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#503682 Tue Jan 07 2014 08:16 PM
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OK--This is a toughy! I just don't believe this sign is an original Cities Service advertising sign, but I can't prove it!
Cities Service Koolmotor Flange
These signs first surfaced for me about 5 or 6 years ago when I bought one on ebay! When I received it, I was immediately alarmed because it looked to have been clear coated? Closer inspection revealed a very bubbly looking surface over different parts of the sign, like there had been air bubbles in the clear coat? Being pretty spooked, I returned the sign and promptly got a call from the owner.
He explained where he was from and that his father had just died and these were left to him in the estate and couldn't be reproductions! He said he knew his father had them for at least 30 years or more. I explained my concerns and politely asked for a refund, which was granted.
Since I am always watching ebay for Cities items, I bought another one about a year later and when I received it, it was the same as the first sign. NOW I was really confused?? Had I made a mistake on the first one, or had this come from the same person?? I contacted the seller and found that it had indeed come from the same estate in Sioux Falls, SD and the seller apologized and refunded me.
About a year after that, I had a chance to buy one thru an Old Gas connection and again it was the same thing but the signs origin was unknown? Shortly after that, I was contacted by one of the regulars from this site, as to the authenticity of a Cities flange he had just purchased. Again it had the same condition issues and I can't remember the origin of that one?
Since then, I had the opportunity to buy one from a friend and when I got it, it had some of the same traits but not as bad, so I kept it and still have it.
After that, I was contacted by a picker that had just come into possession of a large quantity of these signs from an estate in Sioux Falls, SD, and when I was told the story, it matched exactly to the story I was told by the owner of the sign in my first ebay purchase! Only difference is that he had bought several items from them and part of his buy was 40+ of these Cities Service flange signs!
Now, even if the man had been a Cities Service distributor, I find it odd that there would have been 40+ of these signs saved in his possession??? Very strange to me, but not impossible I guess?
Well, every one of them supposedly has the same condition issues and I'm still mystified by the clearcoating??
A-M signs made most of Cities Service painted signs, including this particular flange. I have 2 other Cities flanges (Kerosene, and Naptha) and the green coloration is different--no bubbles--no clearcoat?
I bought an unbent flange that was taken from the A-M warehouse a few years ago, and it is the exact same as my other flanges!
I'm really wondering about this sign, because I can't prove where it came from, and neither can any one else--its not marked. The lettering and design seem correct, and it looks very nice, but its one of those suspect signs that we will never know the truth about!
I just find it hard to believe that A-M signs would have let those signs out with the condition issues I've mentioned? Also if you take paint that hasn't quite cured and spray another coat from a different type paint on it, I have seen these exact type of bubbles appear before in my own work?
If its a reproduction, they did a nice job, but botched it with the clear coat and probably ruined the value of any Cities Service Koolmotor flange for forever?
Like I said, I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, but there are too many red flags for me and these signs are going to continue to surface with that many of them being found!
Be your own judge if you're buying one and make a close inspection. Others may have a completely different opinion than me!


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Kevin, a few months ago I did the same research as you... just without buying multiple of them so I didnt have them in hand. I contacted several people here on OldGas that I found in the archives that do or did own of these.

EVERY single one of them had the condition issues that you speak of. and now there is one on ebay now, there was one a few weeks ago, and there is one on a auctionzip auction as well.

I came to the same conclusion you have, and decided to avoid all of these 'bubbly' koolmotor flange. Another common trait is tiny pieces of paper stuck to them. I also dont think the truth will ever be known because so many are convinced these are aunthentic, and because there has been heavy investment of around $600-$700 per sign this has resulted in make-up stories about the bubbling resulting from being NOS and the original packing paper being pressed against the sign for so long.

After doing my due diligence, I decided to pass on these flange signs because there were just too many flags being raised. Thanks for bringing this up, as I wanted to... but thought I would be ridiculed because I know how many collectors on here own one.


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Is it a possibility these signs were produced for Cities Service by whomever and the whole lot was rejected by them for the same reasons as you describe (bubbles etc.) ? might explain why one person had large quantity of them ? just a thought


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Kevin, I believe this same flange sign is in the upcoming Miller auction, wonder if that one is marked and/or has the same condition issues? Guess a guy could always give them a call and inquire about condition/markings. Was actually thinking about bidding on this one.


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last one sold brought a whopping 911... cool

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vinage-NOS-Tin-C...n-/191001355936


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Steve--If you like it, buy it! The only reason that I brought this up was because of all the questions this sign has raised for me over the years and it really bothers me! I'm sure not saying its a phony because I can't prove it one way or another?
You'll have to decide that on your own.


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Kevin, it does seem to have an off green color. Maybe a bit darker green than it should. Always hard to tell on something like that without seeing in person. I would think if its Cities and you're skeptical. Thats more than enough reason to avoid this one until something more certain can be established.


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Originally Posted By: advertologist
last one sold brought a whopping 911... cool

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vinage-NOS-Tin-C...n-/191001355936


HHhhmmmm? Same seller as the current one on ebay! One a month for forty months?


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Since its colder than a well diggers A** and can't do much around the farm I'll give the Miller guys a call in the morning and see what I can find out about their flange. I'll let you know.


Steve
Bbburke #503696 Tue Jan 07 2014 08:55 PM
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The best of my knowledge is that the bolts holes should not be aligned straight up and down on the flange. I have one and mine does not have that look like your talking about. Holes are right. Colors right. I don't know.

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Seems strange someone would have so many of that particular sign in such good condition. Then again, if it is some kind of reject for one reason or another. I could see were one person might have ended up with multiples. Seems strange though. I guess we will have to wait and see.


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[/quote]HHhhmmmm? Same seller as the current one on ebay! One a month for forty months? [/quote]

a kool 36k.. cool


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Bbburke #503703 Tue Jan 07 2014 09:18 PM
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When in Doubt, walk away.

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The more you think about ebay detail. The more suspicious it seems. 36k. Thats alot of signs spread out over a long period of time. Seems to me if you did stumble upon a large number of one sign like that. You wouldnt methodically get rid of them at such a slow rate. Even a collector wouldnt want more than a couple to keep for themself and would get rid of rest as soon as possible. Not like that for 3 1/2 years. Im going with fraud


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Bbburke #503708 Tue Jan 07 2014 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bbburke
The more you think about ebay detail. The more suspicious it seems. 36k. Thats alot of signs spread out over a long period of time. Seems to me if you did stumble upon a large number of one sign like that. You wouldnt methodically get rid of them at such a slow rate. Even a collector wouldnt want more than a couple to keep for themself and would get rid of rest as soon as possible. Not like that for 3 1/2 years. Im going with fraud


not necessarily, if you found a case of NOS 1500. oil cans & flooded the market- you'd be shooting yourself
in the foot- one every 6 mo. for a maximum return & a little extra income for 12 yrs.. cool


RANDY
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