on this, but appears no amount of that will convince this seller.
A great example why unmarked reproductions are hurting our hobby.
Topic locked.
Jim "Oldgas" Potts
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