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Relocating an early sign post #509670
Thu Jan 30 2014 07:36 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 07:36 AM
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Posts: 186
Florida
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Boxcar Offline OP
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So I've just bought an early sign post from a station in town and I'm thinking thru the take down and new install in front of my shop.

Tried to do a search on all things "sign post" and found nothing.

So tossing some ideas on the wall. Will take some pics and post as soon as I can.

The post is around 15 ft tall, cast iron, octogon(ish) at the base and tapered to the top. Cross-bar with finneals (sp) and a curvy flat-stock iron support running from the Cross-bar (what the sign hangs off of)to the post. Very heavy and has a few items to AVOID around it like a mounted USPS mega mailbox (about 20 boxes) and a power line. The take down will be done with the aid of a backhoe. Equipment will steady and lower after I either torch the nuts or both nuts and bolts.

As far as the install at the new location (my place) My question is how others may have done it. The bolts are around 1in dia or better. I'm prepared to build some sort of a "Basket" assembly that will get submurged into the concrete during the pour. I'm interested in how others designed their "basket".

I'll probally have this basket positioned and hainging in the form before the pour so I can level it up better..

Where can a guy buy that "Island metal baseboard stuff"??? Forms the outside of the pour. Must Google search that stuff...

At the moment I'm thinking of 6 sticks of 5/8 in all thread or #4 rebar (5/8) arranged vertically

with some 1/4 flat iron arranged horozontally to allow for main bolt hainger and all-thread/rebar web support

I believe a "three tier" tower approach would be good as it would easly allow a better cross connection throughout the structure.

Please pardon me for the crude drawing. It's best I can do at 7am and half a pot of coffee! I passed up HS drafting for an additional year of woodshop! It's not very to scale but should ID my thoughts at the moment.


I believe 5/8 rebar would be cheaper than all thread and a welded connection via a thru-hole in the 1/4 plate would weld up good to the rebar. I guess I'd try to paint with something that'll hold up well in the concrete pier.

I thought about leaving enough threads topside of the concrete to support leveling bolts under the post but believe that it may look better flat and level on the pier with no gap?????

Thoughts? suggestions welcomed.

Boxcar

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Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: Boxcar] #509679
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:11 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:11 AM
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Midwest
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Signs&Neons Offline
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I would use J bolts, or at least much longer bolts with a large washer nutted on the bottom end so bolts cannot pull out of concrete. I would also use the leveling nuts below the pole to get it perfectly pole aligned perfectly. You can then use a heavy grout tucked under pole to finish it off nicely.

Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: Boxcar] #509690
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:37 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:37 AM
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Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
JimT Offline
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This is brought up periodically on Oldgas and there are lots of old post discussing it. It usually ends up with every one that has an opinion on it saying what is enough and what isnt enough. Different parts of the country have different soils. In Florida the ground is usually sandy and your pole may be subjected to some hurricane force winds. You may be shocked to find what is recommended for your area.-depth-wise. If you have a shop, I guess you'll have to get a permit? That might be a bit of a pain. Not getting the permit, but what might be required. I've been involved with lots of engineered pole and sign foundations in N. Ohio and I can tell you they are always pretty substantial. I wont recommend how deep,wide or what size bolts and rebar you will need, but I will say, right now your quite ways under the mark(Commercial/Engineered/code/whatever)wise.
Around here, the anchor bolts can be threaded rod with a washer sandwiched between two nuts on the end that gets inserted into the concrete.(opposed to hook bolts) 5/8" probably aint gonna cut it. (depending on how many) And they will have to be pretty long too-like3-4 feet. A fifteen foot pole really isnt a lot of leverage at the base-though it depends on the size of your sign, wind, ect.Usually we bolt these to a plywood template and "Milk" them into the wet concrete. That way, you can pour the concrete into the form and if the reinforcement moves a little, it wont effect your bolt location. The reinforcement encircles the bolts and projects downward to near the bottom of your foundation so the block of concrete splits neither long ways or side ways. In soft or sandy ground, a spread footer is sometimes necessary with the rebar cage protruding up and a sonotube foundation placed and poured then backfilled.
If you go to a good concrete supply company in your area, they should be able to sell you the cardboard sonotube form, the corresponding prebent circular rebar(for horizontal) and the straight pieces to cut up for your verticals. then you can either tie w/tie wire(an art) or weld your cage. They also sell round plastic spacers that clip on the rebar that will keep your rebar cage in position top to bottom,side to side.
Your foundation should be poured separate and with an expansion joint from surrounding concrete or youll get unsightly cracks.
Sound to complicated? you can just wing it-just remember itll be a bear to deal with if anything moves later. You dont always know if you overbuilt something but you damn sure do find out if you under built it. Remember, a cantilevered sign has a lot of pressure near the bottom, opposed to say a flag or even a light that wont catch lots of wind.

PS:Each numeral for rebar is 1/8 of an inch ie: #4=1/2" rod.

Last edited by JimT; Thu Jan 30 2014 08:58 AM.
Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: Signs&Neons] #509691
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:43 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:43 AM
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Posts: 295
Alva, Ok.
Jay Leeper Offline
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It would probably work but seems over complicated. The bolts need to be much longer, sitting on a flat bar they could twist. Just lay post on the side, bolt in long bolts into the base. And weld rebar around it in a couple spots. That way you know there's no way of screwing up the mounting pattern and it will fit when you stand up. Also as has been said leave bolts long enough to put nuts underneath. then just remove from base and wire the cage to your other rebar in the hole.

pole.jpg
Last edited by Jay Leeper; Thu Jan 30 2014 08:45 AM.

