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Fantasy sign that has been discussed on here before.
Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
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Thank you. What I have learned here is that I need to familiarize myself with all reproduction items just as much as I do the real items and not buy anything unless I can see and touch it in person. Otherwise, who would know the difference.
The amount of counterfeiting and misrepresentation of porcelain signs is just staggering. I would not be surprised even a little bit if the entire market for authentic items collapses due to most people not knowing what's real and what isn't. I hate to say it, but I feel like this becoming more of a reality every day.
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So at the risk of asking the obvious who got scalped? Or were we (the potential buyers) the ones to be scalped? In a PC world can I even ask this?
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WISH DB WAS HERE FOR THIS ONE. ME TOO.
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hmmm...post disappeared..
however scalp trader since you were "Hood" winked you can file a claim with eBay.
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Ask yourself... how would a station use a 8"x18" tire advertising sign? if you cant visualize it, then stay away. try to think of the HISTORY of these items... Having very little knowledge myself to authenticate an original sign, I asked myself the question you posed. The 1st answer that came to mind was that a station could use it on a column near a pump island. The problem is that I could visualize a sign of this size pretty much anywhere at a gas station, so I'm not sure how being able to visualize it helps to determine authenticity?
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When I think of tire signs... I think of tire stands, tire flange signs, hanging tire signs, tire signs on sides of buldings, etc. I can't picture any tire signs of this size and I cant picture them being manufactured just to be used on a column near a pump island.
maybe im not making any sense... but this is just one step I use in looking at any questionable sign.
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I hear what you are saying, and it makes sense. But I also think you are drawing on quite a bit of additional knowledge about tire-related advertisements that an inexperienced collector would not have. Even if I visualize a tire stand 40+ years ago, there is no memory I have that makes me think this 8x18 sign is a fantasy piece.
The bottom-line, unfortunately, is that if there is enough money to be made, a talented counterfeiter will find a way to make an aged reproduction that could fool many/most collectors.
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Bryce, even when you try to educate the simple thought pattern that goes into "Thinking thru the process of it being a questionable size sign" why do the buyers with "very little knowledge" question your first step?
OK newbies, I was one of you once so please listen to the people when they tell you that an item is fake. questions are ok but don't question the person's explanation of how he makes his first observation. Ask first then Listen and learn before hitting the BIN button. And if it's going for cheap there's likely a reason to that.
It has saved me lots of $$$$$$
Thanks
Mike
Always Looking for any Pure Oil and Sunoco Items.
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maybe im not making any sense... but this is just one step I use in looking at any questionable sign. It seems to me the problem has become that ALL signs are now "questionable" for many reasons that have been talked about almost daily on this site. Actual sale prices of items over the past 3 years supports this theory. They have come down and I believe they will continue to come down. Compare our collectibles to Red Wing brand (and similar) pottery and crocks. Prices were sky high, now you can hardly give them away. Same with tractor seats, hit and miss engines, sports memorabilia, etc. Prices are driven by demand. When a market is saturated with counterfeit items and crooks, the demand goes down and so does the price of authentic items. Just because a sign once sold for $1500, doesn't mean squat today. All collectibles are just things. Things which NOBODY NEEDS, but which they desire. Personally, I now avoid porcelain signs and petroliana in general for resale purposes. Don't get me wrong, I love the stuff and still want to buy what I can that's actually a deal, but it's become too volatile. I've became gun shy due to the scammers and repops marked/represented as originals being sold everywhere including here (this post as an example). As an ebay seller, I will openly admit that the majority of porcelain gas/oil signs I've sold have been at a loss. This is not because I'm buying them too high, but because the market for signs that are actually available and not in private collections has somewhat tanked and continues to do so. There is no room for the prices to go any higher and it is my opinion that the market has capped. Not to mention the "deals" have been dried up for some time now. In the past I have bought and sold them because I love them (who here doesn't), but they are not the items bringing any real profit in re-sale. Many of the old timers in the hobby may still think prices are high and yes -to you they are. But to the people who started collecting in the last 3-5 years, the prices are now lower, and they continue to fall because there is no more room to go up. Eventually, guys like the jersey boys will end up taking losses on most of their inventory unless they want to sit on it forever and ever. I question how they can continue. Most signs sit and sit. Some they sell and make some money, others are auctioned off because they need cash flow. Eventually, they will have sold everything but for what? Profit? At the end of the day I doubt it... Sad but True (in my opinion)
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Consider the source...do you buy electronics from a guy selling them out of the trunk of a beat up car in the parking lot of the liquor store?
Why would anyone that works hard for their money and has a few brain cells not do some homework?
The problem is greed; whether it's slimy e-Bay sellers, pickers and even inexperienced collectors wanting to make a quick buck.
No one should be collecting or selling beyond their expertise. Honest mistake or not...this should simply not be happening. If it was up to me...this member would be losing their privilege to sell items until they learn the difference between an original and a repop/fantasy sign. Very little homework required to determine this Hood Tires sign as a repop.
This kind of situations undermine and erode credibility...seller is going to wear this for some time. Even for e-Bay it started with just one fake item being listed and sold on e-Bay...look how big that problem has gotten today.
Last edited by Dave's Garage; Thu Sep 04 2014 12:32 PM.
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
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That's a ridiculous statement, all may be questionable to you because of many reasons but there a lot of folks on here and many more not on here that have a clue. Why would someone buy this POS in the first place, there have been a lot on Ebay and as said earlier this sign has been discussed. As to Red Wing in went down for the same reason Victorian furniture tanked. It's not relevant to current population. Gas and oil stuff is the exception. Signs from the 20's are still very popular and I'd venture that nobody on this site was around to see them originally. This market hasn't capped for quality pieces, it has only capped for people that don't have the intelligence to figure out what a fantasy sign is. As to sales records, look again, good quality items still bring large sums, common items for the most part have stayed the same. If you lose money buying and selling this stuff the it's a good idea to get out. I just bought a pile of stuff and I'll make money even though I only bought it to get a couple pieces in the collection. It's not rocket science, just common sense. maybe im not making any sense... but this is just one step I use in looking at any questionable sign. It seems to me the problem has become that ALL signs are now "questionable" for many reasons that have been talked about almost daily on this site. Actual sale prices of items over the past 3 years supports this theory. They have come down and I believe they will continue to come down. Compare our collectibles to Red Wing brand (and similar) pottery and crocks. Prices were sky high, now you can hardly give them away. Same with tractor seats, hit and miss engines, sports memorabilia, etc. Prices are driven by demand. When a market is saturated with counterfeit items and crooks, the demand goes down and so does the price of authentic items. Just because a sign once sold for $1500, doesn't mean squat today. All collectibles are just things. Things which NOBODY NEEDS, but which they desire. Personally, I now avoid porcelain signs and petroliana in general for resale purposes. Don't get me wrong, I love the stuff and still want to buy what I can that's actually a deal, but it's become too volatile. I've became gun shy due to the scammers and repops marked/represented as originals being sold everywhere including here (this post as an example). As an ebay seller, I will openly admit that the majority of porcelain gas/oil signs I've sold have been at a loss. This is not because I'm buying them too high, but because the market for signs that are actually available and not in private collections has somewhat tanked and continues to do so. There is no room for the prices to go any higher and it is my opinion that the market has capped. Not to mention the "deals" have been dried up for some time now. In the past I have bought and sold them because I love them (who here doesn't), but they are not the items bringing any real profit in re-sale. Many of the old timers in the hobby may still think prices are high and yes -to you they are. But to the people who started collecting in the last 3-5 years, the prices are now lower, and they continue to fall because there is no more room to go up. Eventually, guys like the jersey boys will end up taking losses on most of their inventory unless they want to sit on it forever and ever. I question how they can continue. Most signs sit and sit. Some they sell and make some money, others are auctioned off because they need cash flow. Eventually, they will have sold everything but for what? Profit? At the end of the day I doubt it... Sad but True (in my opinion)
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Bryce, even when you try to educate the simple thought pattern that goes into "Thinking thru the process of it being a questionable size sign" why do the buyers with "very little knowledge" question your first step? The goal of questioning is learning. How is this hobby going to continue if you don't want people questioning/learning? And to take that question a step further - what is going to happen when the guys with all of the knowledge have passed on? If you are hard on people for trying to learn, do you think that is going to promote growth of the hobby or just push people away?
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Jeff... without any tribal knowledge, my entire thought process would consist of something like this:
What color is the back?
Plain vibrant white is an immediate flag
Where are the porcelain chips, how do they look?
the chips appear to be placed intentionally. normal chipping near grommet holes are the result of a screw being torqued too tightly. those chips are obviously from blunt force multiple times.
How was this sign used?
As I mentioned before... not something I can 'imagine'
GOOGLE & OldGas Search?
what comes up in a quick search
More thorough search:
Books and literature, have you ever seen this sign?
Do all of that every time you come across a questionable sign and you will most likely come to the right result
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