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Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: JimT] #509692
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:50 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:50 AM
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Florida
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Boxcar Offline OP
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Great info there...thanks...yep I was talking #8 rebar then.

I'm out in the country so there's no permit for the sign post required...But I don't ever use that as an oppourtunity to half ***** either.

The base will be out by itself with no connnecting concrete.

I'd expect the pour to be in the neighborhood of a 4' x 4' x 3' deep square as a guess. Won't be using it for any other desplay purposes. Plan on keeping my pumps under my patio to be seen but under cover from the elements.

Thanks for details

Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: JimT] #509693
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:56 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:56 AM
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Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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Originally Posted By: Boxcar
....would be cheaper than all thread and a welded connection.....

AMAZING! Your erecting a pole that can cause untold damage & your looking for something Cheaper. Trying to save what $20-$100?

Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: Jay Leeper] #509694
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:59 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 08:59 AM
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Florida
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Boxcar Offline OP
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Exellent...less pain.
I like your idea of using the pole to fab up from....then no surprizes. Time to find some mega bolts! I'll take your game plan and tie it into a good #8 rebar box arrangement. If I can find some regular black iron bolts I could weld it (tie it) into the rebar cage. Galvanised is not preferred...weld wont stick.

thanks

Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: Dick Bennett] #509695
Thu Jan 30 2014 09:02 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 09:02 AM
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Florida
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Boxcar Offline OP
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Easy Greasy....let's not get swept away in the drama. This is still conceptual. The O-rings have not been placed in the Shuttle just yet!

Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: Boxcar] #509696
Thu Jan 30 2014 09:02 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 09:02 AM
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Peoria, IL
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take some pictures! i have seen a few of these threads now, but havent yet seen any follow-up done... as far as what went well and what didnt and tips for people in the future. add some pictures for reference. i know it would be much appreciated by me, as I plan to do this with a pole sign within the next 3 years.


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Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: Dick Bennett] #509698
Thu Jan 30 2014 09:04 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 09:04 AM
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Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
JimT Offline
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We usually make a template out of plywood, then bolt the bolts to the plywood with the proper bolt projection,nut on top and bottom of plywood. you need them anyway, then simply slide the bolts into the concrete. You can also drill a hole in the center to keep your conduit in place if your using it. Then when the concrete tightens up, we just take the plywood off and finish the concrete around the bolts. If your going with that wide of a footer and square, you can probably just place the rod in as you fill the hole.

Last edited by JimT; Thu Jan 30 2014 09:16 AM.
Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: BryceG] #509699
Thu Jan 30 2014 09:04 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 09:04 AM
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Will do....

Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: Boxcar] #509745
Thu Jan 30 2014 11:34 AM
Thu Jan 30 2014 11:34 AM
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Fredericktown Missouri
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I bought 7/8 dia x 16 long hardened u bolts , cut the u bolts in half at the top where they make the 90 deg bend . Bolt them to the sign post , once they are bolted solid in place , weld them all into a solid frame fixture . Once you pour your box form or pad just center , the fixture and push it in place , level it and your done. I did this on both my sign poles . I also double nut them so you can level it out as mentioned by the others.

image.jpg
Last edited by 47reotravis; Thu Jan 30 2014 11:38 AM.

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Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: 47reo-travis] #509756
Thu Jan 30 2014 12:35 PM
Thu Jan 30 2014 12:35 PM
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Bunker Hill, WV,USA
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My local concrete supply shop worked up everything I needed for me, sold me everything I needed and even formed the cage out of rebar for me. Only thing I needed to do was make the template for the anchor bolts. I ran PVC for wiring. I was also told to never use solid wire for the wiring, only use a braided style wire since the sign will flex when it is windy. I cannot remember what gauge I used. I was also told that the hole should be 4' deep in my part of the country. Brady

Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: 1PetroFan] #509836
Thu Jan 30 2014 05:46 PM
Thu Jan 30 2014 05:46 PM
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I got out today and removed the lamps on top of the sign post I bought. Scary stuff climbing that ladder and working at 18 feet up. Safetied the ladder to the pole with some ratchet straps and that made it much steadier. These two lamps are from the mid 50s to early 60's from what I can find on them. Revere Elect Co. Chicago, IL. Lamp face is 19 in Dia and the Shade is 15 in deep, bracket is 9 in and can be adjusted as required. Glass on 1 is perfect..no chips...prism ridges on the inside..the other has a bb hole near the center..I did find the intact chip inside if someone was to desire to glue it back into position. Inside of shade is buffed aluminum reflective. Application for a lamp like this would exceed sign illumination and would be more approporate for large area lighting like a Gas Station parking lot or display. I'll be selling these as they are outside of my small scale display plan.
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/rph4gg4ygihn1qb/uUhsblsin5
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Last edited by Boxcar; Thu Jan 30 2014 08:07 PM.
Re: Relocating an early sign post [Re: Boxcar] #510081
Fri Jan 31 2014 12:26 PM
Fri Jan 31 2014 12:26 PM
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Ontario Canada
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